Funky after taste after 6 weeks in the bottle

[azazel1024]

So my very first brew I managed to screw up a lot of things. My 15 minute hop addition really boiled for closer to 25 and my 5 minute hop addition was closer to 10. I also didn't really aerate the wort before pitching.

Beyond that though, nothing serious in bottling.

After about 3 weeks the pale ale (brewer kit) was tasting fine. Nothing special, not great, but just fine. Fast forward another week or two and it went from fine to actually pretty decent. Another week or two, maybe roughly 6-7 weeks after bottling and it started tasting a little funky.

Now about 8 weeks in with only a bottle or two left it has a really wierd after taste. Its hard to describe, but almost a little like wet cardboard or maybe a slight rubber taste to it.

Any idea what could be going on with it? Nottingham yeast if that helps any, fermented at 73F (I know on the warm side) and a short primary and secondary. 4 days primary, 3 days secondary. Bottles stored at roughly the same 73F.

I ask in part because my 2nd beer, a Chicory Red Ale that I've been loving also seems to be changing flavor just a little. It could have simply been that I drank it after the Pale Ale last night, but I do feel like the hops aroma is getting...I don't know, stale? The red ale was also a brew kit, but I dry hopped it and added chicory to the secondary as well. It didn't really have the same off flavors though.

Its been in bottle for about 6 weeks now.

 

[AZBeerNut]

"Wet cardboard" and "stale," are words you used...... and both scream oxidation, bro...

Just Google "oxidation beer," and do some reading.

Here's a good Palmer link: http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

 

[Black Island Brewer]

"Wet cardboard" and "stale," are words you used...... and both scream oxidation, bro...

Just Google "oxidation beer," and do some reading.

Here's a good Palmer link: http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

^This^
One way to slow oxidized flavors is to keep your beer as cold as you can after it bottle conditions. It won't fix oxidation, but it will slow it once you have it. Then use the link above to start figuring out where in your process you're introducing too much oxygen. And drink fast!

 

[azazel1024]

Only thing I can think of is that with both I racked to the secondary. That and I wasn't super careful during bottling (IE when syphoning probably first half gallon or so "dropped" maybe 4" in to the vessels from the syphon as they were a little too low for the siphon to reach the bottom). I've been more careful in syphoning since then.

I would have thought that oxidation would have popped up sooner?

Should I maybe invest in oxygen absorbing caps?

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of options in storing it. In the winter time I have a better time with storage since my basement ranges closer to 65-67, but in the summer it is more like 72-76. No room in the fridge for more than maybe 12 beers at a time. I do have a minifridge I plan on hooking up soon, but that doesn't have a capacity of more than maybe 30-40.

 

[reverendj1]

I agree with the above, however, for your Chicory one, hop flavors/aromas do fade with time. Is that what you mean by stale? Also, beer in general will change flavors given time, as flavors meld, some come out, etc.

 

[the-crowing]

Only thing I can think of is that with both I racked to the secondary. That and I wasn't super careful during bottling (IE when syphoning probably first half gallon or so "dropped" maybe 4" in to the vessels from the syphon as they were a little too low for the siphon to reach the bottom). I've been more careful in syphoning since then.

I would have thought that oxidation would have popped up sooner?

Should I maybe invest in oxygen absorbing caps?

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of options in storing it. In the winter time I have a better time with storage since my basement ranges closer to 65-67, but in the summer it is more like 72-76. No room in the fridge for more than maybe 12 beers at a time. I do have a minifridge I plan on hooking up soon, but that doesn't have a capacity of more than maybe 30-40.

As far as I know the oxygen absorbing caps are used for keeping oxygen out of your bottles and not absorbing oxygen present in your beer.

Next time you rack a beer, keep the opening of your siphon tube as close to the bottom of the bucket/carboy as possible to prevent splashing. Once you have a couple of inches in fact level you can keep opening of the hose submerged to prevent splashing

 

[azazel1024]

Just seemed like the flavors and aroma were less intense. It wasn't unpleasant like the last couple of bottles of the pale ale have been.

It could have also been because it was 10:30 at night, I was tired and I still had a bit of the taste of the funked pale ale in my mouth even though I drank it more than an hour earlier.

Yeah, on my 3rd batch I picked up the trick of getting the siphon tube down in the bottle of the bucket/carboy. Since I store/bottle in my storage/laundry room I place the siphon container on the washer and the receiving vessel on the floor. The siphone tube is about 4-6 inches too short for this.

So I've changed it to placing the receiving vessel in my utility sink even though the head level is redcuded to only maybe 24 inches. It slows the siphon, but no splashing then. Once it is half done I can stick it on the floor for the rest.

Also with filling I've been perfecting filling the bottles while reducing splashing in the bottle. Part of the issue is the filling "pipette" wouldn't fit over the spigot for the bottling bucket and the siphon tube wouldn't fit between either. I got a foot of slightly large ID tubing at my LHBS and that'll work to fit it on the spigot.

So filling bottles is a little less "splashy" as well now (since the 3rd batch).

Hopefully the changes in my bottling and transfering stop the problem.

Thanks everyone!

 

[m3n00b]

I just had one of my dubbels that was great a few months ago. It has started to develop a little sherry taste to it....I'm guess that's ox.

 

[azazel1024]

Hey I also read something else that related yeast autolysis to a burned tire rubber taste/smell.

If you consider a super mild version of that, then that is maybe the closest description of the after taste on the pale ale. It is NOT a strong taste, but it is present enough in the finish to not be very good.

Is it also possible that this is something to do with the Nottingham yeast? I've heard a number of people describe the yeast itself tasting funky/not good.

6-8 weeks in bottle seems like an awfully short period of time for the yeast to have all died. Maybe I am pouring too much from the bottles? I typically pour down to the last maybe 5-10cc of beer from the bottle. Should I be leaving more like an ounce in bottle?

Or maybe not be using Nottingham?

Or am I probably more likely just to be experiencing some oxidation on the first batch and regular old aging on the second one?

 

[william_shakes_beer]

If you want to know what the yeast cells taste like, swirl up the last quarter inch in the bottom of the bottle and drink it down. Nothing like personal experience to answer your questions. (at least until they finish the email taste interface

 

[reverendj1]

Unless you transferred a lot of trub into the bottle, I believe autolysis shouldn't happen in the bottle. It is usually caused by leaving the beer in primary too long (2+ months). In the bottle, there shouldn't really be enough yeast to cause the effect. I'm not saying it is impossible, just unlikely, and I haven't heard of it happening.

With such a short primary and secondary, especially for a new brewer, that may have caused some off-flavors as well. After the yeast eat up all the sugar, they start cleaning up after themselves and removing byproducts of fermentation. This takes a few days (at least ~3) with little to no change in SG. You will see people on here who can turn a beer around in a week to ten days (force-carbing with a keg), but for the most part, that is experienced brewers who have their methods and systems down pat. For a new brewer, it's better to go with at least 2 weeks fermentation time. I personally like the 3 and 3 rule (3 weeks in primary, 3 weeks in bottle) and seem to make the best/most consistent beer when I do that. I'm not going to get into the whole secondaries issue (I personally don't do them), as that is really a preference thing.

Also, Nottingham can be a little unpredictable without temp control. I have heard it really acts as like 3 different yeasts, depending on temp. Speaking of temp control, if that is 73 ambient temperature, then that means it is probably around 78 in the fermenter. This is pretty warm. You may want to look into a swamp cooler (tons of info on here) if you can't make a fermentation chamber yet.

One more thing. Are you using regular beer bottles or the Grolsch style fliptops. I would imagine if they are the Grolsch style, you may be getting a slight rubber taste from that if they are brand new.

 

[azazel1024]

Regular bottles, not Grolsch (though I'd like to grab some grolsch style for gift bottles and when I am feeling fancy pants )

I am probably in part freaking out and over exaggerating the taste. I told my wife about it last night and she tried a big swing. Her reaction

Immediate - "What are you talking about?"
5 seconds later - "Wait...wait a second"
7 seconds later - "Okay, there's something. Okay? So, it seems okay to me though? A little wierd, but okay"

I think I may be hyperaccentuating the flavor in my mind simply because I can taste a change in flavor that is unpleasant to me.

After the first brew and realizing I took things too fast I went to 5 and 5 primary/secondary (days). The 3rd one was 1 week and 1 week.

Now I am doing 2 weeks in primary, nothing in secondary. After these two are done I am probably going to do more like 2-3 weeks all primary for lighter ales and 4-5 weeks for heavier ales.

After doing tons of reading I learned about the yeast eating stuff up post primary fermentation and it seems like if you racked it off the trub too fast then it would take a really long time (if ever) for the yeast to reconsume a lot of its by products. So I figure now 2 weeks is maybe the minimum safe time (in my mind).

I plan on just using my secondary for fruit additions or if I am going to leave something in for a long time. I know a lot of people say even months in the primary can be fine, but I guess having little experience I just can't help feeling like a month in primary should be good and if it needs longer, toss (or carefuly siphon) it in the secondary for longer.

I have noticed this morning that my middle english honey brown ale has produced a LOT of trub this time around. High Krausen is mostly over with it starting to fall now (and fermentation is to maybe a bubble every 30 seconds). Its my highest gravity, fermentable, brew so far. So maybe that is part of it. That and the mugwort I threw in there probably wasn't all caught by the funnel filter (though most of the hops pellet material was), it wasn't much mugwort though (.5oz). Its also my first in a 3 gallon better bottle.

My next highest gravity was also a 1.062, but it also had roughly a pound of mostly non-fermentable caramel in it (started at 1.062 and ended at 1.02). This one was 1.062 and I think and expect it to end more like 1.012-1.014. It'll have two weeks in next Sunday, but depending on things I may or may not be able to get around to bottling it that day (I have family in from out of town).

 

[azazel1024]

Hmmm, I had the last bottle of the pale ale tonight and it was fine. I also had another bottle of the red ale and it was good.

Weird. I might have been having an off taste bud night two nights ago with the red ale. I know I wasn't with the pale ale as the last 5-6 bottles over a week or two have tasted off. Maybe something with the bottles themselves not getting sanitized properly or something?

Mysteries.

 

[m3n00b]

Sometimes your tastes temporarily change. I remember for the longest time I couldn't eat any dairy because it all tasted like this rotten ranch dressing I had a bite of at a restaurant. Then one day months later I had some brie and was happily eating milk products after that.