Forgoing Bittering Addition

[rodwha]

I had read on a British forum how it's not uncommon to begin hopping at 30 mins or less. Then I heard from someone here on HBT that there's a CA brewery doing this with their IPA. "Really? All in!" So I tried it…

I brewed up an IPA with equal amounts of hops at 30, 20, 10, and 5 mins with an IBU level supposedly just past 100 (partial boil) according to Brewtoad, which does reduce the IBU's a little when using top off.

What I get is a bit of a strange overall flavor and a big part almost seems to me to be a lack of bitterness. It could very well be my mashing though as I was new to jacking with the water and forgot to doctor up my water until about 15 mins in.

I'm willing to try again, but am wondering if my sense of lack of bitterness isn't spot on. Maybe a smaller test batch is in order…

Any of you ditch the bittering addition?

 

[dkevinb]

I've done several 15- or 20-minute extract/steeping grain batches, adding the first hops at the start of the 15- or 20-minute boil. Obviously I had to use more hops because of the reduced boil time, but they tasted pretty good to me. I know "hop bursting" was the hot button for a while.

 

[rodwha]

So you didn't find them missing an essence of bitter they seemed to have needed? What styles?

Nice quote by the way!

 

[Yooper]

Any of you ditch the bittering addition?

I do it fairly often, in some hoppy beers. I especially love it in my version of "Jamil's Evil Twin"- an American red that is bursting with hops flavor and aroma. I don't have his recipe, but I know it's easy to find online.

I generally start hopping with 20 minutes left in the boil. This techique is called "hop bursting", if you want to read up on it.

This is one of my best beers this summer, I think! (10 gallons)
14 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs 8.0 oz Victory Malt (biscuit) (Briess) (28.0 SRM)
1 lbs Aromatic Malt (Abbey Malt) (26.0 SRM)
1 lbs Borlander Munich Malt (Briess) (10.0 SRM)
1 lbs Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain
1 lbs Wheat - White Malt (2.3 SRM) Grain
2.50 oz Galaxy [14.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 33.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 4.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 0.0 IBUs

Here's another hops schedule I did this summer (again, 10 gallons):
2.00 oz Chinook Leaf [13.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min
2.00 oz Citra [13.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop
2.00 oz El Dorado [15.30 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min

And one of my favorites:

1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min
2.00 oz Simcoe [11.90 %] - Boil 15.0 min
2.00 oz Amarillo [10.10 %] - Boil 10.0 min
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min
2.00 oz Amarillo [10.10 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min
1.00 oz Simcoe [11.90 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min

 

[dkevinb]

So you didn't find them missing an essence of bitter they seemed to have needed? What styles?

Nice quote by the way!

Not really missing anything, but they were APA's with quite a lot of hops in them to begin with (Cascade in a couple and Amarillo in one). I don't know how that technique would translate to other styles.

 

[Cyclman]

I have found that lots of late hopping, or lots of dry hopping, can give a bit of a vegetal flavor at first (but it went away with time). If you're using enough hops to achieve those IBUs, I suspect you're right if you're water is off. Try it with RO or spring water (there are recipes of how to make RO water "brewing water"), see what happens.

 

[Queequeg]

I have done 20mins onward only before and the beer was plenty bitter enough

 

[ericbw]

Are you sure the partial boil calculations are correct? Maybe you're not getting as much bitterness as you think because of the boil size?

Is there a limit to how much can be extracted in a given size boil? Anyone?

Maybe 100 IBU is just going too far, and you've broken sort of barrier on the hop/time/space continuum.

 

[Yooper]

Are you sure the partial boil calculations are correct? Maybe you're not getting as much bitterness as you think because of the boil size?

Is there a limit to how much can be extracted in a given size boil? Anyone?

Maybe 100 IBU is just going too far, and you've broken sort of barrier on the hop/time/space continuum.

The theoretical limit is about 100 IBUs, before the wort becomes satuation with hops oils and they no longer isomerize, but in most cases the actual IBUs are less. Even Pliny the Elder, which calculates out to 250 IBUs in theory has been measured at 85 IBUs in a lab.

In a partial boil, even if you could get 100 IBUs into the wort (and you probably can't), diluting it reduces it. As an example, and to make the math easy, say you had a 2.5 gallon boil. For the sake of argument, say you actually good get 100 IBUs in there. When you then top up to 5 gallons, with 2.5 gallons of 0 IBU water, that makes the IBUs immediately drop to 50. And that's a best case scenario. The actual IBUs are probably more like 40, due to the maximum isomerization of hops oils and dilution.

 

[ericbw]

The theoretical limit is about 100 IBUs, before the wort becomes satuation with hops oils and they no longer isomerize, but in most cases the actual IBUs are less. Even Pliny the Elder, which calculates out to 250 IBUs in theory has been measured at 85 IBUs in a lab.



In a partial boil, even if you could get 100 IBUs into the wort (and you probably can't), diluting it reduces it. As an example, and to make the math easy, say you had a 2.5 gallon boil. For the sake of argument, say you actually good get 100 IBUs in there. When you then top up to 5 gallons, with 2.5 gallons of 0 IBU water, that makes the IBUs immediately drop to 50. And that's a best case scenario. The actual IBUs are probably more like 40, due to the maximum isomerization of hops oils and dilution.

That's exactly what I was thinking. And that's not really all that bitter.

Also, depends on the age and condition of the hops. Lots of unknowns.

 

[rodwha]

I used 75% distilled water.

I had about 1/3 top off water which would then put me somewhere around 60+ IBU's.

I'm not sure how precise Brewtoad's calculations are (the gravity seems close enough) but their IBU reduction doesn't follow Yooper's statement.

 

[ericbw]

I used 75% distilled water.

I had about 1/3 top off water which would then put me somewhere around 60+ IBU's.

I'm not sure how precise Brewtoad's calculations are (the gravity seems close enough) but their IBU reduction doesn't follow Yooper's statement.

I think you can change how it calculates IBUs. Maybe that's the difference?

 

[ABVIBUSRM]

I had read on a British forum how it's not uncommon to begin hopping at 30 mins or less. Then I heard from someone here on HBT that there's a CA brewery doing this with their IPA. "Really? All in!" So I tried it…

I brewed up an IPA with equal amounts of hops at 30, 20, 10, and 5 mins with an IBU level supposedly just past 100 (partial boil) according to Brewtoad, which does reduce the IBU's a little when using top off.

What I get is a bit of a strange overall flavor and a big part almost seems to me to be a lack of bitterness. It could very well be my mashing though as I was new to jacking with the water and forgot to doctor up my water until about 15 mins in.

I'm willing to try again, but am wondering if my sense of lack of bitterness isn't spot on. Maybe a smaller test batch is in order…

Any of you ditch the bittering addition?

I never missed a bittering addition..but if you need some hop punch you can make a hop tincture using high proof grain alcohol such as everclear..add some cold hops to a glass and cover with cold everclear and shake for 30 seconds..drain thru a coffee filter and add a few drops to your glass of beer and that will help bitter it up

 

[rodwha]

Nice tip! Thanks!