Getting back into it. Need advice on equipment

[Rogue_Atom87]

Hey all.

First post here and hoping to get some guidance for getting back into home brew. About 3 years ago I started with the basic brewers best kit (ferment bucket and bottling bucket). I ran a few of the BB kits and had good success. Few bottle bombs but eventually turned out pretty well.

I have since started making home made sausage and modified a deep freezer as a curing chamber. Since I usually use UMAI bags which require refrigeration temps I now have a setup where I can create my own draft system. Before I start spending I could use some help with the below as I have been out of game for bit. I am trying to conserve costs as much as possible. As always any feedback greatly appreciated

My plan is to run two 2.5-3 gallon corney kegs

-With this setup white size CO2 tank would be sufficient
-I will probably stick with the LME kits to begin with. Not sure which brand I will use but most are 5 gallon. Is it possible to half it for quantities I want. I would rather not make 5 gallon batch then siphon 2.5 gallon down sink. If needed I will run two 5 gallon tanks if easier
-My initial fermenter was plastic bucket and worked fine. I see there are conical designs as well and not sure if those make a difference. I will say that since I have a 2 year old walking around in small town home I will have to store the bucket in my closet so moving 5 gallon up flight of stairs and down should be considered
-Is secondary fermenter necessary or can I just rack to the keg after fermentation is complete and let it sit in cooler until carbonation?
-Since making beer 3 years ago I have acquired a sous vide cooker and was planning to use that to have precise temp control I have seen some videos of BIAB with success. What thoughts about using LME and a sous vide cooker. Do you think would thin down enough to work?
-My keezer/kergerator/sausage chamber is outside so need good taps that wont corrode. Also would like to have caps to put over the spout to prevent bugs from crawling in (I mistakenly left drain plug out during a sausage batch and opened up 3 days later after fermenting. Was not a good sight)
-What are the best recipe kits out now? I like BB when I got them as it had the yeast with it. NB you have to select yeast and other items which I am unsure of. I prefer IPA's and Citrus beers.

Again your help would be greatly appreciated

 

[NSMikeD]

I have been making 2.5 gal batches for some time now.

1, CO2, I have a 5 gal and last about a year. I do, however, prime my kegs (I do purge with CO2) and let them age before tapping.

2. I half 5 gal kits all the time. I do plug them into Beersmith and keep DME on hand, but hardly need to tweak them. Not my preference, but I have a well meaning family who likes to gift me the kits.

3. I use the brew demon 3 gal plastic fermentor. I have a good bucket I made but rarely use it now. While lots of folks make great beer in a bucket fermentor the conical does two things. First, for some reason, the design leads to a circulation during the active fermentation. Cool to watch, but I understand there are benefits to this motion. Secondly, the design makes separating the beer from the trub when you keg. The brew demon is $45 and cheap plastic, but I love it.

4. Unless you are lagering , 99% of your beers will do great primary to keg (see my first post about my desire to prime and age in the kegs). I use torpedo 2.5 gal kegs. I have one on tap right one, another sitting in my fermentor (mini keg on a temperature controller) and an empty waiting anxiously for the Anvil Foundry to arrive.

5. Not sure what the advantage of sous vide on a an extract brew would help. Temperature control is a mash issue. Extract kits (assume you mean Light Malt Extract) are already mashed so you only need to boil. Sous vide, on the other hand, from what I have read and seen, can be great for mashing all grain brews.

as for recipes, I prefer to plug online ones into Beersmith, tweek them and sent the shopping list to my supply store. Not only here but sites like BYO. BYO is good in that I enjoy reading up on he beer style, they give good "how to" tips and provide recipes in both extract and grain methods.

One plus for putting the kits in BeerSmith is that I can use the recipe for future brews, tweaking it for my set up and taste.

For IPAs and Citrus (and pretty most American ales) you are good with Safale 05 yeast. It's a reliable dry yeast. I used to use 1/2 packets (for 2.5 gals) and then got lazy and just added the whole thing without any noticeable difference. Easy peasy.

 

[eric19312]

Welcome back @Rogue_Atom87 and congrats on the new assistant brewer

For your setup I think you will do fine with a 5# CO2 tank. Larger is a nice to have especially if you start doing pressure transfers but 5# will do fine.
I see LoveToBrew is offering 2.5 gallon extract kits. I'd not worry about fact that that a vendor lets you pick the yeast, picking the yeast is part of the fun and those BB kits that were packaged with the yeast always make me wonder about the freshness of the yeast.
A five gallon bucket is going to be be fine for 2.5 gallon batches.
I'd stick with the 5 gallon bucket while you research fermentors. Since you will be kegging when you do upgrade your fermentor I'd look for something that works well for closed transfers. These prevent your beer getting exposed to oxygen between the fermentor and the keg. No need to mess with secondary fermentors.
Not sure how you would use the sous vide in context of extract brewing. Maybe but you do need ability to boil and I don't think sous vide can do that. Some people use them for controlling temp of mash but until you go all grain I don't see the application.

Have fun and take your time on purchases. The research and considering options is part of the fun and you may decide in a couple more batches to change your brewing style - building your own recipes or switching to all grain brewing for example.

 

[LittleRiver]

...run two 2.5-3 gallon corney kegs....With this setup white size CO2 tank would be sufficient

5lb bottle will last you a long time with two small kegs. That's the smallest size my local gas supplier will exchange (they don't do fills).

... LME kits...5 gallon. Is it possible to half it....

Yes, that will work.

...If needed I will run two 5 gallon tanks if easier...

I'm assuming you mean kegs. I find 5 gal to be a good batch size, plus its the most common size for recipes. Keep in mind you can use a 5-6gal fermenter, then split the batch between two 2.5-3 gal kegs.

My initial fermenter was plastic bucket and worked fine. ... moving 5 gallon up flight of stairs and down should be considered

Buckets will work fine. I prefer clear PET fermenters (Big Mouth Bubbler, Fermonster, etc.). The clear material lets me see how the fermentation is progressing, when the krausen has fallen, etc. Also, they're easy to clean and they don't break. During fermentation keep them in a dark place, or cover them with something.

Is secondary fermenter necessary...

Secondaries have almost completely fallen out of favor. In general they're not recommended.

Since making beer 3 years ago I have acquired a sous vide cooker and was planning to use that to have precise temp control I have seen some videos of BIAB with success. What thoughts about using LME and a sous vide cooker. Do you think would thin down enough to work?

Regarding the sous vide unit, I've seen reports of some folks using them for small batch BIAB, with mixed success.

My keezer/kergerator/sausage chamber is outside so need good taps that wont corrode. Also would like to have caps to put over the spout...

Beer faucets these days use a forward sealing mechanism, that is different and much better than the old style piston faucets. Shop for forward sealing stainless steel faucets. Intertap is probably going to be the least expensive. I have four of them and they work great.

For your lines, use EVABarrier tubing, with push-to-connect fittings. That type of tubing gives you much better protection from oxidation. Push-to-connect fittings are great -- so much better than barbs, clamps, etc.

Places that sell beer faucets will have caps for them.

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

Thanks.

I will move forward with the bucket or brew demon NS mentioned. will do research over next few weeks on best taps and equipment for outside operation.

I have never used beer smith but willing to take a look. Does it have pre loaded recipes in it that you choose from and just select number of gallons? When purchasing 5 gallon recipe kits do you just half the extract and leave everything else same or half quantities of everything if doing 2.5 gal batch.

Sous vide was basically for that initial step if I remember right of steeping grains around 150* for 20-30min. Not sure how critical temperature control is for this step. When I get into all grain brew I will use sous vide for the control

 

[eric19312]

Steeping grain temperature is not critical to control. Not doing any enzyme based conversion of starch to sugar just making tea.

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

Been researching a little last few hours. and stuck between bucket and conical fermenter. Does head space matter when fermenting? Wondering if I got a 7 gallon conical and only did 2.5 gallon batches if it would matter.

Looking at the following
Brewdemon
fast ferment
fermzilla
BB bucket - Had previous
Any others worth looking at?

Going through closet I still have auto siphon, bung for carboy, 3 piece airlock, gravity reader, various other equipment from moonshine days. Found local guy selling corney kegs for $20 pop but are 5 gallon. Pretty good price and even if have to replace o-ring would be worth it. Would it be acceptable to do a 2.5 gallon batch in 5 gallon Keg? I dont see why not just different steps to purge out the air etc at the beginning.

 

[AJinJacksonville]

You could keg any amount of beer less than 5 gallons in there, but like one of the responses indicated, you're using additional CO2 to fill all that dead space. Not a big deal, but you'll be paying for more CO2 than if you had a smaller corny keg (assuming you don't intend to start doing 5 gallon batches). Also, if you start doing closed transfers using CO2, even with the smaller keg, you may want to make the initial investment in maybe a 10 lb CO2 canister.

Let me know who the local guy is that's selling for $20 a keg if you end up not going that route.

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

Man this is already addicting getting back into it. Hopefully work doesnt look at search history for last two days because they will think I have drinking problem.

One question I had was I see people not wanting to get oxygen into beer. At what stage is this important? From kettle to fermentor, fermentor to bottling bucket or keg.. etc.

I plan on doing 2.5 gallon batches. Reason is I am only one in house drink beer and also will allow me to empty keg sooner which means I can brew more. I went container I had put in back of closest from three years ago and still have two 3 piece air lock, 2 gravity scale, 1 tralle, proof scale from moonshine days, tri clamp with gasket.

So far I plan on following:
(2) 5 gallon ball lock kegs.
5-10 lb co2 tank. Will try for 10lb since I will need more in only filling keg with 2.5gal
(2) intertap faucet with 3.5-4in shank. The interior of the collar on my sausage chamber has insulation board around it. Plan on getting the different tips just to have
(1) two way manifold. I figured I would run both kegs off same PSI so no need to get dual regulator
(1) dual gauge regulator. Is the second gauge showing co2 level accurate? If not I will go with single gauge
Auto-siphon
Tap tool
Tubing

The only thing I am stuck on is what fermenter to get. Since I plan on having two batches at once I will need two fermenters. I plan on one atleast being the good old plastic bucket to keep costs down. The other cant decide between another plastic bucket, Anvil 7.5 gal, or a conical design. IF the importance of keeping O2 out during ferment to keg I imagine need to get one with a spout. On the plastic buckets do these leak frequently?


Anything missing or recommendations please share.

Thanks

 

[AJinJacksonville]

I pretty much stick with buckets for fermenting. Replace if/when they get scratched on the inside, or when they start showing age.

I'd get a three or four way CO2 manifold. Just for if/when you get a third or fourth keg. For any kind of pressure transfers, purging, etc. IMHO, it's better to have an extra one or two outlets for CO2 tubing if you decide to expand.

 

[LittleRiver]

... I see people not wanting to get oxygen into beer. At what stage is this important? From kettle to fermentor, fermentor to bottling bucket or keg.. etc....

You're going to find opinions on this that run the gamut. On the extreme end (which they do not see as extreme) it is critical at every step. A more moderate position is to limit oxygen exposure after the beer is fermented. This means purging the keg of oxygen, then doing a closed transfer between fermenter and keg.

Some folks do their purges with bottled CO2, others let the gas produced by fermentation purge the keg. Some power the transfer with bottled CO2, others use gravity.

The capability to do closed transfers should influence your fermenter selection. It doesn't have to be complicated or expensive, a drain valve on a PET fermenter will work just fine for a gravity powered closed transfer.



The first photo shows a PET fermenter that has two bungs on top. One is a thermowell for the temp probe of the controller used to turn the mini fridge on/off. The second bung has one tube that goes to the keg "beer" port, and a second tube that goes to a mylar balloon. During the first day or two of fermentation the tube going to the balloon is clamped off, and the balloon is empty (rolled flat). That gives time for fermentation to purge the headspace of the fermenter. After that the balloon tube clamp is opened, allowing the balloon to fill with fermentation gas. When fermentation is complete, the beer is cold crashed (high 30'sF for a few days) to help it clear. The beer will shrink in volume, pulling gas back in from the balloon. Without the balloon, air (oxygen) would be pulled into the system through the airlock.

The second photo shows an air lock on the "gas" port of the keg. The "beer" port is connected to the top of the fermenter. Fermentation gas purging works really well. HomebrewTalk contributor and moderator @doug293cz has calculated that the resulting O2 concentration is about 5 parts per billion.

The third photo shows a gravity powered closed transfer. The fermenter spigot is connected to the keg "beer" port, and the keg "gas" port is connected to the top of the fermenter.

Closed transfers make a big difference in the longevity of flavors and aromas.

 

[bwible]

I’ve been brewing 3 gallon batches for years. Because I’m the only one drinking it. 3 gallons is about 32 beers at 12oz each. I just call it a case plus a 6 pack if you bottle.

1. You get away with a smaller brewpot, and if you want to go all grain, a smaller mash tun.

2. Everything is easier to handle, which is getting more important for me since I’ll be north of 60 soon.

I use a 5 gallon carboy for a primary fermenter and a 3 gallon carboy for a secondary. Better Bottle makes lightweight plastic carboys if you don’t want glass with the kids. Or look at the Fermonster. I have one of those for the wide mouth opening that makes it easy to dry hop. Head space is less important in the primary. If you secondary, you should leave as little head space as possible.

Many here will say they don’t secondary or a secondary is not necessary. I prefer to think of it as a settling or bright tank, which many breweries do use. Another opportunity for yeast and stuff to settle out. I pretty much secondary everything. Thats the thing with this hobby - to each his own.

A 5lb CO2 cylinder lasts a long time.

I have 4 or 5 of the 3 gallon kegs. They are hard to find used now and usually expensive when you run across them. You can usually buy new 5 gallon kegs cheaper than 3 gallon kegs. I have a 2 tap kegerator set up for ball lock kegs. This gives me about 64 beers at 12 oz each with 2 full kegs. Plus I have a beer fridge and I still buy beer. Like I just bought some Festbier being that time of the year. So I don’t see a need for me to brew 5 gallons ever again unless I were to brew for a club event or a wedding or something.

You want to get some brewing software that you like and works for you. I have a mac and I’ve been using BeerTools for years. There are more options if you have a PC. Whatever you get you’ll have to tweak the program settings for your brewing system as far as efficiency and things like that. Then you can make your own recipes and get away from kits. If you want a good book for recipe design get a copy of Ray Daniels’ “Designing Great Beers”. I had to buy a second copy because I destroyed my first copy just from use. Its a great book.

 

[eric19312]

So far I plan on following:
(2) 5 gallon ball lock kegs.
5-10 lb co2 tank. Will try for 10lb since I will need more in only filling keg with 2.5gal
(2) intertap faucet with 3.5-4in shank. The interior of the collar on my sausage chamber has insulation board around it. Plan on getting the different tips just to have
(1) two way manifold. I figured I would run both kegs off same PSI so no need to get dual regulator
(1) dual gauge regulator. Is the second gauge showing co2 level accurate? If not I will go with single gauge
Auto-siphon
Tap tool
Tubing

On the tubing. I'd recommend going with EVA Barrier and duo-tite fittings. Get male flare fittings on your manifold and regulator to use with the duo tight fittings. Use the EVA barrier tubing on gas and beer sides. 4mm ID is fine.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/evabarriertubing4mm55.htmhttps://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/pushffl.htmhttps://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/pushshank.htm
Honestly I started with barbs and tees and pvc bevlex tubing and then tried this stuff and then ripped all the old out and replaced everything with this stuff. So easy to work with. There are other suppliers with a couple different names but I think it is all compatible.

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

So I am leaning towards a Speidel. For space wise need the 5.3 gallon.

i would like to make it so can do low pressure closed transfers. Have seen a lot of accessories that allows this but not an adapter that allows for air lock and a gas port. Want to re do spigot to a ball valve. Do you have to use stainless or will brass one from home depot work?

also is there enough space between spigot and bottom for trub to settle?

I plan to buy plenty of extra caps and o rings for the modifications

 

[eric19312]

So I am leaning towards a Speidel. For space wise need the 5.3 gallon.

i would like to make it so can do low pressure closed transfers. Have seen a lot of accessories that allows this but not an adapter that allows for air lock and a gas port. Want to re do spigot to a ball valve. Do you have to use stainless or will brass one from home depot work?

also is there enough space between spigot and bottom for trub to settle?

I plan to buy plenty of extra caps and o rings for the modifications

@Jaybird has a bunch of cool accessories for Speidel here is a gas in. Swap out the airlock for this guy when fermentation is almost done.
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions....l-Lock-Gas-In-with-Pressure-Relief-Valve.html
His dip tube is also pretty cool.

I'd go ahead and get a SS ball valve.

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

Saw those but a little pricey.

Here is the predicament I am in. By time I get the Speidel 5.3gal, SS valve, grommet attachment, 1.2" NPT adapter, spare caps and gaskets I am at $130

I can get the 4 gallon Anvil for $100 or 7 gallon for $130 and it appears they already have everything. How does the Speidel compare to these?

 

[eric19312]

I don't know if the Anvil will hold pressure. If money is tight not sure investing in the fermentor is best place to start. Honestly plastic buckets work really well when you are starting out.

Since you are getting into kegging why not try fermenting in kegs? Then if you decide to upgrade to a dedicated fermentor later you will still be able to use the kegs. Some people cut the diptube but I'd be inclined to try fermenting with a floating dip tube in the fermentation keg then do a closed transfer to a purged serving keg.

 

[Chetbrews]

I brew 2.5-3 gallon batches and have been using corny kegs to ferment in for the past 5 years. It has worked out great for me.

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

So going to pick up co2 tank tomorrow. Found Some used online for sale. Can get empty 10lb for $30 or full 20lb for $50. Would 20lb tank be overkill?

 

[NGD]

For the batch size your talking about, the tank will need to be hydrotested before you refill it again. A 20# tank should last years

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

Thanks NGD. My plan now is to mount tank outside keezer. Not really a big deal as will only have two kegs but this setup is also a sausage chamber and has two dehumidifiers inside so want to save space

20lb tank dimensions look like it may be too big. Ill probably go with 10 pound and mount on bracket attached to collar. The only thing I am unsure of is ambient conditions where Inlive. My keezer is on covered patio in Jacksonville FL. Would temp and humidity cause corrosion to regulator? I dont want torun high pressure to inside and then attach regulator

 

[Mtrhdltd]

$50 for a full 20 lbs tank? Where? Normally $150 I have 20 lbs tanks and love them. With the indoor grow craze exchanges are around $10, cheaper than the 5 lbs.

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

In St Augustine Florida. Guy was selling a 5, 10, and 20lb tank all for $100. The 5 and 20 were filled. I bought the 10lb only as the 20 would have been too big.

The plans for design have changed a little but. Due to space I am moving CO2 tank outside connected to dual regulator. One hose will stay outside to purge tanks and transfer from kettle. Other line will be connected to two way manifold inside and ran to kegs. Also I am going to stick to picnic taps for now. I am going to wait until the stealth bomber Nukatap are available.

So far I have acquired the following:
(3) 5lb Corny kegs. One will be used as fermenter
10lb CO2 tank
7gallon aluminum pot for kettle (pulled from my turkey fryer)
Stainless ball valve (for kettle)
dual regulator
5/16" Red Gas Hose

Still Need:
5/16" ID clear hose
(2) picnic taps
(4) gas ball lock. one for each of two kegs. one for secondary purge line off regulator. one that will be used for airlock (saw modification on this site)
(3) Liquid ball lock. One for each of two kegs. One for transfer from kettle to fermenter
2 way manifold
clamps
A few 1/4" barbs.
Star San
Large paddle for mixing

Let me know if I am missing anything.

 

[9Kegs]

I don't know if the Anvil will hold pressure. If money is tight not sure investing in the fermentor is best place to start. Honestly plastic buckets work really well when you are starting out.

Since you are getting into kegging why not try fermenting in kegs? Then if you decide to upgrade to a dedicated fermentor later you will still be able to use the kegs. Some people cut the diptube but I'd be inclined to try fermenting with a floating dip tube in the fermentation keg then do a closed transfer to a purged serving keg.

I have a couple of 15 gallon torpedo kegs with floating dip tubes that I ferment 10 gallon batches. Very easy to clean, spund, and transfer to serving kegs.

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

Had question on tubing. Since I am waiting on stealth bomber nukatap to release going with picnic tap for now. When I get the Nukatap I will be going with barrier tubing but for now going with cheap stuff. I noticed a lot of talk with beer sitting in these lines and causing off flavors. Here is what I am looking to get for now

kettle to fermenter 1/4” ID tube from Home Depot
Fermenter to Keg transfer 1/4” ID from Home Depot
Figured since wort or beer would be constantly moving the cheap stuff wouldnt matter
For picnic taps what would you recommend to use for time being? Need 3/16ID and plan to run 6’. Could always use cheap stuff and just dump first bit of pour

 

[eric19312]

This will work fine for your picnic tap:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/kegtubing14gas.htm
For kettle to the fermentor I'd go with larger ball valve if you can. 1/4 inch ID is going to be painful without pressure. Also I'm cringing at the idea of HD plastic probably vinyl tubing for the transfer. It's probably not worse for you health wise than the alcohol in the beer, but in addition to not being a food grade material I'd worry about possible flavor contributions. Food grade silicone tubing is the better choice. I'd go with 1/2 inch but you could probably do ok with this:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/siliconetubing38id.htmand attach your ball lock quick connects with this:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/fflbarb38.htm
If you must use the 1/4 inch ID tubing I'd still get the silicone for food safety and ability to clean and sanitize (including by boiling).

 

[Rogue_Atom87]

Thanks Eric

I actually have 1/2" barb on kettle valve so will run 1/2" ID into the corny keg fermenter.

My plan was to get the HD just for temporary to get this brew started but Amazon shipment of few items is delayed so I will go to home brew store this weekend to get correct tubing. I will get 1/2" for kettle to fermenter and 1/4" from fermenter to keg. My keg to keg ball lock are 1/4" barb as well as the gas ball lock I plan to make into an airlock. All others I ordered are the 1/4" MFL that will accomodate the duotight fittings as I will run evabarrier for Gas and beer line.

This is my temporary co2 line. I may keep this on one of the regulator outlets for a purging line and for pressurized transfer.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ZTGLCK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
One thing I do need is the fittings for manifold and regulator that have 1/4" MFL connections to swap out with Evabarrier when I set everything up. Having a hard time finding these. For now Co2 tank will go inside and ill just lay manifold somewhere until I get the taps in a few months and mount everything where I want. Still unsure if safe to mount co2 tank outside. Keezer is on covered patio in Florida so dont think it will be an issue but temps will get to around 90* where it sits. I would prefer to mount it outside but if it would be unsafe with those temps I will move some things around and keep it inside.

Today I drilled hole in aluminum turkey fryer pot to mount stainless valve. Cleaning the pot and getting the oil smell out was PIA. I was about 5 minutes away from just buying an Anvil Foundry but finally got everything cleaned. I used the opposite end of mash paddle to make markings on. I used sharpie as it would only be in wort for 5 sec so didnt think any would come off. Since I am planning on 2.5 gallon batches I filled pot with 3.5 gallon and brought to a boil (took 35min). I ran a boil for 60 min and my boil off was 3/4 gallon. I then drained everything with pot sitting level and where my valve is there is 5/16 of a gallon that sits below valve that wont transfer. This leaved me with roughly 2.5 gallons in fermenter. Question is when doing recipes do you base it off amount water going in fermenter or amount water before boil off. For me do I need to base off 3.5 or 2.5 gallon?

Lastly, instead of starting new thread my first brew is going to be the smashing pumpkin ale. I halved the ingredients since doing 2.5 gallon. I plan on doing two cans of pumpkin and was going to do a tablespoon of pumpkin spice as I read some reviews that it would provide more noticeable pumpkin flavors. let me know if this is too much.

Once this is done I want to do a NEIPA. Any recommendations on extract recipes would be great appreciated.
https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/smashing-pumpkin-ale-extract-kit