Foam about 3 seconds after i start first pour

[iron26328]

Have a new Kegerator and am trying to get the first pour perfect. I have followed all the foamy pour threads and none quite match my problem. I have installed a cooling fan into my tower and am running about 12 feet of line with 15 or 16 lbs pressure. Any lower pressure and air bubbles appear in my beer line. Every thing is working great, but a few seconds after I begin to pour my first beer, I can see a burst of foam coming from the tap. It starts off ok and the overall pressure appears ok. Is it possible that when I start the pour and once the beer in the line is out that the first amount from the keg is somehow shooting a blast of foam? This is only the first pour and it doesn't appear to be the first part of the pour that appears to be everyone else's problem. Second pours are perfect. Why would it shoot foam a little bit into the first pour? There appears to be no air in the beer line.

 

[carsonwarstler]

Maybe spray all of your connections down w a sanitized solution and see if you've got a hole or leak anywhere. If you see bubbles, tighten, resell or whatever fixes the connection. Also, check your line for a tiny crack or hole, almost seems like its pulling oxygen in from somewhere. In my opinion

 

[iron26328]

Thanks for the reply. On closer inspection, I realized a small number of bubbles were still appearing in my line. So I increased the pressure to a little over 16 lbs. so rather than having a leak, I just need this much pressure to keep air out of the line. After reading many posts in different forums over the past month, I saw only one where someone was told to crank up his pressure to close to 20. And he got quite a few replies that said that was crazy. Do you find it strange I need 17lbs of pressure to keep my line free of air? Not many people seem to need this much pressure. Putting in a 12 foot 3/16" line works with this pressure, so I guess all is good?

 

[carsonwarstler]

I'm not an expert on this matter but I did some messing around with my set up recently. Try some hose clamps where your lines connect, they may feel tight but try to tighten them down a little more, could help.

On the note of psi. I've heard if you use 1-2psi per foot of line you're good. So in your case, if its a 12 line, you'll need anywhere from 12-24 psi. I use a 6 ft line and set it at 12psi at the beginning of a keg but usually drop it around to 5-6 psi for a slow pour... 12 usually adds a lot of foam. So yes, if 17 works for you, nothing wrong with that as long as your beer is pouring fine.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

Those bubbles that you see are co2 releasing out of suspension not o2 contaminating your brew.
IMO 16psi is a little high and will start to overcarb your beer if left that high for an extended period of time.

I actually have the same problem after about 3-4oz are poured i get a shot of foam (nothing i would call a "burst")
I think its the fluid that was in the diptube expanding in the line and hitting the slightly warmer fluid up in the lines.
Dont bother me much and shouldn't effect head if poured correctly.
I also only have 6ft lines and push at about 8-10psi

 

[carsonwarstler]

Those bubbles that you see are co2 releasing out of suspension not o2 contaminating your brew.
IMO 16psi is a little high and will start to overcarb your beer if left that high for an extended period of time.

I actually have the same problem after about 3-4oz are poured i get a shot of foam (nothing i would call a "burst")
I think its the fluid that was in the diptube expanding in the line and hitting the slightly warmer fluid up in the lines.
Dont bother me much and shouldn't effect head if poured correctly.
I also only have 6ft lines and push at about 8-10psi

Good point about over carbonating. Leaving at 17 would increase the volume of co2 in your beer.... Depending on what you carbonated to begin with.

 

[GotPushrods]

If you find that you need higher pressure with a 12' 3/16" line, you might try 1/4" line of the same length. It has less restriction per foot and you will likely be able to get away with a lower pressure more suited for the carb level you're after.

The best option is to ask the shop where you bought your beer line for the specs. You will be able to calculate the length of line you need for the pressure you want. Start with pressure/carb. level and let the line diameter and length be secondary. Don't let your beer line determine your carbonation level.

 

[iron26328]

Thanks for all the advice. I did start out with a 6' line. The reason I had to get to 17 lbs of pressure was that with any less than that the CO2 would push out of the keg and into my line. So I increased the pressure (which happened to be about 17lbs) to keep only beer in my line with no bubbles in the line. But because of that, I had to increase the length of the line. It sounds like no one else has the problem of CO2 entering their beer line. Is there anything that would cause such a problem? If its just something I have to live with, then I'll have to keep the pressure at 17. And if I do - This may be a dumb question, but what happens if your beer is 'overcarbed'? The beer I have is an IPA, bought at a local microbrew. Not yet brewing my own. I'd like to nail the pouring to perfection before trying my hand at my own stuff.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Thanks for all the advice. I did start out with a 6' line. The reason I had to get to 17 lbs of pressure was that with any less than that the CO2 would push out of the keg and into my line. So I increased the pressure (which happened to be about 17lbs) to keep only beer in my line with no bubbles in the line. But because of that, I had to increase the length of the line. It sounds like no one else has the problem of CO2 entering their beer line. Is there anything that would cause such a problem? If its just something I have to live with, then I'll have to keep the pressure at 17. And if I do - This may be a dumb question, but what happens if your beer is 'overcarbed'? The beer I have is an IPA, bought at a local microbrew. Not yet brewing my own. I'd like to nail the pouring to perfection before trying my hand at my own stuff.

Why are you afraid of CO2 bubbles in your lines?

The only thing that hasnt been discussed here is your temperatures.

17PSI is just crazy and way too high, that needs to come down to like 8-12PSI

 

[zachattack]

Step 1: Use a carbonation chart or calculator to determine the proper PSI to keep your beer at

Step 2: Adjust your system so that you can pour well at this pressure.

Adjust your system based on your beer, not the other way around. 12 feet of 3/16" ID line should be good. With that length your pours will be a little slow, but you shouldn't have foaming issues.

If you're seeing CO2 bubbles in the line, it means either the lines are warmer than the keg (if you have a fan in there this shouldn't be the case) or it means the beer is overcarbonated compared to the pressure that you currently have the keg at, so the CO2 leaves the solution to try and balance the pressure and re-equilibrate.

Don't keep turning up the pressure, you'll just overcarb it further. Look up the proper pressure for your desired carb level and the beer temperature, if you're seeing bubbles in the line it means you've overcarbed the keg. In that case, it's a simple matter of disconnecting the gas and purging the keg every once in a while for the next couple days. Re-connect the gas and try again.

This is why many of us advocate the "set and forget" carbonation method.

 

[brrman]

zach is on the money here...
You need less pressure. At 17 psi you have over carbonated your beer. When you then turn the pressure down, bubbles appear because the co2 is coming out of suspension because the beer has higher pressure than the line.

You need to reduce the amount of co2 volume in the beer in your keg, then figure out the correct volume you need, and set it to that.

I have 9' of line. I carb and serve at 10psi.

To un-carb, in the past I have simply shaken the keg, bled off the pressure, repeat, until I got down to the pressure I needed.

 

[brycelarson]

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

Sounds like you're creating a new problem solving a problem that didn't exist.

The norm of using 6' of line on your taps is based on the attached carbonation chart. 6' feet of line matches up pretty well with most common carbonation pressures if you're holding your beer in the higher 30s to about 40.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/keg-line-length-balancing-the-science-of-draft-beer/

good article about balancing pressure.

 

[zachattack]

Many people have found that the standard 5-6' of 3/16" ID line is insufficient. The only disadvantage of a longer line is a slower pour, lots of people have 12 feet of line and it works great for foam-free pours at many different carb levels. If he's keeping the lines cold, the only problem here is that the beer is overcarbonated.

 

[iron26328]

Very interesting. Thanks for all the great information. Not sure I completely understand, but I will give it a try. Question- what happens to the beer if it is overcarbed? At the moment, I've got great tasting beer at the high psi level and the 12' lines. So I will try 1)shutting off the co2 pressure, 2) bleed the pressure from the keg, 3) shake the keg a little, 4) bleed the keg again, and 5) turn the pressure back on to about 10 or 12 psi. Then I shouldn't have air bubbles coming from the keg up into the line. Sound right? The problem with the bubbles in the line is that it causes a foam burst. (kind of like what happens when you turn on a hose when it has some air pockets in it)