France smoking ban......WTF?!?

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Jimmy Von Tripel

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Check it out http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071228/france_smoking_ban.html?.v=1

Did you know that Heir Hitler was the the first person to successfully impose a national smoking ban?

If you don't want to be exposed to smoke then dont go where people smoke.

And if you say, "What about the dangers of second hand smoke?", I'm sorry but its just not true. Do the research. And dont get your information from the government. Thats like asking the fox whether the hens should be eaten or not.

I fear the day that smoking is totally banned in this country. And if you are for banning smoking in public places but enjoy your freedom to make alcohol, dont worry, that will be next. It always starts with banning smoking, and it ends with eliminating all of your freedoms.

End of rant.

BTW, I don't smoke, but I am for freedom of choice.
 
Its been done to death, here.

Get ready to be told you're wrong.

Don't get personally invested. Keep it on topic and do not insult anyone.

BTW: You broke the Hitler rule in 1 post.
 
Not sure what the laws are in your neck of the woods, but quite a few states have already passed laws similar to the law in France. There are always some initial complaints, but people seem to get over it fast.
 
Ontario has been like that for a while now. I don't have a problem with it, quite the opposite in fact. I think cigarettes should be illegal.

All tobacco farmers should convert to hops or barley!
 
bradsul said:
Ontario has been like that for a while now. I don't have a problem with it, quite the opposite in fact. I think cigarettes should be illegal.

All tobacco farmers should convert to hops or barley!
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Excellent idea.
 
I like Utah's smoking ban. I can go to a bar and not smell like a bathed in an ash tray.
 
olllllo said:
BTW: You broke the Hitler rule in 1 post.
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Ha! I thought that too. Fortunately, he didn't use the other opiner
taboo word...ilk
 
I signed up on a debates and discussions forum to tackle issues like this. Unless it's highly structured discussion on these kind of issues resolves down to people telling the rest of the thread why guy with opinion A is wrong.

So I'll just distill it down: I'm in agreement with Jimmy Von Tripel - Non-smoker against smoking bans.
 
People pi$$ed and moaned when Ireland banned smoking in pubs over a year ago. Now folks are glad they did. They can actually taste the pub grub and they don't have to through away their clothes when they get home. Smokers smoke outside, but inside the air is clean and there is no smog.

Germany will go the same way. Last time in Munich, I put the same clothes on each evening when I went down to the hotel bar for a few Weissbiers. Each night my cloths were rank with cigarette smoke. At least I did not have to do laundry to get the stink out. I just put the same stink back on and I fit right in at the bar. :D

I'm all about banning smoking in restaurants.
 
I'm all about banning smoking in restaurants too. Why should innocent non smokers suffer just because inconsiderate smokers cannot control their addiction ?
 
Why should innocent non smokers suffer just because inconsiderate smokers cannot control their addiction
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While I have on problem with the smoking ban in restaurants, that same argument can be made for banning alcohol beverages in restaurants and bars. Why should innocent non-drinkers suffer because inconsiderate drinkers cannot control their drinking (and proceed to drive drunk)?

(Just a surf-by pot stir.)

Rick
 
rickylr said:
While I have on problem with the smoking ban in restaurants, that same argument can be made for banning alcohol beverages in restaurants and bars. Why should innocent non-drinkers suffer because inconsiderate drinkers cannot control their drinking (and proceed to drive drunk)?

(Just a surf-by pot stir.)

Rick
Click to expand...

Well, I'm not going to be goading into comparing a smoking ban to drunk driving! Two different things totally.

I will say this- I have asthma and often don't go places where I'm subjected to smoking. About two years ago, on Mother's Day, I was hospitalized after going out for dinner with friends and having a terrible reaction to a nearby smoker during dinner. I was on steroids for a long time after that. True, I usually avoid situations like bars, etc, because of the smoke. But sometimes I like going to a restaurant and would love to be able to enjoy wine and dinner like everyone else.
 
There's nothing worse than having a wonderful meal arrive at your table, and some inconsiderate a-hole nearby lights up to smoke between bites. The aroma and taste are overwhelmed by the stench of an ashtray.
 
I just don't see how second hand smoke isn't a danger??????? Smoke is made of carcinogenic particles that will end up in you and everyone around the person smoking. Whether or not it qualifies to whatever level danger is classified as I don't know, but carcinogenic particles being breathed in a set of lungs doesn't go anywhere so....... What about smokers kids who have bronchitis and asthma because they are constantly around smoke? The government had to make them put a warning on the pack and people didn't know before then that putting something other than air in their lungs was bad for them? I guess I don't know anything because my brother always tries to argue that he should have the right to smoke anywhere and make everyone around him choose whether they want to smell like smoke by choosing to go where people smoke. What if I **** my pants and wanted to go hang out with everyone smelling to high heaven, and some people I made sick from the smell? I mean if they have a problem they should leave right? I don't see it as any different than cussing in public in front of children, you have the right just not the class to prevent yourself from being thrown on other people. What about music? Should your neighbors not have the right to tell you to turn down your music if it is too loud and they don't like it, yes, because it is too loud and intruding on them. People used to ask if it was ok to smoke before they lit up, now it seems the complete 180 of that. Whether it is dangerous or not to smell/breathe second hand smoke doesn't matter to me, everything seems to be dangerous. My thing is why can't people have some courtesy, they have to smoke outside somewhere and what do they do, they smoke in the doorway so I still smell like smoke in a smoke in what is supposed to be a non-smoking environment. I will not say smoking should be banned, but I have the right to breathe fresh air (notice you weren't born with a cigarette in your mouth and started life breathing the same air I did). Just because you choose to start doing something that smells repulsive and you can't control where the smell goes doesn't give you more rights than my ability to not stink because of you.
 
This one seems to me to come down to a particular behavior (smoking in public places) that annoys most of the people who are not engaging in said unhealthy behavior. Yooper's comment about asthma makes the point, too, that second-hand smoke is indeed harmful to other people. Since we know smoking is bad for the smoker, why protect their right to inflict their smoke on others, who might also be harmed by it?

Rick, I can have a beer or two and not hurt or bother anyone- it doesn't affect their enjoyment of the meal, and I always do it responsibly. Cigarette and Cigar smoke by nature wafts around the room, and it does interfere with people's abilities to appreciate the food and drink they've paid for. I see your point, but I don't think it pans out.

Maybe smoking bans seem unfair at first, but it's not a ditch I'm willing to die in.
 
wortmonger said:
What if I **** my pants and wanted to go hang out with everyone smelling to high heaven, and some people I made sick from the smell? .
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ROFLMAO! What a great analogy! I guess I would have to light up a stogie or **** my pants too if I were to hang out with you. Kinda like everyone has to eat garlic so no one smell it. :D
 
Rick, I can have a beer or two and not hurt or bother anyone- it doesn't affect their enjoyment of the meal, and I always do it responsibly. Cigarette and Cigar smoke by nature wafts around the room, and it does interfere with people's abilities to appreciate the food and drink they've paid for. I see your point, but I don't think it pans out.
Click to expand...

Oh, I know. As mentioned in my post it was more a pot-stir than anything else, but I can see a parallel argument . . . might be a bit of a stretch, but it is there.

Rick
 
Glad you liked it Ed, lol. I think I would rather smell a pooty a$$ for the length of dinner over smoking. At least when I left the pooter I wouldn't smell like poop. Smoking on the other hand requires a shower and laundrering clothes. Ok, if I were the pooter then maybe some laundry too ;), LOL
 
Smoking on the other hand requires a shower and laundrering clothes.
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Hmm...

I've seen that comment several times already.

I just have to comment- If the only time you shower or wash your clothes is when you get them smoky, then your stench is probably worse than that put off by the smokers.

If, on the other hand, you are like most people and wash your clothes after you wear them, and take a daily shower, then the argument is kind of irrelevant- you were going to wash anyways.
 
rickylr said:
While I have on problem with the smoking ban in restaurants, that same argument can be made for banning alcohol beverages in restaurants and bars. Why should innocent non-drinkers suffer because inconsiderate drinkers cannot control their drinking (and proceed to drive drunk)?

(Just a surf-by pot stir.)

Rick
Click to expand...

Considering there are already laws against driving drunk, I really don't see what your point is ?
 
Docapi said:
Hmm...

I've seen that comment several times already.

I just have to comment- If the only time you shower or wash your clothes is when you get them smoky, then your stench is probably worse than that put off by the smokers.

If, on the other hand, you are like most people and wash your clothes after you wear them, and take a daily shower, then the argument is kind of irrelevant- you were going to wash anyways.
Click to expand...

Tuxedo/suit jacket/etc... irrelevant????? You can wear clothing longer than once and still not "smell" or be dirty. If you smell like smoke all the time then you don't care what smoke smells like and it is you that is making me smell, not me. I have to smell you all the way home to take a shower, then I have to smell you the next morning when I am doing my laundry. You stay with me wheter I want you to or not. Me, well you saw me last night and when I left that is all you had to put up with.

edit: sorry "you" is a smoker not you specifically.
 
On another note: I would think it would be accurate to say that "most" people who smoke can't afford the costs of health care for curing them of smoke related illnesses. I am not saying you are poor if you smoke, but if you are poor and you smoke who pays for it when you get sick? Me, and all the other non-smokers. I think it is rediculous that you can buy cigarettes if you are on welfare. Then again, your cat gets to eat tuna because catfood isn't covered on your food subsities so why should we deny someone that can't afford cigarettes their cigarettes.
 
I used to work at Country Kitchen when I was in high school, and I was pretty much the only employee who didn't smoke. It was basically impossible for me to sit in the breakroom becauseof the smoke, and it got to where it really pissed me off. One day I brought a pack of swisher sweets to work and proceeded to fog them out of the room. It was very satisfying. It's hilarious that a cig. smoker can be offended by a cigar smoker.

I enjoy going places where there is no smoking. It's simply a more pleasant experience B-U-T I think it's horse$hit when these rules are imposed on the businesses against their will. I think if I own a business, home or car or whatever, it should be my decision whether or not someone can smoke there. Not some jackoff in an office somewhere.

The hospital where I used to work would fire your ass for smoking in your own car!!

What's next? I can't have regular soda because someone thinks I'm a fatass?
 
I'm not convinced that all businesses feel that it is being imposed against their will. I think most of them are silently relieved once it goes into effect.

All they want is the playing field to be even.
 
Woah.....talk about kicking over a hornets nest.

Well, its called "Drunken Ramblings and Mindless Mumbling" for a reason :drunk:

I hope no one was too offended over what I said. It was just a rant. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Let us remember that there is a difference between saying something that might offend someone and saying something to deliberately offend in a impudent way. The latter is what gets booted off a forum, not the former.

Salute!
 
You can get fat off soda and then sue for becoming fat off the soda. Remember, it isn't your fault. It is their's for producing the soda and not keeping it from you so you can't drink it.

I would tell any employee I had to not smoke before or during work because they will smell. If they don't agree then they need to find another job because, "me" the owner of the business doesn't want it and I am paying them. I would talk and then fire someone else if they stunk from BO or anything else and refused to change the cause that might offend a customer (it is the customers that pay the money so I can pay the employee).
 
Jimmy Von Tripel said:
I hope no one was too offended over what I said. It was just a rant. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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So far, I think we're good.

Since you're newer, I thought we'd lay out the ground rules.
 
I smoke. I have smoked for 8 years.

Lincoln passed a total smoking ban approximately 2 years ago. This encompasses any establishment that is a "place of work", meaning if any one single person "works" there, it is smoke-free.

This even included the one-man cigar shop, which had high-brow clientele and leather chairs in their smoking lounge for AGES before this law was passed.

People got pissed. One restaurant bought a retired city bus, put tables in it, parked it outside their diner, was fined, and had to shut the bus down within a month of putting it out there for their customers.

But now, it's 2nd nature. Even I don't miss smoking in public *that* much anymore. Sure, it hits me every now and then. I miss coffee and cigarettes at Village Inn, that was by far my favorite relaxation.

But I'm coping. Because now, I can go to the bar, and come home smelling normally, and not have my allergies in panic mode. I can eat brunch at V.I. and never EVER have to worry about what my next errand is or who I have to go see next, and what they'll think about my tobacco stench. Because I don't have much of one anymore.

I went so far as to ban smoking in my own house, with an exception placed on my covered porch so that we have some shelter from the elements. And I love it. My house smells great. My furniture doesn't reek, my bedroom doesn't reek..... just my porch.

FWIW, I'm going to quit smoking after the 1st. I'm down to 1 or 2 cigarettes a day. My goal for some time now has been to keep from having my 1st cigarette of the day until at least 6pm or 7pm. If I can make it to 9pm even better. I don't smoke in my truck anymore, I don't smoke at work anymore. But I'm not quitting b/c of any smoking bans. I'm quitting because I feel like **** and want to do something about it.

Edit: You're cool, Jimmy, I don't think you've offended anyone... good topic, too... Drunken Ramblings is a good discussion ground for it. :D
 
wortmonger said:
I would tell any employee I had to not smoke before or during work because they will smell. If they don't agree then they need to find another job because, "me" the owner of the business doesn't want it and I am paying them.
Click to expand...

I just had to say something here because of that point.

I support this! I have NO problem with the owner of a buisness from saying "You can't smoke here." That's a business decisions that determines the environment of that establishment. To me, smoking or not is as MUCH of an "environment" factor when I go somewhere. My favorite coffee house back in college was a smokey, loud and very LIVELY place and I loved it. It wouldn't be the same if they turned off the music (which has been proven to damage hearing long term!) or disallowed smoking.

But it's the business OWNER's decision. If enough people want it smoke-free, they'll do it to keep customers. My "smoking ban" disagreement stops with the government making that decision.

At the same time...

In Kentucky (a big tobacco state) smoking is classified right in there with being black, female or blind - it's illegal to fire someone because of those reasons since they're "protected status". I won't say I agree with that (but not sure I exactly disagree either) but it IS law in Kentucky.
 
Damn sneaky posters. :) Got several in while I was writing.

chriso said:
I went so far as to ban smoking in my own house, with an exception placed on my covered porch so that we have some shelter from the elements. And I love it. My house smells great. My furniture doesn't reek, my bedroom doesn't reek..... just my porch.
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Your house REEKS. Your car smells like open as... ashtray. ;)

Non-smokers can smell you from across the room.

Across the block (no joke) if you've smoked in the past 10 minutes.

I quit smoking about a year ago now and it's one of the best things I've ever done. I sense you're a bit like me and have a REASON for wanting to quit, so it will be one of the easiest things. I went from two packs a day to nothing cold turkey and haven't had a craving since (and my wife still smokes!).

That said, I've got personal experience with what you are describing, but until you've been smoke free for two weeks, your sense if smell is so deadened that what you describe as "smelling great" will change by that 15th day. I clearly recall my first bowl of cheesy potato soup at a local microbrew around that time and it was a WHOLE new experience (whoa, there's garlic in this!)

You'll be able to smell a smoker (like the grocery store guys who sit at those benches) who's LEFT 10 minutes later and you'll get your first whiff from across the parking lot.

Good luck on quitting, I hope it goes well! :ban:
 

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