Friendly Commercial Brewers vs. Not-So-Friendly

[dallasdb]

I went through the first few pages and didn't see anybody mention the fact that the Odell reply could've been from some nobody at the brewery. When I was in management in the Powersports Industry I fell behind on customer replies and I would have another employee reply for me. Someone making min wage who probably really didn't care all that much about how the customer would receive a response. Granted I never really had an issue with a ticked off customer.

Maybe the OP should reply to the email and ask for some more specifics or ask for details in person if he has the chance.

 

[dallasdb]

I don't think there's a culture of bad customer service there but maybe the person responsible for answering emails is a bottleneck in their service.

^This

 

[Mongrel]

Deschutes gets props. They don't tell you the percentages, but I don't care and I have put together my Abyss recipe for an upcoming brew day. It won't be exact, but it should be good.
http://www.deschutesbrewery.com/brews/homebrew-recipes

I love that Deschutes gives ingredients but not the percentages. Reverse engineering will make you a better brewer than simply brewing a clone. I also love the that they donate some really cool **** to my club, and that they want to taste what we've done with what they've donated, and that they've had what we've done tested in their lab. It also helps we get a $1 off pints at the Bend pub with our club cards

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

When I first read this thread, I empathized with witt... I've been there. But I have found that if you really dig into a recipe, certain truths inevitably reveal themselves. You just have to rack your brain to find them!

Ultimately, the path you take to try and "clone" a beer is more important than the beer itself. Going through the process of deconstructing them teaches you things about the beers you love and gives you insight into different approaches. In fact, the process helps you identify what you love about the beer and, I think, if you build a recipe around your love for the beer you may very well end up with a beer you like even better than the original.

Cloning is fine for newbs (or people who are "a newb to brewing the style", as I am to Bourbon-aged stouts) but what really gets interesting is when you develop and refine the ability to hone in on what you like about a recipe and take it farther, do it one better.

OP, figure out what you love about this beer. You have enough details to get in the ballpark. Take what you love about it and try to maximize it. Even if it's not an exact clone, I bet it'll be one of the best beers you've ever made.

I believe that every great beer has some secret, some balance, some approach, that is unique. Think about how you would brew an Imperial Pilsner. There's "a game" there. Think about how you'd brew an American IPA, there's "a game" in figuring out how to balance it out. Figure out what game the brewer is playing and make your beer in the spirit of that game. I tend to get fairly close.

 

[worksnorth]

When I first read this thread, I empathized with witt... I've been there. But I have found that if you really dig into a recipe, certain truths inevitably reveal themselves. You just have to rack your brain to find them!

Ultimately, the path you take to try and "clone" a beer is more important than the beer itself. Going through the process of deconstructing them teaches you things about the beers you love and gives you insight into different approaches. In fact, the process helps you identify what you love about the beer and, I think, if you build a recipe around your love for the beer you may very well end up with a beer you like even better than the original.

Cloning is fine for newbs (or people who are "a newb to brewing the style", as I am to Bourbon-aged stouts) but what really gets interesting is when you develop and refine the ability to hone in on what you like about a recipe and take it farther, do it one better.

OP, figure out what you love about this beer. You have enough details to get in the ballpark. Take what you love about it and try to maximize it. Even if it's not an exact clone, I bet it'll be one of the best beers you've ever made.

I believe that every great beer has some secret, some balance, some approach, that is unique. Think about how you would brew an Imperial Pilsner. There's "a game" there. Think about how you'd brew an American IPA, there's "a game" in figuring out how to balance it out. Figure out what game the brewer is playing and make your beer in the spirit of that game. I tend to get fairly close.

+1 Good Stuff

 

[hercher]

When I first read this thread, I empathized with witt... I've been there. But I have found that if you really dig into a recipe, certain truths inevitably reveal themselves. You just have to rack your brain to find them!

Ultimately, the path you take to try and "clone" a beer is more important than the beer itself. Going through the process of deconstructing them teaches you things about the beers you love and gives you insight into different approaches. In fact, the process helps you identify what you love about the beer and, I think, if you build a recipe around your love for the beer you may very well end up with a beer you like even better than the original.

Cloning is fine for newbs (or people who are "a newb to brewing the style", as I am to Bourbon-aged stouts) but what really gets interesting is when you develop and refine the ability to hone in on what you like about a recipe and take it farther, do it one better.

OP, figure out what you love about this beer. You have enough details to get in the ballpark. Take what you love about it and try to maximize it. Even if it's not an exact clone, I bet it'll be one of the best beers you've ever made.

I believe that every great beer has some secret, some balance, some approach, that is unique. Think about how you would brew an Imperial Pilsner. There's "a game" there. Think about how you'd brew an American IPA, there's "a game" in figuring out how to balance it out. Figure out what game the brewer is playing and make your beer in the spirit of that game. I tend to get fairly close.

^ This.

Not to try to hijack the thread, but the whole discussion also sort of raises an interesting question: why try to clone a beer at all? Why would you want their recipe in the first place? If you like the beer, buy it. The reason I homebrew is that I want to make beer that isn't like anything else I can buy.

For the same reason, I don't think I have ever used a recipe I've found in any book or online or from any other source.

I have a huge advantage over every commercial brewery in the world: I am brewing for a market of 1. I can brew whatever style of beer I want, and I can use any ingredient I want (budget permitting, of course). I can and generally do brew a different beer every time. I rarely, if ever, brew a beer exactly the same twice. Why? Because I can, and because that is what makes homebrewing fun.

That said, when I design a beer, I have certain targets in mind -- a certain flavor profile usually, though I have brewed just to see if I can hit a certain color, or to find out what a certain ingredient tastes like.

So consider it a challenge to take the information you have, and "reverse engineer" the beer to hit that flavor you want, then make it better!

 

[jwwbrennan]

I am brewing for a market of 1.

That's it. No matter what you are making, that's what makes it interesting. If others like it, that's nice; if not, oh well. I'm drinking a stout at this point I don't expect those around me to like so I made less hoppy beer and wine at the same time.

I am never crushed by the well-intended opinions of others, I have far too many of my own to need them.

 

[rexbanner]

When I first read this thread, I empathized with witt... I've been there. But I have found that if you really dig into a recipe, certain truths inevitably reveal themselves. You just have to rack your brain to find them!

Ultimately, the path you take to try and "clone" a beer is more important than the beer itself. Going through the process of deconstructing them teaches you things about the beers you love and gives you insight into different approaches. In fact, the process helps you identify what you love about the beer and, I think, if you build a recipe around your love for the beer you may very well end up with a beer you like even better than the original.

Cloning is fine for newbs (or people who are "a newb to brewing the style", as I am to Bourbon-aged stouts) but what really gets interesting is when you develop and refine the ability to hone in on what you like about a recipe and take it farther, do it one better.

OP, figure out what you love about this beer. You have enough details to get in the ballpark. Take what you love about it and try to maximize it. Even if it's not an exact clone, I bet it'll be one of the best beers you've ever made.

I believe that every great beer has some secret, some balance, some approach, that is unique. Think about how you would brew an Imperial Pilsner. There's "a game" there. Think about how you'd brew an American IPA, there's "a game" in figuring out how to balance it out. Figure out what game the brewer is playing and make your beer in the spirit of that game. I tend to get fairly close.

You said it.

Brew enough and drink enough beers and you can easily tell the direction a beer has taken. Hop forward, or malt forward? Dry or sweet? What flavors do you taste? Personally, I'd rather focus on the direction of a beer I like rather than the specific ingredients because it is tough to exactly duplicate a taste anyways. For example, I always liked Chimay Red. I liked the direction it took; an easy-drinking, dry, lighter dubbel. I tailored mine to be the same way, but side-by-side, I like it more than Chimay, as do several other people.

A lot of this comes from experience and practice, though. You can read about ingredients but you have to use them to know them, and to learn how much you like in a beer.

 

[zendog]

Like a few others have mentioned, you will never be able to truly clone a commercial beer. There are way too many process/environmental variables you will never duplicate. Every brewhouse and homebrewer's home is unique. You just need to focus on what attributes you like about a given beer(s) and start brewing! I make small tweaks each time I brew, always learning what works and doesn't. That's half the fun! Cheers!

 

[beerloaf]

A friend of mine is the brewmaster for a local mico and he is very open to any questions from anyone. He also offered me yeast and tours even though they do not do that to the public. He runs a 12 bbl operation and brews 5 days every week with an assistant. That being said I think it all depends on the individual brewer. I personally would share my recipees but I have known even homebrewers who refuse to share theirs. I'm not surprised that some brewers refuse to do so. The pro-brewer scene is a lot different than what most people assume. Small breweries are fighting very aggressively for a very small piece of the pie that is their market share. It does get very competative and fierce. So the "not sharing" attitude comes with that territory.

beerloaf

 

[jaynik]

Humph. More than one person in this thread says that if their preferred brewery won't give them their specific recipe they'll stop supporting them. Good grief...