GETTING INTO IT QUESTIONS

[Lynxpilot]

I like to go into projects full-speed, so needless to say my projects can be expensive. If I start to home brew, in a perfect world, I'd like to have the gear I'll use to the bitter end. Leads to question,

1. Is top-notch gear re-sellable without losing excessive value? May sound morbid, but if I invest a significant amount in gear, can my wife sell it for a decent amount if I'm no longer around? Essentially estate value.

2. Unrelated, but is the process appropriate to do on a patio if equipment is covered from weather during non-use?

Hope these questions aren't too retarded

 

[Barbarossa]

First of all, the gear you buy is an investment that will help you save on beer. Make sure she believes that.

 

[hotbeer]

1) To re-sell it you have to find a buyer. How likely is it your estate will be able to find the few buyers that will want to pay top dollar. It's likely to go for pennies on the dollar at your estate sale.

2) Depends on what you get. I just do small batches on the stove top. The only equipment specifically bought for making beer so far comes in at way less than $100 USD.

All IMO. I have friends that enjoy the equipment and complication they go through more so than the beer they make. And that's okay with me. I just like the KISS methods.

 

[cmac62]

Somehow, I doubt any brewer is still brewing on the first system 5 or 10 years in. I've upgraded once and down graded once. But, to answer your questions:

1. No, the top end stuff is always a money looser on the resale. If your in So Cal I have a great system for sale. LOL.
2. Yes the patio is an appropriate place to brew, but it depends on what you use and have if its okay to store outside.

My first brew rig was a turkey fryer burner, a large pot and a igloo cooler mash tun, it works great and keeps temp easily. My second rig was a big shiny thing with bells and whistles (currently for sale). My third rig is an Anvil Foundry 10.5, This is a all-in-one system that does Brew in a bag (BIAB), but in this case it is a basket. If I was starting over I would seriously consider on of the all in ones from the start. It is simple, precise and if you want to expand your hobby you can attach a still to the top. Good luck

 

[Transamguy77]

To answer your first question I don’t think anything in Homebrewing really holds it’s value. And whatever you start with I would expect you‘ll grow out of or you’ll find a different way that woks better for you as you progress.

And it depends on what gear your keeping outside on your patio, brewing out there will be great! At one house I lived at I kept my stand outside for weeks at a time with no worries. I’ve seen guys here with outside cabinets to keep their gear in so it’s easily accessible on brew day.

 

[bracconiere]

hmmm...i spent $600 on brewing equipment in ~2002...still using it with maintence....i doubt my 15 gallon pot, and 10 gallon cooler are worth as much as they were new...but they still come in handy, about once a week, when i realize... i have two empty kegs that need some love in them!

(and no don't want to talk about stuff like the $200 upgrade to a 20lb co2 cylinder, kegs. wtf ever else, that's why i said maintence!)

 

[camonick]

1. Is top-notch gear re-sellable without losing excessive value? May sound morbid, but if I invest a significant amount in gear, can my wife sell it for a decent amount if I'm no longer around? Essentially estate value.

 

[grampamark]

View attachment 727430

@camonick wins the Internet today.

 

[Jim R]

The worst first step in homebrewing is to throw money at it before you have a very good understanding of the whole process. Homebrewing also has nothing to do with "investing." I also wouldn't depend much on what I read on an internet forum although that can be interesting.

The best first step is to thoroughly read and study John Palmer's book (the bible) before you spend a nickel. Reading that and a couple other supplemental books would save you a lot of money and frustration (not to mention your wife's money and frustration).

 

[TheBluePhantom]

There are always ads on Craigslist and the like, somebody getting out of brewing. Usually just a starter kit, but sometimes a really fancy setup. Many want near full price. They don't move well. Plan on losing, sorry. I am planning on my kid inheriting, that is how I got 3 carboys (dad) and a bench capper (originally grandfathers).

I went big when I started, All grain, 10 gallon, big burner. I find that I am happier doing 5 gallon batches, more variety. I also tend to do stovetop in the winter, which is slow. So I do extract mostly, or partial mash to save time. So my brew equipment is much less than I started with. A simple system is easy to clean and move.

The keezer on the other hand, the original was small, only 3 kegs. I like to keep sodas for the kids, meads, ciders, and beer all at once. That got bigger when the original cheap one died at two years old.

 

[Nate R]

(and no don't want to talk about stuff like the $200 upgrade to a 20lb co2 cylinder, kegs. wtf ever else, that's why i said maintence!)

Braccy... what about your shiny sexy new Milwakee digital refractometer?!?!

 

[Nate R]

I like to go into projects full-speed, so needless to say my projects can be expensive. If I start to home brew, in a perfect world, I'd like to have the gear I'll use to the bitter end. Leads to question,

1. Is top-notch gear re-sellable without losing excessive value? May sound morbid, but if I invest a significant amount in gear, can my wife sell it for a decent amount if I'm no longer around? Essentially estate value.

2. Unrelated, but is the process appropriate to do on a patio if equipment is covered from weather during non-use?

Hope these questions aren't too retarded

Based on the above... maybe focus on a used gear for your first purchase?

Also... +1 to the all-in-one! Best of both worlds in my opinion.

 

[bracconiere]

Braccy... what about your shiny sexy new Milwakee digital refractometer?!?!

Maintenance! lol, the cheap-o $30 optical one broke on me after a week!

 

[bracconiere]

at 13.9g's a beer, you do the math and compare that to what i'd be spending on BMC!

 

[madscientist451]

You can get started brewing all grain BIAB on your kitchen stove for about $100. Brew a few beers, see if you like it, if not sell everything on craigslist for $50.

 

[GoodTruble]

You can get started brewing all grain BIAB on your kitchen stove for about $100. Brew a few beers, see if you like it, if not sell everything on craigslist for $50.

This!!

Brew 4-5 times (at least) on cheap equipment first (and learn the basic lessons/skills in the process). Figure out how much you enjoy it, and which parts you like/dislike most. THEN plan out your purchases around the parts you like and minimizing the parts you dislike.

 

[IslandLizard]

Why do you want to brew?

From your first thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/hello-from-savannah-ga.692093/
We learned (my emphasis):

My fav beer is Shiner Bock.

None to be found in Savannah that I know of. I probably wouldn't have considered home brew if I had a reliable supply. I do, however, tend to get hooked on DIY stuff. Sounds like fun and probably really gratifying to make a good batch. Maybe find a partner or two to share the burden.

I like sophisticated gadgetry that helps attain consistent results without becoming a full-time job. So far, I was swaying toward Clawhammer 10 gallon 240v controlled mash system and Grainfather controlled fermenter/chiller combo. Big investment, but that's why I'm here.

Also don't care to go on the cheap for a questionable beginner system as that would just be an additional expense in the long run. That's just me.

Shiner Bock is not an easy beer to replicate, but you could homebrew something that's similar and possibly better, if you stick to it, improving your processes with each batch you brew.
It's not equipment that brews your beer, it's you, perfecting your brewing processes to make the best beer you can.

 

[IslandLizard]

As was mentioned in your first thread, an all grain BIAB process can make the right wort.

You need a way to control your ferm temps.
Shiner Bock is a Lager, and should be fermented with lager yeast at low temps (50-55F). Then it needs to be stored (ice) cold for a few weeks to clarify and become nice and crisp.
Bottling can be done, but can become a bit of a chore after a while, bottling 2 cases for each 5 gallon batch.
Kegging would be easier, but requires additional investments in that kind of equipment. If you want to go that way, start looking on Craigslist and such for the pieces needed to put that together.

But first you need to make sure you:
a) like homebrewing enough to continue after 2 or 3 batches.
b) want to stick to it to learn and perfect your processes.
c) don't give up too quickly, and take time to detect and learn from your errors (we still make them, even after 10-15 years).
d) as you mentioned yourself, maybe find a buddy or 2 to brew with, best if one is a (home)brewer already.

I'm saying this, because I've met many people who love to learn to brew beer (oh wow, yeah, sure!). But after the first batch find it too much work, dedication, complex, math, tinkering. A brew day is easily 6 hours.

If you haven't brewed yet or attended a homebrew session or class, coming up Saturday is May 1, Big Brew! Even during the pandemic, efforts are made for people to brew that day, big time! Usually hosted by LHBSs, homebrew clubs, etc. Maybe there's one in your area. That would be a good opportunity to check it out.
But above all: be safe!

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/aha-events/national-homebrew-day/

 

[Noob_Brewer]

So, for context, Ive been brewing for about 1 1/4years (first batch was jan 2020). But I was planning my home brewery for about a year before I started diving in. Everyone's goals are different so I will just tell you mine and why I went the route I did. In my head, I partitioned the different components of a home brewery into four parts that anyone should consider IMHO:
1) hot side brewery - do you want to do BIAB, 3Vessel HERMS? How do you "think" you want to make your wort? This is the component where I see LOTS of people focusing their attention mores than the other components.
2) fermentation (cold side) systems - fancy conicals with glycol vs simple carboy in swamp cooler or fermentation chamber?
3) packaging your beer, - do you want to bottle or keg? Bottling is cheaper, but some people get tired and switch to kegging which can be expensive to make a kegerator/keezer etc.
4) accessories to measure/manage the brew processes (hydrometers, thermometers, pH meters, stir plates, etc). This category is the "unanticipated" component of expenses IMHO that can add up big time but are very important.

My goals were to be able to be a "garage brewer" nearly exclusively. The ONLY things I do in my house are making my yeast starters and storing my grains. Everything else: making the wort, fermentation, packaging into kegs and serving out of keezer are in my garage. I also embraced the concepts of both temperature control (hot side and cold side) and minimizing oxygen (cold side). Im not a LODO brewer but minimizing oxygen was important to me. when you are planning, I think most people underestimate the expenses coming from all 4 of these categories. Personally, I went with:

Category 1: Anvil 10.5 AIO to make wort. got a nice CUSS 75' immersion chiller too for this which is nice. paid for a 20amp, 240V outlet by a licensed electrician, etc.
Category 2: I use fermonsters in minifridges with heat mats and do closed transfers to kegs. (see my signature for details on fermentation control - I itemized parts list too).
Category 3: Kegs/Keezer - Ive actually spent the MOST money in this category because...well this is where your investment goes! Plus it was fun building my 6 tap keezer. Obviously if you don't mind bottling it would be much cheaper here, but out of all the people I talked to and info from here, I decided to go with the keg/keezer route. The keezer is a fun DIY project too BTW!
Category 4: There's lots in this category and these parts are very important but the costs do add up and unfortunately. Thermapen, Hydrometer, pH meter (not required but I like measuring stuff!), stir plate and flasks to make and overbuild my starters etc.

So to get back to your specific question, it seems you are referring mostly to category 1, but this is just ONE component. IMHO, no use spending tons of $$$ on a bitchin system if the other three categories are not covered well. I went with the Anvil foundry AIO because its VERY flexible IMO in adding modifications as I see fit. I also wasn't sure just HOW i wanted to brew being a new brewer. After a year of brewing on it, I made some modifications to it as Ive started making my own preferences on how I want to brew on the hot side.

So these are some things for you to consider. I intentionally didn't answer your resale value question, because that simply wasn't my goal getting started. I wanted to get into brewing to have a hobby i'd enjoy and as my kids are getting older and more expensive, this was my last chance to "do it right" for how I wanted to begin the hobby. Im happy I did it this way.

Good Luck!

 

[jrgtr42]

I got a basic starter set to get going with, plus a couple extra things. Much of that original kit I still use, though some has been retired. I got a Graniteware pot to use as a kettle, and I still use it to heat strike and sparge water. I've gone from stovetop to propane turkey fryer burner to induction burner. I still have the burner and do occasionally use it for other outdoor cooking.
My point is, you don't have to go full top shelf for a first rig. In fact, |I'd probablr recommend seeing if there's a homebrew club near you, see if they are meeting now, and if you can drop in for a brew session with one or more of the members before investing in your own gear. This will a) give you an idea about how to brew, and b) see what they are using for equipment and how it might work for you.

 

[IslandLizard]

You can get started brewing all grain BIAB on your kitchen stove for about $100. Brew a few beers, see if you like it, if not sell everything on craigslist for $50.

Brew 4-5 times (at least) on cheap equipment first (and learn the basic lessons/skills in the process). Figure out how much you enjoy it, and which parts you like/dislike most. THEN plan out your purchases around the parts you like and minimizing the parts you dislike.

Those are good advice.^

You may be able to brew with things you have already, on the kitchen stove. You don't need to brew 5 gallons the first few times either, 2 gallons is a much better volume to start with to satisfy your interest and hone your skills.

I also recommend buying John Palmer's How to Brew, 4th Ed.

 

[jrgtr42]

I also recommend buying John Palmer's How to Brew, 4th Ed.

Absolutely this. The first edition is available online to read for free, but Palmer's updated several times, and modified his thinking on several methods.
Another book I highly recommend is Charlie Papazian's Complete Joy of Homebrewing. You may see people around here post the acronym, RDWHAHB. THis is from Papazian, mfeaning, Relax, Don't Worry, Have a HomeBrew.
Both books are very useful - Palmer is more of a scientific, by the numbers approach, and Papazian is more of a 'feel' guy. Both are completely valid.

 

[T Murph]

You have excellent advise offered here. Jim R and Island Lizard speak truth from experience. I suggest attending homebrew club meetings and finding some one who will let you participate in a few brews before making equipment purchases. Coming up this Saturday is national homebrew day. Search online to find a club or group that is brewing and attend with an open mind and controlled desires. You're gonna need control because for a beginner you tend to want the first things you see and learn.
Also there is a wealth of knowledge on line and in print that will help you along your journey. Move slowly as this hobby tends to dominate your thought processes. You will end up investing way more money than you think. I have a couple hundred bucks invested in books alone.
I also urge you to learn about fermentation before buying equipment. Fermentation processes and equipment are of the upmost importance IMHO. Wort is relatively easy to produce but converting wort into a delicious beer can be a delicate process.
Good luck and happy homebrewing.

 

[IslandLizard]

Fermentation processes and equipment are of the upmost importance IMHO.
Wort is relatively easy to produce but converting wort into a delicious beer can be a delicate process.

You nailed it!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

View attachment 727430

But if she gets more she'll think you were a f*#king genius!

 

[Lynxpilot]

John Palmer book arrives today

 

[Nate R]

Enjoy Palmer. I read a few books before jumping into this hobby (obsession?) Hobbsession?

Anyways... i always read the for sale section here... and you know what? I have a nickel's worth of free advice for you, below. To answer your original question.
Brewers make wort.
Yeast makes beer.

Wort is made on the "hot side"
Yeast make beer on the "cold side"

There are lots of great ways to make wort hot side. Extract, BIAB, all-in-one, 2 vessel, 3 vessels, rims, herms, gas, electric, etc... you will see all kinds of 'for sale' items up for sale. Shiny brew rigs and old coolers...
If it was me, i would spend less money here- wort is wort. A 3 vessel rig may make more effcient and better wort (at $6,000) or you might great wort with a 5 gallon pot on your stove and exract.
The great thing abiut hot side is it is easier to upgrade as you go.
(The one pot you bought to boil extract in can become your HLT on a 2 or 3 vessel rig. Etc. Etc.)

If you focus on cold side gear (stainless, pressurizeable so you can minimize oxygen) AND maintain an even temp (either by cooling or fitting your fermentor in a fridge) you will make, in my opinion, better beer. Or, more to the point- your yeast will thrive, be happier, and make you better beer.
Drop $30 on an oxygen kit, too.

And... to answer your question: watch the for sales thread here. Any time you see a Spike cf OR an SS Unitank up for sale, it will usually sell in under 24 hours.
But watch how many hot side items sit for sale- often with prices dropping over days or weeks.

So- budget 80% on your cold side, and you will be able to recoup about 75% or more of that in my opinion.

Enjoy that book!