Fresh Barrel Souring

[cyanmonkey]

I have a fresh, charred, oak barrel that I've inherited from my dad. I'll be brewing my first sour this weekend and am wondering what type of considerations I should make. I plan on doing primary with US-05 and then souring with something like Wyeast 3278, or pitching a strain of pedio and brett.

I'm really only doing this because I had a weird recipe that I had put together a long time ago for a Belgian Wit and just kept putting off for a long time since I didn't care for the recipe, anymore, so I thought it'd be a good one to sour. I plan on putting it on raspberries.

Questions are:

-Is charred American oak ideal to sour?

-What's the best blend of bugs to pitch for a more balanced sour? I'm not a fan of mouth puckering beer. I love Rodenbach. Kinda aiming for that level of sour. Should I pitch a prepackaged blend or go with a pitch of individual strains?

-What did you wish you knew before venturing into this crazy world or sour beer?


Boil Size: 6.48 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.73 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.063 SG
Estimated Color: 5.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 13.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8 lbs Pilsen Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.0 SRM) Grain 1 61.5 %
2 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 2 15.4 %
2 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 15.4 %
8.0 oz Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.8 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.8 %
0.50 oz Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 13.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 7 -
3.00 lb Raspberry Puree (Secondary 7.0 days) Flavor 8

 

[Sourz4life]

Just remember whatever you put in it now will most likely be in there until its end. Personally I don't like spirit barrels for sours but that doesn't mean I haven't had good sours from it. I prefer wine barrels for the fruit notes, just compliments most brett esters and phenols. If you want to be picky about your souring you could kettle sour prior and get the level of acidity your looking for. When you pitch LABs such as lacto and pedio and let it do its thing you can never be to sure where it'll end up. There are also some strains of Brett from different labs that provide a light souring as well. Now if you plan to primary with Sacc and then secondary with brett/lacto or pedio then it shouldn't end up to sour as the Sacc would have use a majority of the sugars. Brett of course will eat away at the rest of the sugars. So for what you've listed I'd say the best bet would be either a Sacc the has a hint of sour/tartness to it then use brett in secondary. Or use whatever sacc you want then add Brett and Pedio. Just make sure to give the Brett plenty of time to clean up what the pedio will do.

 

[cyanmonkey]

The barrel hasn't had any spirit in it. I've always wanted to do stuff in barrels and unfortunately (not really going to complain about a free barrel) this is what I have.

Good advice, thanks.

 

[Sourz4life]

For sure. A free barrel is the best kind.

 

[specharka]

A fresh charred oak barrel is going to have way too much oak character for a traditional sour -- you will probably not even notice the beer bouquet behind all of the oak. After a few uses (RIS, robust porter, etc) you might be able to squeeze a darker sour out, but a simple pseudo Framboise is going to taste, well, like a burnt oak tree.

I wouldn't try a sour, but a darker beer or spirit should be just fine.

 

[cyanmonkey]

A fresh charred oak barrel is going to have way too much oak character for a traditional sour -- you will probably not even notice the beer bouquet behind all of the oak. After a few uses (RIS, robust porter, etc) you might be able to squeeze a darker sour out, but a simple pseudo Framboise is going to taste, well, like a burnt oak tree.

I wouldn't try a sour, but a darker beer or spirit should be just fine.

That's what I'm worried about. I was thinking RIS, but hasn't had any whiskey in it...

 

[burninator]

That's what I'm worried about. I was thinking RIS, but hasn't had any whiskey in it...

If you want whiskey character, in addition to the oak, you could just add a bit of the whiskey of your choice to the barrel.

 

[cyanmonkey]

If you want whiskey character, in addition to the oak, you could just add a bit of the whiskey of your choice to the barrel.

I know. I'm not looking for whiskey character. I wanted to sour a barrel, but I have a virgin charred barrel and just don't have a reason to use it. If it had whiskey in it, I'd put a RIS or Barleywine in it.

 

[Sourz4life]

You could also flush hot water through it multiple times or steam it. It won't strip everything but it'll help get rid of those tannins.

 

[cyanmonkey]

You could also flush hot water through it multiple times or steam it. It won't strip everything but it'll help get rid of those tannins.

And you think this would be fine to sour something in for a year?

 

[PLOVE]

Why not just brew and age a porter and another favorite beer that would be pair with oak. After a couple of rounds of oaking (3-6 months) the barrel will be neutral and you can use it for souring.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Why not just brew and age a porter and another favorite beer that would be pair with oak. After a couple of rounds of oaking (3-6 months) the barrel will be neutral and you can use it for souring.

This is most likely the ideal scenario. Was just hoping to transfer to the barrel within this next month. I guess it'll have to wait.

 

[Sourz4life]

If you strip it enough you could definitely do a dark sour. I've stripped plenty of barrels by flushing hot water through it multiple times then steaming it. I wouldn't use them for lighter sours until many batches after though.

 

[jgourd]

I would do as some have suggested and brew a porter and let it age in the barrel for half a year or so. Then do another one just like that in the same barrel. Then you can start thinking about a sour in the barrel. I just emptied my barrel that had been going on three years. I made a 5 gal started of lambic and pitched the White Labs Belgian Lambic blend. It fermented in a bucket until high krausen, at which point I brewed 50 gal to fill the barrel and pitched my 5 gal starter on top of it. That was Thanksgiving 2013. It went undisturbed for a year. I collected 85% of it the next year to age on fruit, and brewed fresh lambic to refill the barrel. That was Thanksgiving 2014. The same process that year. I collected 75% or so and brewed more to fill the barrel Thanksgiving 2015. I recently moved, so I had to empty the barrel. So now I have about 50 gal of gueuze. And it's freaking delicious. Sourness is perfect for my taste, which is about what you probably think Rodenbach is. My only problem now is how long it will take me to drink about 400 bottles of lambic (some on raspberries, some on blueberries, some on cherries, and about half of those bottles are just gueuze). Oh, and I have 20 gal of Flanders style beer (10 gal of red and 10 gal of brown) aging in carboys with some oak in them that I still need to bottle!

 

[cyanmonkey]

I would do as some have suggested and brew a porter and let it age in the barrel for half a year or so. Then do another one just like that in the same barrel. Then you can start thinking about a sour in the barrel. I just emptied my barrel that had been going on three years. I made a 5 gal started of lambic and pitched the White Labs Belgian Lambic blend. It fermented in a bucket until high krausen, at which point I brewed 50 gal to fill the barrel and pitched my 5 gal starter on top of it. That was Thanksgiving 2013. It went undisturbed for a year. I collected 85% of it the next year to age on fruit, and brewed fresh lambic to refill the barrel. That was Thanksgiving 2014. The same process that year. I collected 75% or so and brewed more to fill the barrel Thanksgiving 2015. I recently moved, so I had to empty the barrel. So now I have about 50 gal of gueuze. And it's freaking delicious. Sourness is perfect for my taste, which is about what you probably think Rodenbach is. My only problem now is how long it will take me to drink about 400 bottles of lambic (some on raspberries, some on blueberries, some on cherries, and about half of those bottles are just gueuze). Oh, and I have 20 gal of Flanders style beer (10 gal of red and 10 gal of brown) aging in carboys with some oak in them that I still need to bottle!

Sounds like a good problem to have. If you need help, I can think of a way to make those bottles go away.