First Wine attempt, no boiling?

[JINKS]

Ok I'm coming from the beer side of this world to try to make my first wine from a cornucopia kit. Beer you boil to sanitize the wort why do my instructions not say to boil the must to sanitize? Isn't there a risk of infection just like with wort? Does boiling create some problem compounds?

 

[DoctorCAD]

The must is sanitized before it is packed, no issues as long as your equipment is clean.

 

[JINKS]

Well I started this Raspberry Pinot Nero today supposed to be a 4 week kit. Hopefully I won't get infected due to no boiling. (I sanitized the @#$%&# out of everything) Using my beer bottling bucket as a primary and in around a week (1.020 - 1.000 gravity) as per instructions I'll rack to a carboy.

 

[DoctorCAD]

4 weeks until bottling (and thats really pushing it), not drinking.

If you wait a few more weeks in the carboy, a lot of issues will resolve them selves.

 

[JINKS]

Discovered today that I don't like using a bucket as a primary. I had absolutely no idea if the ferment even started because the lid leaks so much air the airlock never bubbled. I pulled the lid and the ferment has gotten going. Guess I'm glass carboy spoiled, the minute it starts to ferment the co2 has nowhere to go but through the airlock and you get a visible sign that things have started.

At the end of the week as per instructions I will use a hydrometer to check gravity.

 

[bernardsmith]

boiling fruit results in jam. There is no need to boil fruit to sanitize it. Even if you use freshly pressed fruit the only thing you need to add is K-meta.
You should be using an hydrometer to measure the drop in gravity when you make wine and not be counting the frequency of the gas burping in the airlock. If you have any fruit in your must you want to make sure that the fruit is constantly soaking in the must and the yeast is well distributed. Those are two reasons that wine makers often use a bucket as their primary. Being able to stir the must two or three times a day to incorporate air is a third reason (I know - heresy for brewers of beer) and a fourth reason is that stirring your must forces CO2 to be expelled and that seems to assist the yeast a tad by increasing the pH of the must. You also want to be able to easily add nutrient without creating volcanoes caused by the nucleation of CO2 around the powder. So five reasons why most wine makers prefer to use buckets... but yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance...

 

[JINKS]

You should be using an hydrometer to measure the drop in gravity when you make wine and not be counting the frequency of the gas burping in the airlock.

Yea everybody says this,
I have a hydrometer and I use it but I also like seeing signs of life which my glass carboy gives me. I know that you can't use the frequency of bubbles to judge fermentation but you can see by the bubbling that fermentation has started.
I had no idea if the yeast in the kit was even alive as there was NO signs of life in airlock, I had to pull the lid potentially contaminating the must just to make sure it was even fermenting.

OG was 1.055 at the high end of what the kit instructions said it would be.

 

[JINKS]

boiling fruit results in jam. There is no need to boil fruit to sanitize it. Even if you use freshly pressed fruit the only thing you need to add is K-meta.
You should be using an hydrometer to measure the drop in gravity when you make wine and not be counting the frequency of the gas burping in the airlock. If you have any fruit in your must you want to make sure that the fruit is constantly soaking in the must and the yeast is well distributed. Those are two reasons that wine makers often use a bucket as their primary. Being able to stir the must two or three times a day to incorporate air is a third reason (I know - heresy for brewers of beer) and a fourth reason is that stirring your must forces CO2 to be expelled and that seems to assist the yeast a tad by increasing the pH of the must. You also want to be able to easily add nutrient without creating volcanoes caused by the nucleation of CO2 around the powder. So five reasons why most wine makers prefer to use buckets... but yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance...

No fruit in my kit just juice.
No nutrient powders just liquid packs
Kit instructions say to let splash when racking to secondary to add air.
I have a de-gasser that will insert into my carboy.
First wine so I'm obsessive about following directions.

 

[bernardsmith]

Brewers tend to be near psychotic in their paranoia about possible infections of their brew. Wine makers tend to be far more laid back - perhaps because fruit must is far more acidic than beer or perhaps because the temperatures they work with are not those that invite bacterial and fungal spoilage. In any event the yeasts we use tend to create environments that favor the yeasts we inoculate the must with and disfavor other wild yeasts and bacteria. Moreover, we tend to use K-meta to sanitize and that inhibits the presence of other volunteer microbes.
All that said, I don't make kits but I would nevertheless follow the instructions of the kit manufacturer. If you follow their instructions (at least the first couple of times) and there is a problem you are not at fault. If you fail to follow their instructions and something untoward happens they are free to shrug and say the blame lies with you.

 

[WVMJ]

Usually when a beer guy switches over to making wine they have very very good hygenic habits and do a good job. When a winemaker makes beer but with winemaking habits they can get into a little bit of trouble but we always have KM to drop in at the hint of anything bad going on. Get over not boiling everything, all your gear is already beer clean so you wont have a problem, and use your hydrometer to determine the fermentation not bubbles. Guess what else we do, we can put a cloth over the top of the bucket without a lid just to keep the flies out during primary. That would keep most of you beer dudes up worrying all night something was going to jump into your bucket WVMJ

 

[JINKS]

and use your hydrometer to determine the fermentation not bubbles. WVMJ

So the hydrometer will show a change in 12 hours or less from start? I've never tried it that soon.
Bubbles usually show in my carboy airlock by that time so I know the yeast wasn't dead and fermentation has started. What if the yeast in the kit was bad and I waited a week to check gravity as per instructions? Could something nasty take hold by then and wreck the wine?
I like to see bubbles to know the ferment started but I don't use them to judge fermentation.
Not gonna change no matter how many people say "use a hydrometer" old habit of mine and I'm to old to change now.

 

[JINKS]

Guess what else we do, we can put a cloth over the top of the bucket without a lid just to keep the flies out during primary. WVMJ

I can't even contemplate that or I will have brewing nightmares.
I remember being in Alaska where the biting flies crawled up your sleeve and bit you anyway. Collar too.

 

[JINKS]

Another question just to satisfy curiosity. Does ferment temp affect the flavor like with beer? If I fermented in the high 70's or more would it cause off flavors, or is that specific to beer making?
Currently at 68° F so not a problem just a hypothetical.

 

[Honda88]

Fermentation temperature is important in both winemaking and brewing. I try and ferment at as low of a temperature as i can without using a cooling unit. If I had the proper equipment I would aim for about 60 F. In the basement I usually get around 68 degrees.

 

[JINKS]

Fermentation temperature is important in both winemaking and brewing. I try and ferment at as low of a temperature as i can without using a cooling unit. If I had the proper equipment I would aim for about 60 F. In the basement I usually get around 68 degrees.

Thats good to know.
This particular kit says to keep between 68° F and 77° F which seemed a little hot so it is in my bedroom with the air conditioner on 24 and 7 set at 68° F.
My ferment chamber has a Oatmeal stout in it for another 3 weeks. I got anxious to try to get this wine kit done so hence it is in my room.

 

[Honda88]

as long as you don't go over 80 you will have a decent product, especially using kits...I just personally like to stay on the cool side of things. cheers

 

[DoctorCAD]

Wine yeast grew up just like you, liking the same environment.

Any temperature in the "comfortable" range for you is OK for wine.

However, with some light wines, cooler is better. Temperature doesn't seem to have as much effect on heavy wines and almost no effect on kit wines.

 

[Yooper]

Wine yeast grew up just like you, liking the same environment.

Any temperature in the "comfortable" range for you is OK for wine.

However, with some light wines, cooler is better. Temperature doesn't seem to have as much effect on heavy wines and almost no effect on kit wines.

I've noticed that too. At a winery I visited, the vintner told me he fermented his whites in the 50s, but the reds at 68 degrees.

I generally ferment fruit wines in the mid 60s, but my kits and reds I try to ferment in the high 60s- 70. I'd even go warmer, but it rarely gets above 68 in my house in the summer and never in the winter!

 

[JINKS]

I've noticed that too. At a winery I visited, the vintner told me he fermented his whites in the 50s, but the reds at 68 degrees.

I generally ferment fruit wines in the mid 60s, but my kits and reds I try to ferment in the high 60s- 70. I'd even go warmer, but it rarely gets above 68 in my house in the summer and never in the winter!

Wow Homebrewtalk royalty in my little ol' thread.

 

[Yooper]

Wow Homebrewtalk royalty in my little ol' thread.

Really?!!? Where?

 

[Honda88]

I see how it is

 

[JINKS]

Should I be stirring the fermenting must to help it along? Kind of a keep the yeast suspended and De-gas at same time?

 

[Honda88]

I stir mine for the first couple days and then i air lock it and leave it alone until it gets too about 1.010.

 

[Yooper]

Should I be stirring the fermenting must to help it along? Kind of a keep the yeast suspended and De-gas at same time?

For that kit, I don't think it matters. I've done that brand only once (found it at the "budget dollar plus" for $18) and while it's a bottom-of-the-barrel quality wise, it's not too bad and the price is generally right. I didn't have any issues with it going to .996 or so within just a few days.

 

[Kee]

I come from the beer making side also and just started on my third wine kit. If I had known how easy it was to make decent wine at such a low cost I would have started sooner. Adding room temperature water still makes me nervous.

The instructions from wine kits still kill me. This kit (Vintners Reserve/World Vineyard) tells me to add "hot water" before the bentonite. For someone that stresses out when mash temperature is off a few degrees this is very disturbing.

 

[JINKS]

I come from the beer making side also and just started on my third wine kit. If I had known how easy it was to make decent wine at such a low cost I would have started sooner. Adding room temperature water still makes me nervous.

The instructions from wine kits still kill me. This kit (Vintners Reserve/World Vineyard) tells me to add "hot water" before the bentonite. For someone that stresses out when mash temperature is off a few degrees this is very disturbing.

I resemble those remarks:rockin:

 

[JINKS]

I'm not a fan of "Real Wines" more of a purple mad dog 20/20 and Annie Greensprings kind of guy. AKA real sweet desert style. I'm definitely more of a beer drinker.
Kits have their own appeal to my hobby side, plus it makes easy Christmas presents.
Oh yea can't forget Boons Farm Strawberry Hill which was my personal favorite as a 19 year old.

 

[JINKS]

Racked to a sanitized bucket and degassed all over the floor with the new drill powered degassing rod several times over 10 minute span. Then I re-racked into a 5 gallon glass carboy (GASP!) where its gonna sit a spell.

 

[JINKS]

Today I degassed added several chemical compounds aka sorbate and such plus a clarifier.
Wine was a .998 and tasted like low quality wine. Had a bit of a strange mouthfeel also. Kinda gritty?
Anyhow added the raspberry juice today also as per instructions and now the wait is on for it to clear.
Instructions say 8 - 10 days, is longer better for taste? I know that just like with beer time = better, but with wine and the yeast sterilized will it still improve?

 

[Yooper]

Today I degassed added several chemical compounds aka sorbate and such plus a clarifier.
Wine was a .998 and tasted like low quality wine. Had a bit of a strange mouthfeel also. Kinda gritty?
Anyhow added the raspberry juice today also as per instructions and now the wait is on for it to clear.
Instructions say 8 - 10 days, is longer better for taste? I know that just like with beer time = better, but with wine and the yeast sterilized will it still improve?

For the low-end kits, aging generally won't improve them beyond just the first couple of weeks or so. Once you bottle, you can wait 30 days or so to get over "bottle shook" (yes, it is a real thing!) but then drink as desired.

The high end kits, with complex flavors and oak and things, usually do take a while to come into their own and improve with age.

 

[JINKS]

For the low-end kits, aging generally won't improve them beyond just the first couple of weeks or so. Once you bottle, you can wait 30 days or so to get over "bottle shook" (yes, it is a real thing!) but then drink as desired.

The high end kits, with complex flavors and oak and things, usually do take a while to come into their own and improve with age.

Hey is there such a thing as a high end sweet or fruit wine? And can you point me to a kit? I wouldn't know a good wine and will happily defer to your experience.

 

[Yooper]

Hey is there such a thing as a high end sweet or fruit wine? And can you point me to a kit? I wouldn't know a good wine and will happily defer to your experience.

Probably! I just don't ever drink sweet wines so I haven't purchased any. If you look at Cellar Craft Showcase kits, that would be a good place to start. I don't think they make "fruit wines", though- just grape wines.

If you want to make fruit wines, they are pretty easy to make and don't come in kits although you can use canned fruit base from winemaking stores.

 

[JINKS]

Got a label or 5. Main problem is with found bottles there are no consistent sizes and my OCD makes me design a different label for each size bottle.

 

[WVMJ]

Like the steam punk designs! OCD in winemaking can be good for keeping things clean, of course if you end up cleaning everything 10 times it might take you a little longer to get done WVMJ

 

[JINKS]

Like the steam punk designs! OCD in winemaking can be good for keeping things clean, of course if you end up cleaning everything 10 times it might take you a little longer to get done WVMJ

Infection free since 1987

 

[JINKS]

Had my first bottle bomb ever today. Not co2 produced, was the dumba$$ running the corker. Cut my hand and foot though not badly.

Note to self: If you see the cork come right back out don't try to force it in deeper so it will stay this time.

 

[Yooper]

Had my first bottle bomb ever today. Not co2 produced, was the dumba$$ running the corker. Cut my hand and foot though not badly.

Note to self: If you see the cork come right back out don't try to force it in deeper so it will stay this time.

Oh, my gosh, I'm glad you're ok!

 

[JINKS]

Wasn't happy with the shape of the wagon label so I changed it.

 

[JINKS]

Some of the many bottles

 

[DoctorCAD]

Jinks, JMO, but unusual fonts are way too hard to read. Took me 2 or 3 tries to figure out what was written across the top of the shaped label.