Gas in beer line

[TurnipGreen]

I’m still pretty new to kegging.
A pale ale I just kegged is getting some gas in the beer line.
I’m thinking it may be the tap? To clean it I just ran PBW then star sans trough the lines. Should I take it a part and thoroughly clean it?

could it also just need some time to settle and stabilize? I force carbed by shaking a few minutes at 35 psi the reducing down to serving pressure. There’s still a lot of pressure in the keg and I’ve only pulled 3 or 4 beers.
Or a wee tiny bit of hops in the poppet or disconnect? I sprayed star sans to look for bubbles and saw nothing.
Thanks for any help.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Could be the o-ring under the diptube on the serving side. That’s been known to introduce gas into the serving line if fouled or damaged.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Took apart and cleaned the dip tube and the tap. I didn’t see any damage to the o rings but replaced them anyway. Still the same problem.
I think it is on the keg side. I switched to an empty tap space on the fridge and same problem with that pour.
Could it be something with the poppet? Any simple fixes to that?

 

[bracconiere]

i've heard most people only shake at 30psi.....sounds like you've done this before so, i won't ask if your beer lines are balanced.....

is your fridge dead? warm beer? on that note, do you have a IR thermometer, what's your servering pressure, temp, and line size/length....

 

[TurnipGreen]

There’s only two kegs in there now and that are at 10 psi. The fridge and beer are cold.
The inside diameter is 1/4 inch and there’s about 6 feet of beer line.
I never sat down and did the math for balancing, but six feet and 9 psi has been pretty standard for me with out problems.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Umm... by chance look up the gas the to beer post and the beer line to the gas post?

 

[TurnipGreen]

Nope. Beer comes out, but there’s gas in there too. So it’s a half a glass of head. The beer is cold and carbonated well. I can see the gas bubbles as I pour. Then as it sits about a quarter of the line is gas or air, not sure but I assume it’s gas since I can’t find any leaks.

i think tomorrow I’ll take apart the poppet again. I’ll look really closely at the poppets and dip tube. Maybe swap the poppet that’s on the gas side with the beer side? I don’t have any extra poppets or o rings for poppets. If that fixes it I’ll just buy a few extra poppets and o rings.

Should I be lubing any of these parts?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Either your kegs are overcarbed or your system is out of balance. Either way it sounds like you're getting breakout in the line. That's a very wide short line, especially if your beer isn't like 30F and you've got normal carb. I run 15ft of 3/16 line in mine at 15 PSI.

 

[rjhoff]

I had a situation once where the dip tube o-ring was passing CO2 until I took it apart and greased the o-ring.

 

[TurnipGreen]

I can’t move down to 3/16 without buying all new serving hardware so I ran 20 feet of 1/4 id and I cut the gas to this keg. I have to give little surges to serve but I’m assuming it will eventually level out. It doesn’t seem over carbed other than all the head. So I’ll keep drinking half beer half foam for a few days to see if it levels out.
I did not switch the gas and beer posts today.
Thanks for the help so far.

 

[bracconiere]

There’s only two kegs in there now and that are at 10 psi. The fridge and beer are cold.
The inside diameter is 1/4 inch and there’s about 6 feet of beer line.
I never sat down and did the math for balancing, but six feet and 9 psi has been pretty standard for me with out problems.

i need 12-13'(i think, been a while), of 1/4" for my preferred 8psi.....


as a random thought, the lines are cold too?

 

[day_trippr]

You sure about that 1/4" ID? Because any legit calculator (of which I know of only one) would put the minimum length needed close to 40 feet!

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

You sure about that 1/4" ID? Because any legit calculator (of which I know of only one) would put the minimum length needed close to 40 feet!

View attachment 691400

Cheers!

off topic....but does the FG actually matter? i've never heard that before?

 

[TurnipGreen]

1/4 id printed on the side of the line and all. I’ve been getting away with about 6 feet for close to two years.
The other keg is doing fine with six feet and 9 psi. I imagine I’ll need to lengthen that one at some point to balance and the third (empty now) at some point.

 

[Qhrumphf]

You always need to have at least equilibrium pressure, and if drawing a lot of beer (bar or house party) a little bit above it. Having less pressure on the system than the carb level leads to line breakout, and foam. Classic noob bar error. "It's pouring foamy, lower the pressure".

 

[bracconiere]

Classic noob bar error. "It's pouring foamy, lower the pressure".

i did that for years....until i joined the morebeer forum....i also learned how to sparge slowly from them, yeah internet!

 

[TurnipGreen]

You always need to have at least equilibrium pressure, and if drawing a lot of beer (bar or house party) a little bit above it. Having less pressure on the system than the carb level leads to line breakout, and foam. Classic noob bar error. "It's pouring foamy, lower the pressure".

So, just leave it at 9 and keep
pouring foaming beer for a couple days? If it levels out I’m fine with that.
I’m following the logic that the keg is over carbed. Is there a better fix for an over carbed keg?

 

[bracconiere]

Is there a better fix for an over carbed keg?

repeated venting....

 

[Qhrumphf]

Perhaps, solely based on the way you carbed. However based on the line length and diameter you gave, it's more likely a system balance issue. There's no fix for that other than balancing the system. 6ft lines are never enough for carbonated beer.

 

[bracconiere]

i'm curious how you carb? sorry if i missed it, but it'll take a while at 9 psi...does it get foamier near the end of the keg?

 

[Qhrumphf]

The fastest way to decarb is big bubbles to nucleate out existing carb. Basically you'd depressurize the keg, blast high pressure CO2 through the liquid post, in a few solid bursts, let it stabilize for maybe 10 mins, blow the headspace back down, and repeat. It's terrible for the beer (all that gas blowing out takes aromatics with it), but it'll decarb fast.

 

[day_trippr]

off topic....but does the FG actually matter? i've never heard that before?

Wrt fluid dynamics, "Viscosity Matters". As a second-order effect, anyway...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

Wrt fluid dynamics, "Viscosity Matters". As a second-order effect, anyway...

Cheers!

makes sense, if line material matters.....

 

[day_trippr]

And that matters, too, as another 2nd order influence.
Biggest problem is it's less quantifiable than the other metrics. I have yet to find any data on EVAbarrier tubing, for example...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

And that matters, too, as another 2nd order influence.
Biggest problem is it's less quantifiable than the other metrics. I have yet to find any data on EVAbarrier tubing, for example...

Cheers!

i noticed with that calc, the difference between 1.012, and 1.000 was ~0.3 or so feet....


edit: and for the EVA tubing, when i'm calculating my metabolic rate for calorie counting i work in reverse....?

 

[Qhrumphf]

And that matters, too, as another 2nd order influence.
Biggest problem is it's less quantifiable than the other metrics. I have yet to find any data on EVAbarrier tubing, for example...

Cheers!

Pretty sure MicroMatic has the data. If you're willing to pay a few hundred $ and a full day sitting through their draft system training to get access to their database.

 

[day_trippr]

Hard pass

 

[bracconiere]

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Hom...ystem/532-EVABarrier-Beer-Tubing-39-foot-roll
says ~2.8 lbs a foot.....

 

[TurnipGreen]

i'm curious how you carb? sorry if i missed it, but it'll take a while at 9 psi...does it get foamier near the end of the keg?

I forced this keg. Setting the psi to around 35 and shaking the keg to hasten carbonation.
It’s worked for me in the past but I might’ve over done it this time.
I have not noticed a flavor difference in this and the set and forget method at all. But I never had to fight a set and forget keg.

 

[bracconiere]

I forced this keg. Setting the psi to around 35 and shaking the keg to hasten carbonation.
It’s worked for me in the past but I might’ve over done it this time.
I have not noticed a flavor difference in this and the set and forget method at all. But I never had to fight a set and forget keg.

damn now i remember that.....sorry, maybe the set and forget isn't fully carbed when you're serving it....i know with my 12' foot 1/4" line with set and forget, when the keg gets near it's end...it starts getting a bit more head then i like....