Flash boiler project #2

[ScubaSteve]

Good point...for that matter you could just use a sight glass in the BK to measure initially, then get a nice sparge/mashout with just the FB going into the MLT. It looks to me like kladue is really trying to do step mashes with his. If I see it right, it looks like the steam mixer really is just a few added tees and compression fittings, with a site glass for coolness. It could easily be added after the fact.

I plan on just filling my HLT with mine, as hot as I can get it. By the time everything equalizes in the HLT and then the MLT, I'm sure I'll be hitting strike temps easily.

 

[kladue]

Both old and new system have a cold water tank that holds all water needed for brewing session, pump moves water through flow meter then to boiler into mash tun. Old system has a ghetto level indicator (cork float with marked ss welding rod), new system is electronic level transmitter. If you undershoot temp, fire circulation pump, cut water flow to 2 gph and make steam to heat water, all water used comes from tank so you can not exceed water quantity for batch, the more you use in mash the less you use in sparge at end.

 

[FSR402]

Both old and new system have a cold water tank that holds all water needed for brewing session, pump moves water through flow meter then to boiler into mash tun. Old system has a ghetto level indicator (cork float with marked ss welding rod), new system is electronic level transmitter. If you undershoot temp, fire circulation pump, cut water flow to 2 gph and make steam to heat water, all water used comes from tank so you can not exceed water quantity for batch, the more you use in mash the less you use in sparge at end.

The problem I have with that is this..
1. I don't have a pump and it may be a year before I get one.
2. The way you are adjusting the temp you are basicly doing a infusion of steam to heat it up more thus you are changing your grain to water rate. Not something I want to do. If I'm using a rate of 1.25/1 then that's what I'm going to have.

Now once I do get a pump I'll look more into the recurc idea.

 

[kladue]

I started out using 2 corney kegs in series and comperssed air to move water through boiler, filled corney's with batch water, measured water in tun at start, then ran boiler until water ran out during sparge. Here is a shot of the old mixer made from 3- 1/2" swagelok tees, steam in on right, wort in middle, mix out left side, black cable is sensor for love control used for temperature indication.Picasa Web Albums - Kevin - Instant water...

 

[kladue]

During the step mash steam production there is less than 1 quart of water used per step, not a big impact on mash water ratio. This system grew out of need to get away from lifting 5+ gallons of 180 degree water to top of stand for gravity system.

 

[FSR402]

During the step mash steam production there is less than 1 quart of water used per step, not a big impact on mash water ratio. This system grew out of need to get away from lifting 5+ gallons of 180 degree water to top of stand for gravity system.

That's why I have a 3 tier rig that's all piped for water. All I do is open a valve and the water fills the HLT and the sight glass tells me when to turn it off.

You have some really cool stuff man.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Both old and new system have a cold water tank that holds all water needed for brewing session, pump moves water through flow meter then to boiler into mash tun. Old system has a ghetto level indicator (cork float with marked ss welding rod), new system is electronic level transmitter. If you undershoot temp, fire circulation pump, cut water flow to 2 gph and make steam to heat water, all water used comes from tank so you can not exceed water quantity for batch, the more you use in mash the less you use in sparge at end.

So basically instead of a HLT, you've got a CLT. What if you hooked a flowmeter to your supply hose? You could measure your input to the boiler, which would more or less be equal to the amount you'd pour into the MLT for strike water.

So, kladue, what was wrong with the old FB that made you decide to basically double the amount of coil and increase the height as seen in your new FB? It seems you're focusing on steam, so was that just a better way to make it? I just want 7-10 gallons of near boiling water in 10-15 mins. What kind of tubing diameters and lengths do you think would be best for such a task? I'd like to stay away from the super high pressures and dangers of steam, but if it gets near producing steam, so be it.

 

[kladue]

The old boiler will bring .25 gpm from 50 Deg F to boil temp, new system has tested out to .5 gpm @ 165, the SS tube was used because of known performance with old boiler. Operating scenario is .5 gpm@165 for strike water, .05 gpm for superheated steam for step mashing, and .2 gpm @175 for sparge water. This system is designed to run without outlet flow control and significant back pressure for safety reasons. I have purposely dry fired the ss coils to orange heat and hit them with cold water to test for failure in tubing and fittings before sharing design and pictures as I figured it would eventually happen to some one. The ss tube is much more malleable than the hard drawn copper and will make nice coils and short radius bends without flattening. Have about 400 feet of 1/4" hard drawn copper tube left over from previous project, but not the time to build 4 new copper coils for new boiler. Probably will make 4-20' coils of soft copper and replace ss coils after phase 2 system is running.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I went back last night with an actual tubing bender and redid my coils. It still isn't pretty, but the coils are all over the tube and there's no open space. That thing was totally worth $12. I still have blisters on my hands from trying to bend by hand...

 

[FSR402]

I went back last night with an actual tubing bender and redid my coils. It still isn't pretty, but the coils are all over the tube and there's no open space. That thing was totally worth $12. I still have blisters on my hands from trying to bend by hand...

Got pics?

I uncoiled mine Thursday night and last night I recoiled half of it around a 3" pvc pipe then tried to stick into a 4" pipe so I could coil it around the outside of that. It did not work so well. After getting only a few feet inside the bigger pipe I gave up and then had a hell of a time getting it back out. Kinked the tube bad. So I cut it into two pices and took the 2nd half and coiled it around the 4" pipe.
Put the one inside the other and now need to join them with a compression fitting. Hope it seals up good.

 

[FSR402]

Got mine back together. I have one section 25' coiled at 3 inches, one 25 foot section coiled at 4" then I took an 18 foot section I had left over from the first try and hooked that to the 3" coil that was inside the 4" coil.
I then ran the 18 foot part around the whole mess the long way crossing over on the upper and lower ends and hooked that into that 4" section.

So now the water will go in the bottom, coil it's way up then com down one side, across to the other and back up. It will do this 4 times before entering the larger 4" coil and coiling back down to the bottom and out.

68 feet of copper tube.

Did not get a chance to test it yet, heading over to a friend's place for dinner and beers.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Well, here's my pics of my jury-rigged version: hawkie333/HOMEBREWING/FLASH BOILER - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

I did this on a 35F day...so it was the ultimate test. It took me roughly 40 mins to get 9 gallons of 140F water. If I slowed the input down to really heat the water up, it erupted in steam, which was counterproductive in filling the HLT. I might put this project on the shelf for a while, because I'm going to see how a bucket heater on a timer combined with about 10 mins of propane heating works for me. Be sure to post pics of when you guys fire up your boilers. It sounds like you're using way more tubing and taller chimneys, so I'd be interested in the results.

 

[FSR402]

Looking at your pics I think your biggest problem is that you have the coldest water hitting the hottest part of the tube. The cold water is sucking all the heat right out of that tube and as it moves away from the flame it's not getting any or much hotter.

 

[FSR402]

I just tried to do a test of the new coils and I have a leak. So I have to pull it back apart and fix it. Guess I should have checked that before putting it back together.

 

[talleymonster]

I'm dead set on making one of these.

Do you guys think it would work as well with 1/4" copper? I'm thinking of using 50' of 1/4" copper tubing.
I just think it would be easier to coil the 1/4" and then fan it out in opposing directions than it would be to do it with 3/8" or 1/2".

I like the idea of having an inline valve to help regulate the flow.

 

[WortMonger]

Yep, this is on my list of projects. Just thinking and drawing it out right now to tinker with.

 

[CatchinZs]

I just picked up 50' of 3/8 off of Craigslist for 25 bucks.

I'll be making one of these for sure.

 

[FSR402]

I got to use it for the first time yesterday and it worked great.
The water went into the HLT within 10* of what I wanted and then I used the burner under the HLT to adjust the temp.
When I was filling the sparge water I hit the temp going in right on so there was no waiting :rockin:
I would say that this knocked at least an hour off the brew but I don't know for sure because I did back to back 10 gallon brews so it was a long day either way.

 

[ScubaSteve]

So how long would you say it took to fill your HLT? All in all, it looks like you're on to something....

Your burner on top is bolted down, right?

 

[FSR402]

So how long would you say it took to fill your HLT? All in all, it looks like you're on to something....

Your burner on top is bolted down, right?

It took less then 5 minutes to get 26qt into the HLT at 160-175*.

Yes the top burner is bolted down.

 

[kladue]

If you want to copy the boilers that have been built with 1/4" tube here are a couple pointers, coil the tube around 2" pvc pipe in tight coils, stretch the coils to 1" space between coils, mesh all four coils together and use a dowel to keep coils together as you spread them out to create a four leaf clover pattern in chimmney tube. Once the tubes are secured in the inlet and outlet fittings you can remove the dowell and the coils should stay in position. If you want to copy the cross fitting in swagelok like I have used and have trouble finding the components pm me and I will help out.

 

[BeerCanuck]

Thought I would give a bump to this thread.
I am trying to understand the the coiling instructions kladue gave above. The meshing of 4 coils together using a dowel to achieve a clover leaf pattern I have a hard time picturing.

Cheers
Steve

 

[kladue]

Here's what i did, rolled 4 individual coils around 2" pvc pipe, spread coils 4 tube diameters apart, meshed all 4 coils to make tube, put dowell down center and pulled each of the coils away from center to get cloverleaf pattern. Here is a top down shot of the old boiler if it helps Picasa Web Albums - Kevin - Instant water... A suggestion is to leave dowell in center until coils are joined together, then pull dowell and fine tune individual coils. The wrapping of the coils is the easy part, when you mesh 4 coils it can be a struggle to get them meshed evenly.

 

[BeerCanuck]

I was looking at that top view of your boiler...impressive probably beyond my build skills kladue. I was wondering how the plate chiller panned out that was mentioned earlier in this thread earlier? I was thinking that if you could place a chill plate on a stove element with the input prefiltered water it might cut down of heat up times.

Cheers
Steve

 

[FSR402]

I was looking at that top view of your boiler...impressive probably beyond my build skills kladue. I was wondering how the plate chiller panned out that was mentioned earlier in this thread earlier? I was thinking that if you could place a chill plate on a stove element with the input prefiltered water it might cut down of heat up times.

Cheers
Steve

I'm not sure how well that would work. I have found that the water can really zap the heat out of the tube fast. So I'm thinking that it wont have enough contact time. Give it a shot and tell us how it works.

 

[pickles]

any new info on the system?

 

[FSR402]

Not from me.
I have been useing this for every brew from 10 gallon batches to 35 gallon batches. It works great.
I have even used it after my pump. I have pumped from the MLT thru the FB and back into the MLT to do a "mash out" and then have also pumped from the MLT thru the FB and into the kettle to get the wort closer to a boil as I was fly sparging.

When I get time and some extra cash I'm going to make another one but about half the size just for the mashout part. It works the way it is but I always do back to back brews so if I'm running the mash thru it I can't use it for the water. So I need two of them. Plus the shorter size should make my pump not work so hard.

 

[eriktlupus]

i was wondering when you'd decide to set up a second flash. i think it would help you immensely for heating sparge water also. since it would allow you to heat a second batch while sparging with the first on your really big brews.



are you gonna host a gathering in sept? check the michigan preds thread in gatherings.

 

[thekingofspain]

Why did I build a keggle HLT? This is much better. To piggy back on the plate chiller idea, <cough> I have prechiller that is an Impala Heater core (yes this is for a car) that <cough> might work. The heater core costs $28 at auto nation and looks like copper. Only issue I see is tubing and closeness to the flame. I have some extra 9/16 silicon tuning laying around from a misshipment that I could experiment with.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=310164594199

 

[kladue]

The heater core idea is good, the problem is the lead solder holding things together, you might look for an oil or transmission cooler with aluminum or copper tubing and no solder joints.