Fruit concentrates in cider

[MarkKF]

So I’ve made a bunch of fruit flavored ciders using whole fruit as well as fruit juice. But I’ve seen some good organic all natural fruit concentrates at the natural food store. I was wondering if there is a correlation between the reconstitution instructions on the concentrate and how much to put in a 5 gal. keg of cider. Also, will the amount of fruit flavor needed give me a sweet or dry cider? I usually shoot for 1.008 final gravity.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

I use 15...12oz cans of frozen juice to make 5 gallon and 10lbs sugar

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Made a kiwi strawberry Apple Frozen concentrated Old Orchard 1 gallon test batch today. Three 12 Oz containers of juice and 2 lb of sugar my starting gravity was 16 and a half potential alcohol by volume. I used ec-1118 the only thing I had

 

[bernardsmith]

What makes this a cider an not a wine?

 

[homebrewer_99]

What makes this a cider an not a wine?

I would think because "wine" comes from the word "vine" and apples grow on trees.

 

[bernardsmith]

I would think because "wine" comes from the word "vine" and apples grow on trees.

I guess I am a purist and wine is any alcoholic drink that is made from fruit (or vegetables); ale or beer is made from grains, and mead is made from honey.

Cider and/or perry are subsets of wines and are made from apples or pears, respectively, typically using only the sugars found in the fruit and those sugars in apples or pears means that the ABV is likely to be around 5%. Grape wines also are made using only the sugars expressed from that fruit. No added sugar.

Calling something with 16% ABV "cider" is a little confusing as I expect to be able to drink cider by the pint. I don't expect to be able to drink any wine by the pint.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

I call it a cider because I've run it through my kegerator and make it nice and Spritzee

 

[Maylar]

Calling something with 16% ABV "cider" is a little confusing as I expect to be able to drink cider by the pint. I don't expect to be able to drink any wine by the pint.

And to add to that, for legal purposes any fruit beverage above 8% ABV is wine. It's a tax thing, but I'm just sayin'.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Tax what's that? Yeah I know what you're saying. I've tried just about every Frozen concentrated juice out there and have always gotten good results. If it aint 15% or above why bother making it right? I have a frozen concentrated orange juice and maple syrup batch going as well

 

[bernardsmith]

But wine making is all about balance and not about making rocket fuel. Some really rich flavors can support 15% ABV and some thin flavors cannot. Some fruit has been cultivated (read engineered) to contain more than 3 lbs of sugar in every gallon of expressed juice and some fruit barely contains 1 lb of sugar. Some fruit has the acidity to balance the flavors at 12% and other fruit is just too bland for an ABV higher than 6%. It's all about making balance. It's all about making it right. If you just want a buzz dilute your frozen concentrated apple juice with a bottle of vodka.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Some of us poor boys can't afford vodka so we resort to the model of if it ferments make it

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

I happen to ride my 4-wheeler through the 18 hole golf course that has been abandoned for about 6 years and discovered zillions of dandelions but got there too late this year all that's left is the white Blow Away type heads so next year I'm going to keep my eye on it and make a dandelion wine

 

[stickyfinger]

i used 1 cup of tart cherry juice concentrate from King's Orchard in my keg of cider. It gave it a little sweetness and a perfect cherry flavor. you can always add more if desired i guess, as they say.

 

[bernardsmith]

Some of us poor boys can't afford vodka so we resort to the model of if it ferments make it

I too am in that camp, but I see that you must be adding lbs and lbs of sugar to up the ABV so I assumed that you have spare $$$. Me? I work with the fruit I find although I do admit to making wines from elderflowers, nettles, chamomile, and hibiscus so the only sugar to ferment is what I add.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Sugar is cheap it's the honey for Mead and the syrup for Maple wine is what gets expensive

 

[bernardsmith]

I'll give you that - and add that sugar is also flavorless... so it adds ABV but that's all it adds - no flavor, no acidity, no tannin, no mouthfeel. It's both inexpensive AND cheap.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Yep that's why you need a pH meter some acid blend some tanin and all the other things that go with it fermaid o- and K and Go Firm. Retired early at 53 with a work-related injury and basically all this Brewing gives me a hobby and something to do

 

[bucketnative]

I think this thread went off the rails. I read this as Mark looking to see how much of the fruit concentrate to add to his apple cider to get some of the fruit flavor. I did not interpret this as Mark looking to ferment the reconstituted fruit juice made from the concentrate.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

Yeah sorry about that

 

[bernardsmith]

So I’ve made a bunch of fruit flavored ciders using whole fruit as well as fruit juice. But I’ve seen some good organic all natural fruit concentrates at the natural food store. I was wondering if there is a correlation between the reconstitution instructions on the concentrate and how much to put in a 5 gal. keg of cider. Also, will the amount of fruit flavor needed give me a sweet or dry cider? I usually shoot for 1.008 final gravity.

Flavor may be related to the amounts of fructose and glucose in the fruit but the molecules responsible for flavor are not the sugars themselves, they come from dozens of volatile compounds. As long as your fermentation is not too vigorous many of the flavor molecules will remain in solution. That's why a preferred yeast might not be one that is known to be very aggressive in its action (and so does not blow off all the flavor compounds)
A dry wine or cider means that whatever flavor was in the fruit, all the sugar has been converted to CO2 and ethanol. A sweet wine (or cider) means that a significant amount of the sugars in the fruit (or the must, if you added sugar) remains unfermented. Neither have any real impact on the flavor molecules although your perception of flavor may be changed. More residual sugar in a fruit wine somehow brings forward the fruitiness of the wine or cider.

You can make wines with residual sugar in different ways:
1. by fermenting dry and then back sweetening after stabilization
2. by increasing the amount of sugar beyond the yeast's ability to ferment in an environment so full of alcohol
3. By controlling the nitrogen / nutrients in the must so that the yeast are unable to take up any more sugar and quit while there is still sugar remaining.
There are other ways that brewers talk about - namely pasteurizing the
wine in mid flight but 1) cooked fruit tastes like cooked fruit and 2) heating sealed bottles saturated with CO2 is a recipe for exploding glass. But yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance.

 

[bmd2k1]

I use 100% fruit concentrates from Brownwood Acres near Traverse City, MI - tart cherry, wild blueberry & pomegranate. I add to my ciders post-fermentation. For me 1-1.5/oz per gal works out perfect...depending on which fruit.

https://www.brownwoodacres.com/fruit-juice-concentrates/

Cheers! [emoji111]

 

[MarkKF]

Thanks guys.

 

[kl Roosevelt brewer]

I would really love to find some frozen concentrated blackberry juice without being mixed with something else. Looks like it's another dry year and blackberries are going to be minimal. Very few berries last year so we scavenge some elderberries and made a stab at that and it didn't turn out very well. Not enough nutrients or oxygenated at the beginning and maybe too much sugar. It was kind of Woody tasting very different for sure

 

[Bryceshu]

Calling something with 16% ABV "cider" is a little confusing as I expect to be able to drink cider by the pint. I don't expect to be able to drink any wine by the pint.

I like the higher octane ciders and beers myself lol

I would like to mess around with adding some fruit concentrates my next round of ciders.. possible this weekend. I will let you guys know how it plays out.