freezer heater help

[ff13375]

I need some advice on a heater for my brewpi setup. I have a 5 cubic chest freezer so its not that big. I have a small USB fan in the freezer to move air around. My basement is around 64 and I would like to be able to warm the freezer to around 78. I already have 2 6x24 (12 watts a foot) fermawrap. I taped one to the back of the freezer to see how long it takes to warm the air up. I will add the second one if needed. Should I keep it taped to the wall or maybe get a piece of thin insulation board and tape it to that? In a 30 min test it took the freezer from 66 to 72. Nothing is in the freezer. Just warming the air. Is that to slow should i add the second one?

The other heats i am looking at are BREWER'S EDGE® SPACE HEATER or Lasko MyHeat 200-Watt.

Just trying to get some advice, i already went a little over budget and trying to get the best possible setup. Any help would be wonderful

 

[Brulosopher]

Google "paint can heater," I use one in each of my chambers and they work amazingly well, plus they cost less than $10 to make. Cheers!

 

[ff13375]

I have looked into the option but I was worried if something goes wrong with the controller and the heat stays on it could melt wire or catch fire. I work for a fire department and have seen houses burn from electronic over heating.

 

[Brulosopher]

I have looked into the option but I was worried if something goes wrong with the controller and the heat stays on it could melt wire or catch fire. I work for a fire department and have seen houses burn from electronic over heating.

Valid concern. Thankfully, I've no in vivo experience!

 

[IslandLizard]

If you're that concerned don't you think those space heaters aren't dangerous? Why not use a reptile heater, a ceramic "lamp" (radiator) that emits no light.

 

[ff13375]

I believe the little space heater has a over heat pertection. I have been using one 24 watt fermwrap that I taped to the back wall for the for a test. I filled a 5 gal bucket with water. Just not sure if I should had the second one or not.

 

[batty]

I am using the lasko space heater in a similar space and it definitely works well.

I think the fermwrap would be pretty slow to heat the air, but that isn't necessarily a big issue depending in how fast you want to ramp your beer - once the beer is at temp stability is much easier. Unfortunately I think the only way to really know is to try it - I haven't heard of anyone using the fermwraps in this way. Some are using the fermwraps on the fermenter with brewpi, but you could check the thread 'brewpi for cheap' for possible ideas.

 

[ff13375]

Here is the graph of the test. I don't have anything to go off of. If you could look at it and let me know what you think.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes, the space heaters should have overheat protection. I have one (not Lasco) where the fan fails to come on sometimes and it gets h-h-hot.

Is the controller's probe in close contact with the fermentor, but insulated from ambient air?
I don't think the Fermwrap heater is undersized, as long as the controller doesn't switch into cooling mode right after the heater comes on.

 

[ff13375]

The beer probe is in a thermowell which is about 3in from the bottom of the bucket. The fridge probe is in a plastic test Jar sitting on the bottom of the freezer. I wasn't to sure where to put the fridge probe.

 

[batty]

Control looks really quite good to me.. I can't think of any concerns.

A second wrap may speed up the heat ramp time, might be helpful if you ever have cold beer you want to heat up quickly, if that would ever happen?

I'd go with it, looks awesome. Pretty jealous, actually - my fermenting room varies 45-95F, including 20 degree swings in the course of the day - puts a lot of strain on my heating/cooling.

 

[MindenMan]

Cheap. Budget. Good. Electric heating pads work amazingly and predictably. I don't use my Lasko anymore, the air in the freezer was over 90* and the beer was too cold still. You want to heat the beer and not the air IMHO, but I have been wrong before.

 

[ff13375]

Thanks I might add the second we will see. After I do a real brew I will decide.

 

[dunbruha]

I used a ceramic reptile heater, but found that the top of the fv was very hot (I ferment in a 1/4 bbl Sanke) even though the beer was at temp. Plus, the inside top of my freezer was starting to bubble. So I think that the air was heating unevenly. I just ordered this (http://www.homebrewing.org/Heat-Pad-for-Beer-and-Wine-Making_p_2509.html) and will give it a try soon. I'm hoping that because the fv sits right on top of the heater, the heat will get to the beer more quickly and be more evenly distributed.

 

[xico]

Interesting discussion, I just picked up a 16 cu. foot freezer on the cheap and the temp controller arrived today. I was planning to brew this weekend but I want to get my temp control in order first. I like the paint can lighting but I am concerned about fire. I'm now intrigued by the heating pad option. How do I set up my probe? I have an ITC 308.

If I were to get something like below, do I put the probe in a container of water toward the middle of the freezer?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FGDDI0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[jrcrilly]

I suppose the size of the freezer matters. My 200W Lasko works great in my 15 cf freezer but might raise the air temp too much in a smaller box. It seems easier than installing heat wraps on each fermenter. The heater is just there and doesn't require me to do anything when adding or removing a fermenter except to transfer the probe if I am removing the one with the probe on it.

 

[gromitdj]

The fridge probe is in a plastic test Jar sitting on the bottom of the freezer. I wasn't to sure where to put the fridge probe.

According to Elco (BrewPi) and many others, the fridge sensor should be hanging in the open air within the chamber. It should not be in a Jar of water or anything else in order to provide the best control.

Additionally, I've used the Lasko heater and I think it heats a little to well in my Fermentation Chamber. Which I believe is around 5 c.f. I think (for me) the better solution is about 25 watts of heating from a paint can heater.

 

[xico]

According to Elco (BrewPi) and many others, the fridge sensor should be hanging in the open air within the chamber. It should not be in a Jar of water or anything else in order to provide the best control.

Additionally, I've used the Lasko heater and I think it heats a little to well in my Fermentation Chamber. Which I believe is around 5 c.f. I think (for me) the better solution is about 25 watts of heating from a paint can heater.

Curious, I figured air temp would fluctuate too much and that I should put the probe in another heat sink similar to my fermentation vessels. I will look into Elco's advice, thanks.

 

[xico]

I suppose the size of the freezer matters. My 200W Lasko works great in my 15 cf freezer but might raise the air temp too much in a smaller box. It seems easier than installing heat wraps on each fermenter. The heater is just there and doesn't require me to do anything when adding or removing a fermenter except to transfer the probe if I am removing the one with the probe on it.

That looks ideal! I like the safety mechanism. Can I ask, how do you have your chamber set up? Do you have a fan? Is your probe in the open air?

 

[jrcrilly]

No fan, and the probe gets taped to a fermenter sidewall. The "probe in mid-air" thing would probably be OK if you use a fan to equalize temps within the freezer.

 

[govner1]

Having experienced a fire in my ferm chamber when using a small heater I've gone to ceramic heat bulbs. They thread into a std light fixture & are durable and reasonably priced.
I also use a small fan in both my ale & lager chambers. Theses are connected to my temp controller. You can get them for less than $10.

 

[gromitdj]

Curious, I figured air temp would fluctuate too much and that I should put the probe in another heat sink similar to my fermentation vessels. I will look into Elco's advice, thanks.

If you place the Fridge sensor into something in order to stabilize the readings, it won't utilize the PID function efficiently. It needs to be able to accurately determine the under/overshoot of the fridge compressor. I will try to find the threads about it on the BrewPi site and link them here.

Edit:

You can see where Elco placed his sensor in the Fridge Hacking Guide on the BrewPi site.

You can see that there are a few that agree with me on the placement in the Cheap BrewPi Thread.

Also, the fridge sensor is software filtered in order to combat the problems from quick fluctuation.

 

[xico]

Thanks for the details! According to the BrewPi folk you want the sensor in a thermowell of a fermentation vessel. Wouldn't it amount to something similar to have the probe in a vessel of water? I'm confused because it made sense to me from this thread's contributors that it should be in the open in the chamber.

So what is it?

 

[gromitdj]

Beer temp sensor is best placed in a thermowell in the vessel. Fridge temp sensor is best placed hanging in the open air. Both according to the links I provided.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Cheap. Budget. Good. Electric heating pads work amazingly and predictably. I don't use my Lasko anymore, the air in the freezer was over 90* and the beer was too cold still. You want to heat the beer and not the air IMHO, but I have been wrong before.

One thing of note on this is that most heating pad's automatically shut off after X amount of minutes and wont turn on until you flip the switch off and on again...Amazon does sell one without any safteys though...

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Thanks for the details! According to the BrewPi folk you want the sensor in a thermowell of a fermentation vessel. Wouldn't it amount to something similar to have the probe in a vessel of water? I'm confused because it made sense to me from this thread's contributors that it should be in the open in the chamber.

So what is it?

As others said, fridge temp is an air temp inside the fridge. Beer temp should go in a thermowell.

Having it in water isnt the same because your water isnt fermenting and generating heat. Water would always just follow the trend of your chamber's temp, not what your beer is actually doing..it could be 65F in your fridge and your beer is 70F because its fermenting and your fridge would never turn on.

BrewPi uses the fridge temperature in its PID loop to determine how long it needs to stay on so it doesnt overshoot as much.

 

[chisena]

I just monitor the air temp in the fridge and keep it a little cooler than my desired wort temp during the first few days of fermentation.

 

[xico]

As others said, fridge temp is an air temp inside the fridge. Beer temp should go in a thermowell.

Having it in water isnt the same because your water isnt fermenting and generating heat. Water would always just follow the trend of your chamber's temp, not what your beer is actually doing..it could be 65F in your fridge and your beer is 70F because its fermenting and your fridge would never turn on.

BrewPi uses the fridge temperature in its PID loop to determine how long it needs to stay on so it doesnt overshoot as much.

Wow, I am so impressed with your description of setting up a BrewPi! It will go high on my list of things to do. Thanks so much for your contribution!

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Wow, I am so impressed with your description of setting up a BrewPi! It will go high on my list of things to do. Thanks so much for your contribution!

Enjoy!