Freeze concentration

[wilserbrewer]

How would the phenols increase or be created because of the freezing process?

If I freeze concentrate a gal...down to 1/2 gal, there would be the same amount of phenols in the pre and post frozen stuff, just in higher concentration. Seems to reason you would have the same side effects from drinking the gallon of pre-frozen stuff as you would with the 1/2 gal concentrated stuff.

I agree, you would be getting the same overall amount of phenols and methyl, but half the water needed to flush the poison through your system...

 

[BamaProud]

OK that makes more sense.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Rather than freeze concentrating, I made a batch of "apple pie" to take to the Jets - Saints game today...
http://allrecipes.com/recipe/apple-pie-in-a-jar-drink/

Instead of apple juice, I used frozen apple juice concentrate and vodka to keep the abv at 20% or 40 proof, easier and better than frozen concentrated apple wine IMHO...

 

[garfieldwithissuez]

The problem (for me at least) is that Vodka is about the nastiest stuff on the planet. I would rather drink straight everclear than vodka.

 

[Kdog22]

For those of you that have done this successfully.. I'd imagine that this process can introduce alot of oxygen into the wine during the whole process. Is that much of a factor to worry about when making this?

Does further aging help the end product even better or is it about as good as it gets once the process is done?

 

[T_Baggins]

Freeze concentration is NOT legal in ALL states, some states do not differentiate between "concentration" and "distillation" ... but federal guidelines permit it. How do you think "Moonshiners" on TV get away with it? notice you never actually see a "transaction" ... that's still agin the law.

 

[emjay]

Freeze concentration is NOT legal in ALL states, some states do not differentiate between "concentration" and "distillation" ... but federal guidelines permit it. How do you think "Moonshiners" on TV get away with it? notice you never actually see a "transaction" ... that's still agin the law.

Moonshiners "gets away with it" because it's in large part fiction...

 

[T_Baggins]

Moonshiners "gets away with it" because it's in large part fiction...

Exactly my point, distillation being federally deregulated, they can show parts of the process but sales still being illegal, they never show a transaction. Making one believe what they are seeing as being illegal with all the TV drama fake crap they do to even make a show. If they even distill anything at all for the show, it's probably just water anyway.

 

[Descender]

How would the phenols increase or be created because of the freezing process?

If I freeze concentrate a gal...down to 1/2 gal, there would be the same amount of phenols in the pre and post frozen stuff, just in higher concentration. Seems to reason you would have the same side effects from drinking the gallon of pre-frozen stuff as you would with the 1/2 gal concentrated stuff.

This!

 

[T_Baggins]

Even with all these phenols and fusels etc etc etc... concentrating it would pose little danger, due to the trace amounts one would die from ethanol poisoning long before the others posed any threat.

 

[garfieldwithissuez]

Even with all these phenols and fusels etc etc etc... concentrating it would pose little danger, due to the trace amounts one would die from ethanol poisoning long before the others posed any threat.

Yeah, I figured that out.

On the topic of "moonshiners" I don't watch TV so I don't know about that show.

 

[T_Baggins]

Yeah, I figured that out.

On the topic of "moonshiners" I don't watch TV so I don't know about that show.

It's totally bogus, just like ALL "reality" shows.

 

[garfieldwithissuez]

I figure. lol

 

[wilserbrewer]

Even with all these phenols and fusels etc etc etc... concentrating it would pose little danger, due to the trace amounts one would die from ethanol poisoning long before the others posed any threat.

Yes agreed, perhaps not dangerous, but it has the potential to give you a hangover whereby you wish you were dead...

Drink a quart of water and take 3 aspirin before going to sleep tol help reduce the effects of excessive Apfelwein consumption as well as the urge to call EdWort a M'F**kR the next morning!

 

[T_Baggins]

Yes agreed, perhaps not dangerous, but it has the potential to give you a hangover whereby you wish you were dead...

AGREED!

 

[Kdog22]

Made some applejack this weekend from an apple wine I started back in April. Final product = Delicious.

 

[Descender]

This is what I'm using lately. Minimizes exposure to oxygen. A two liter bottle inverted on to a quart sized Gatorade bottle. The 2 liter fits right in the mouth of the quart bottle just snuggly enough to allow the air to escape.

 

[Kdog22]

This is what I'm using lately. Minimizes exposure to oxygen. A two liter bottle inverted on to a quart sized Gatorade bottle. The 2 liter fits right in the mouth of the quart bottle just snuggly enough to allow the air to escape.

I've had great luck using that same catch bottle as well. 1 gallon water/milk jugs also fit into the mouth of those bottles, too.


I didn't have one of those bottles handy the other day when I freeze concentrated my white grape peach wine. But it still turned out delicious:

 

[T_Baggins]

Hey I know that cup Kdog! Dickies is the ****!

 

[Kdog22]

Hey I know that cup Kdog! Dickies is the ****!

We got lucky and they built one 5 mins from our house... Delicious BBQ right there!

 

[T_Baggins]

^damn skippy!

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

I'm about ready to rack my Eisbock off the primary into a secondary. Question is, if I rack it into a glass carboy, will that crack when I freeze concentrate it?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[BamaProud]

I wouldn't use glass. You have to invert it and balance it on another bottle(see above) to get the concentrate out.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

An Eisbock only removes about 20% of the water during concentration. Should I expect it to freeze throughout?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[wilserbrewer]

An Eisbock only removes about 20% of the water during concentration. Should I expect it to freeze throughout?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

The amount it freezes will depend on the freezer temperature and the time allowed to freeze. While it may not freeze solid, I also agree with the above poster that using glass is not a great idea. YMMV, do you feel lucky?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0-oinyjsk0

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

So, a question then for those who have freeze concentrated a beverage. Does it tend to freeze from the sides first? All throughout? Has anyone done this in a plastic bucket? Or a corny keg?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[wilserbrewer]

So, a question then for those who have freeze concentrated a beverage. Does it tend to freeze from the sides first? All throughout? Has anyone done this in a plastic bucket? Or a corny keg?

My experience is it freezes throughout in a crystalized sort of slush. I froze a few plastic 2 liter soda blttles of apple wine, then inverted the bottles over another bottle with a funnel and let the liquid drip out until the ice was clear. Others have done it in a bucket, and removed the ice with a strainer / spoon.

 

[Unferth]

So, a question then for those who have freeze concentrated a beverage. Does it tend to freeze from the sides first? All throughout? Has anyone done this in a plastic bucket? Or a corny keg?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Never a corny keg, but I've done it in a plastic bucket. You'll have to strain out the ice and let it drip for some time while in the freezer, so you either need to live somewhere cold or have a big freezer.

I did it by freezing in a 4 gallon bucket then inverting the 4 gal over a 5 gal through a strainer. The ice was clear after about5 hours.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

What about a bottling bucket? The spigot would prob get clogged though, huh??


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Im kinda diggin the bucket spoon method. Then I can capture/melt/measure the ice to know when Ive removed abou 20%.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew