Fly sparging

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xxdcmast

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I am looking for some more information on fly sparging. I think i understand the basics of it but I would like to read some more.

As far as I know fly sparging is basically draining away the wort from the mash tun at the same rate as you are rinsing the grains with the water coming from the HLT. So basicaly the level of water in the MLT stays the same while you are draining off the sugar saturated wort.

Do you vorhlauf before begining fly sparging?

What else might I be missing?
 
That's about it. I heat my HLT stock pot on the stove, pour into a 1gal pitcher as needed, and pour the pitcher into my cheap sparge arm and open the ball valve on my MLT slightly to drain slowly. I try to keep about an inch of water above the grain bed. Works for me. I got 84% efficiency twice in a row the first 2 times using this one, at 1.5 qt/lb. Simple and effective.

sparging.jpg


spargearm2.jpg
 
You've got the basics of fly sparging, but it helps to understand some of the gotchas.

With batch sparging, you start by vorlaufing, and draining the first runnings. The gravity of these runnings should be pretty high, and will remain more or less constant during the drain. Then you add a "batch" of sparge water, stir, vorlauf, and drain again. The gravity of these runnings will be lower than the first runnings, but again will remain fairly constant. If necessary, add another batch, stir, vorlauf, and drain again etc. The gravity of the runnings from each batch will be lower than the previous.

With fly sparging, you vorlauf once before starting the sparge, and then drain the wort out of the lauter tun while adding sparge water at the same rate as it is draining. In this case, the gravity of the runnings decreases as the sparge progresses. The gravity decreases slowly at the start of the sparge, but more rapidly as the sparge progresses.

The big difference between the two methods is the way in which the sugars are dissolved into the wort.

With batch sparging, the sugars are dissolved by the stirring, while with fly sparging, the sugars are dissolved by the sparge water gently flowing through the grain bed.

For fly sparging to work efficiently, it is necessary that the sparge water flows evenly through the entire grain bed so that it can rinse the sugars out of all the grain. This means that the sparge water has to be delivered across the entire surface area of the grain. I use a rotating sparge arm which works well. I think ODaniel's solution would work just as well, and save a few bucks. There are also other methods that would work, and the purpose of keeping a couple inches of sparge water above the grain bed is simply to prevent the sparge water delivery mechanism from drilling holes in the top of the grain bed, and providing an easy path for the sparge water to reach the bottom. This is called channeling, and if it happens can severely reduce your efficiency.

The next thing to consider is the collection mechanism at the bottom of the lauter tun. The best device is a false bottom that collects wort evenly across the whole of the bottom of the tun. Next best is a manifold with cross bars that doesn't leave any substantial gaps where wort will not be collected from. The worst method of collection is a braid, but even these can work with fly sparging if they are long enough, and meander around the bottom of the tun to provide a good collection area.

Then, you have to pay attention to the flow rate. If you add and drain water too quickly, it will find the easiest way from the top to the bottom, resulting in channeling, and leaving some of the grain unrinsed. In the on line version of How to Brew, Palmer says 1 qt per minute is most common.
In the book, he states that 1 qt per minute is the maximum. In my experience, the flow rate is dependent on the collection area. (A larger area allows a faster flow) With my 5g cooler MLT with a false bottom, I cannot exceed 1 pint per minute without getting channeling. With my 10g cooler MLT, I can get up to 1.75 pints per minute (possibly more).

Finally, I can get about 5% better efficiency with fly sparging than with batch (with an OG of ~1.050). If you don't have a setup that is optimal for fly sparging, you may well get better efficiency in less time with a batch sparge. On the other hand, I get the same efficiency when fly sparging with high gravity brews (~1.080) although I have to sparge slower. Although I have never tried it, I believe that efficiency decreases when batch sparging with higher gravity brews.

Hope this helps

-a.
 
Do you think a rotating sparge arm is important if you are keeping a couple inches of water above the grain bed?

PS: I use CPVC with a T that doesn't turn. I have about 20 holes drilled in the horizontal portion and drain about 1 qt per minute with a false bottom....
 
Do you think a rotating sparge arm is important if you are keeping a couple inches of water above the grain bed?

PS: I use CPVC with a T that doesn't turn. I have about 20 holes drilled in the horizontal portion and drain about 1 qt per minute with a false bottom....
No I don't think it is important. It's one way to deliver water, and it works well, but there are plenty of other ways that will work just as well especially if you keep a bit of water above the grain bed.

-a.
 
Frankly, the only thing that nifty sparge arms and drip manifolds do is cool off your sparge water and grainbed. I don't think gently delivering the water through a hose to the top water would cause channeling any more than the sprinkle method.
 
Anyone have any feedback on fly sparging by draping the outlet hose around the inside of the cooler right on top of the grain and just letting the water flow in a whirlpool? I understand that is the method recommended by Sabco (which I do NOT have). I'm thinking of trying it with my first AG batch later this month.
 
As long as you keep a few inches of water above your grain-bed, and sparge slowly, it doesn't really matter that much if you deliver the water equally to the grain-bed surface. I simply fill up a bottling bucket with my sparge water and set the flow rate out of the bottling bucket to be approx. equal to the flow rate out of the mash tun. The sparge water out of the bottling bucket sprinkles lightly right into the middle of the 2-3 inch deep pool of water right on top of the grain bed. My efficiencies are usually good 80 - 85%, so I'm happy with this method, and it doesn't require any extra equipment. But the crossed and rotating sparge arms are definitely pretty nifty.
 
Cost me like $3. I don't have a valve on my HTL and I don't want the temp the drop when I put it in a bottling bucket. I turn the heat on the stove down and it keeps the temp throughout the process. I'll stick to what works for me and results in consistent 84% efficiency.
 
Does it matter if you completely drain the MLT?

What I mean is sometimes I have extra water in my HLT and continue the sparge until I get the amount of pre boil wort that I want. When I stop, there may be another gallon in the MLT. I just wonder if this would effect efficiency...

Also does it matter if you were to have 5 or 6 inches of water on top of the grain bed while fly sparging instead of the 1 or 2 inches?
 
I usually have a lot of water in the MLT at the end of the sparge because I monitor the gravity of my runnings as I sparge, and stop when they get down to 1.008 - 1.010 in order to prevent tannin extraction. (A refractometer is excellent for this.) Assuming that you stop at the gravity limit, there will just be a small amount of very week wort at the bottom of the MLT, but the vast majority of the liquid will just be water, so it has virtually no effect on efficiency.
Of course, if you reach the final volume and your gravity is higher than the cut-off point, then you will be leaving some sugars behind, or collecting extra wort to boil down. (This is usually only a problem with very high gravity brews, or faulty equipment/technique.) This has never happened to me, but if it did, I think I would stop the sparge, and make up any gravity shortage with some DME. Of course, you could also do a parti gyle.

As for having extra water on top of the grain bed, I don't think that would make any difference. It will eventually do it's job when it percolates down to the bottom.

-a.
 
You can always save and freeze any extra wort in your MLT and use it for yeast starters. I always save the last runnings...about 2 quarts or so for a 5-6 gal. batch. The last runnings are always the lowest quality and I always need wort for yeast starters so I just use that.
 
If I were going to do that, I'd take it out of the MLT before freezing. :D
But I don't think I would like to make a starter out of a wort with a gravity < 1.010

-a.
 
True, if your last runnings are that low then you'd have to boil it down quite a bit. The wort I save and freeze (ya, save it first lol) is usually 1.020 or a bit higher so once I boil it a bit it's fine for starters.
 
I have heard that channeling is not a problem at the homebrew level because of the small size of the vessels we use. Its more of an issue at the commercial level.
 
I have about the most ghetto fly sparging setup you can imagine, and I get about 80% efficiency usually.

I'm using the two bucket Charlie Papazian Zapap system, which I made myself with my handydandy drill.

I never got around to investing in a sparge arm, so my method is as follows:

Stand between HLT and lauter tun. Every minute or so, dip a pot into HLT and retrieve about 1 pint of hot water. Grab a tupperware lid and use it to ghetto sprinkle the water around the grain surface and keep it from channeling. Do this about 50 times over the course of 60-90 minutes.

Result is 80% efficiency. It's more labor intensive, but it works.
 
I have heard that channeling is not a problem at the homebrew level because of the small size of the vessels we use. Its more of an issue at the commercial level.

You haven't happened to you yet. It's real. It happens. All it takes is to runoff a little bit too quickly or to let your water level get too low with a less than ideal water delivery set up.

I periodically cut the top of the grain bed with my mash paddle as the sparge is going. This reduces the chance of channeling.
 
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