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First White Stout Attempt

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Andrew Hodgson

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So I was planning on my next brew being a sour of some sort but over the weekend I had this beer for the first time and loved it:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/45814/332966/

I have never brewed a stout or really any English styles All-Grain so poking around the interwebs I realized there really are only a couple articles/recipes out there for something like this, so I figured I'd hodge podge together a recipe and see what the people think or if anyone who has done something like this has any advice:

For 5.5gallons in FV

White Stout:
11lb Marris Otter
.5lb Crystal 20L
.5lb Flaked Oats
.5lb Flaked Barley

Mash @ 154 for 60 minutes.

Boil for 60 minutes adding:
1oz Fuggles @ 60 minutes
1oz Fuggles @ 30 minutes
8oz Lactose @ 15 minutes

Ferment with s-04 (or any English Ale yeast) as normal.

On brew day: Create a vodka tincture with 2 vanilla beans (opened, scraped) and 4oz Cacao nibs, allow to soak for two weeks.

Once primary fermentation has completed, add 8oz coffee beans (whole) and tincture to carboy. Allow to sit another week(?). Package.

A couple questions I have are: I have heard most people recommending to put the coffee beans directly in the beer for secondary, yet I have also heard about oils causing lack of head retention. Since one of the traits of stout we want is the nice even head, does the oil from the beans affect that? Also if anyone has any insights as to contact time with the beans/tincture I have no idea what is appropriate for flavor infusion. Along with any other tips/thoughts/criticisms you may have. All are welcome.
 

Cantina De Jefe

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So I was planning on my next brew being a sour of some sort but over the weekend I had this beer for the first time and loved it:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/45814/332966/

I have never brewed a stout or really any English styles All-Grain so poking around the interwebs I realized there really are only a couple articles/recipes out there for something like this, so I figured I'd hodge podge together a recipe and see what the people think or if anyone who has done something like this has any advice:

For 5.5gallons in FV

White Stout:
11lb Marris Otter
.5lb Crystal 20L
.5lb Flaked Oats
.5lb Flaked Barley

Mash @ 154 for 60 minutes.

Boil for 60 minutes adding:
1oz Fuggles @ 60 minutes
1oz Fuggles @ 30 minutes
8oz Lactose @ 15 minutes

Ferment with s-04 (or any English Ale yeast) as normal.

On brew day: Create a vodka tincture with 2 vanilla beans (opened, scraped) and 4oz Cacao nibs, allow to soak for two weeks.

Once primary fermentation has completed, add 8oz coffee beans (whole) and tincture to carboy. Allow to sit another week(?). Package.

A couple questions I have are: I have heard most people recommending to put the coffee beans directly in the beer for secondary, yet I have also heard about oils causing lack of head retention. Since one of the traits of stout we want is the nice even head, does the oil from the beans affect that? Also if anyone has any insights as to contact time with the beans/tincture I have no idea what is appropriate for flavor infusion. Along with any other tips/thoughts/criticisms you may have. All are welcome.
Maybe a suggestion, but if you are concerned about oils try a decaf version of the coffee. It will have the same flavor but the oils are removed during the decaf process which basically means the beans have been already rinsed in coffee to remove the caffine but leaves the coffee flavor intact.
 
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catdaddy66

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Don’t leave the beans in there for a week! 48 hours max. You run the risk of your beer tasting/smelling like green peppers with contact time that long.
Agree... I have heard 2-3 days will give strong coffee notes. A friend that I have brewed with did one and he did 8oz for that long and coffee was like the Force, strong with that one!

Keep us posted on your results. I have one of these recipes that I will attempt by this spring. Good to know what the outcome is from the process.
 

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Could you do a cold brew coffee? Would that leave the oils behind? I’ve read good things about people using that method for stouts. It’s supposed to give you a good coffee flavor without the bitterness.
 

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So I was planning on my next brew being a sour of some sort but over the weekend I had this beer for the first time and loved it:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/45814/332966/

I have never brewed a stout or really any English styles All-Grain so poking around the interwebs I realized there really are only a couple articles/recipes out there for something like this, so I figured I'd hodge podge together a recipe and see what the people think or if anyone who has done something like this has any advice:

For 5.5gallons in FV

White Stout:
11lb Marris Otter
.5lb Crystal 20L
.5lb Flaked Oats
.5lb Flaked Barley

Mash @ 154 for 60 minutes.

Boil for 60 minutes adding:
1oz Fuggles @ 60 minutes
1oz Fuggles @ 30 minutes
8oz Lactose @ 15 minutes

Ferment with s-04 (or any English Ale yeast) as normal.

On brew day: Create a vodka tincture with 2 vanilla beans (opened, scraped) and 4oz Cacao nibs, allow to soak for two weeks.

Once primary fermentation has completed, add 8oz coffee beans (whole) and tincture to carboy. Allow to sit another week(?). Package.

A couple questions I have are: I have heard most people recommending to put the coffee beans directly in the beer for secondary, yet I have also heard about oils causing lack of head retention. Since one of the traits of stout we want is the nice even head, does the oil from the beans affect that? Also if anyone has any insights as to contact time with the beans/tincture I have no idea what is appropriate for flavor infusion. Along with any other tips/thoughts/criticisms you may have. All are welcome.
Have you considered adding a few ounces of lactose, maybe 6 or so?
 

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https://blog.kegoutlet.com/brewing-a-white-stout-the-recipe/

https://blog.kegoutlet.com/brewing-a-white-stout-the-results-and-takeaways/

I used this recipe as the base for my white stout. I did not use any smoked malt though. I recommend dry beaning the coffee. I judged coffee beers last year and Dry beaned beers had better aroma and flavor compared to beers with cold steeped coffee added in my opinion

I only dry beaned for 24 hours and then started my cold crash.

My beer does not have great head retention so it is possible the oils from the coffee have an affect. You are also adding cocoa nibs which I’m guessing have some oils. If you want a good head serve this on nitro!
 

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I've done many coffee beers as I am also a coffee roaster and nerd. My preferred method is to use around 4-5oz of FRESH coffee beans in a cold toddy (for a 5 gal batch of beer). You grind the beans as coarsely as possible and add around 3 cups of water. Keep in the fridge for roughly 12-18 hours and add directly to secondary/keg/bottling bucket. That's really the process. Simple and effective. The advantage of the cold toddy is you have a great control on the extraction time and rate while creating a coffee that lacks bitterness while coaxing the greatest amount of flavor and aroma from the beans.
 
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Andrew Hodgson

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I've done many coffee beers as I am also a coffee roaster and nerd. My preferred method is to use around 4-5oz of FRESH coffee beans in a cold toddy (for a 5 gal batch of beer). You grind the beans as coarsely as possible and add around 3 cups of water. Keep in the fridge for roughly 12-18 hours and add directly to secondary/keg/bottling bucket. That's really the process. Simple and effective. The advantage of the cold toddy is you have a great control on the extraction time and rate while creating a coffee that lacks bitterness while coaxing the greatest amount of flavor and aroma from the beans.
This seems simple and effective, I think I will use this method to apply the coffee, will probably dump it into the fermenter the day before packaging.
 
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Andrew Hodgson

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I am going to brew this on Monday in honor of President's Day. Taking all the above advice regarding the coffee I think I will get some fresh decaf whole beans from a local shop and add 6oz directly to the fermenter the day before packaging. It seems the easiest route to go to hopefully ensure head retention and have the most easy process for a first start, might mess with the cold steeping if I find the coffee does not come through the way I'd like.

I will add the vodka tincture with the cacao nibs and vanilla after 7 days of fermentation and let it sit another week before bottling. Only edit to my original post recipe is adding lactose at flameout not 15 minutes. I think it is a solid place to start considering I have not brewed this style before.
 
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Brewed this up and got 6.25 gallons fermenting away with the s-04. Could have had a stronger brew but after mashing I added about a gallon, ended up with a post-boil OG of 1.059. Don't know what I would have had for a gravity if I didn't add the extra water but I'll take volume over ABV for this first round with the recipe.

Then I made up a tincture using 4.5oz organic Cacao nibs, the scrapings of 3 vanilla beans, and 1L of vodka. Will let that sit for two weeks and then the day before packaging will add 4-6oz of decaf coffee beans (whole) and then add the tincture and priming solution right in the bottling bucket.
 

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Anyone tried adding distilled coffee to a beer? I distilled some coffee beans yesterday and got great taste/aroma. I don’t have a stout to add it to, but bet it would be great for a breakfast stout where you don’t want to add colour.
 
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Anyone tried adding distilled coffee to a beer? I distilled some coffee beans yesterday and got great taste/aroma. I don’t have a stout to add it to, but bet it would be great for a breakfast stout where you don’t want to add colour.
This interests me as well as part of this brew experiment for me is trying to keep the color as light as possible (within reason) while achieving the coffee/chocolate flavors of a stout.
 

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I got inspired by this thread and tried a similar recipe on Monday.

I then happened to go to a local favorite brewery and pizza place Tailgate that happened to have a white stout on tap. There’s was good but more coffee and no chocolate or vanilla. I really can’t wait to see how this comes out!
 
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I got inspired by this thread and tried a similar recipe on Monday.

I then happened to go to a local favorite brewery and pizza place Tailgate that happened to have a white stout on tap. There’s was good but more coffee and no chocolate or vanilla. I really can’t wait to see how this comes out!
The balance will be interesting, I am definitely trying to balance the coffee with the chocolate/vanilla notes. The tincture of vodka with the cacao and vanilla smells ridiculously good, mostly with vanilla coming through so far. I am going to use some whole decaf coffee beans in the last 24 hours before packaging to hopefully only draw a hint of coffee to mix well with the chocolate notes. We will see and I think this will be a recipe I make a couple times over the next months and tweak as I go. Let us know how you approach flavoring the beer and how it comes out as well. Cheers!
 

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I've done many coffee beers as I am also a coffee roaster and nerd. My preferred method is to use around 4-5oz of FRESH coffee beans in a cold toddy (for a 5 gal batch of beer). You grind the beans as coarsely as possible and add around 3 cups of water. Keep in the fridge for roughly 12-18 hours and add directly to secondary/keg/bottling bucket. That's really the process. Simple and effective. The advantage of the cold toddy is you have a great control on the extraction time and rate while creating a coffee that lacks bitterness while coaxing the greatest amount of flavor and aroma from the beans.
Hello there,

I had 3-4oz of fresh coffee beans from sprouts that I put through a toddy with ~/cups of water. But only got about 8-9pz of cold brewed coffee. Can you confirm of you think this will work in my hazelnut coffee? Or if you fee I shod go get more and try again with more water?

Thanks,
Lorne
 

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Hello there,

I had 3-4oz of fresh coffee beans from sprouts that I put through a toddy with ~/cups of water. But only got about 8-9pz of cold brewed coffee. Can you confirm of you think this will work in my hazelnut coffee? Or if you fee I shod go get more and try again with more water?

Thanks,
Lorne
That should okay. The amount of beans and time of extraction are the important factors. The yield doesn't matter much as it will only determine concentration.
 

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That should okay. The amount of beans and time of extraction are the important factors. The yield doesn't matter much as it will only determine concentration.
Ok great. Should I bring coffee to 160F for a few minutes before putting into my beer? I’m worried about contamination. I sanitized the toddy and covered with plastic wrap overnight. The. Sanitized the mason jar it’s been in the fridge now for 3 days.

Thanks,
Lorne
 

danielthemaniel

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Ok great. Should I bring coffee to 160F for a few minutes before putting into my beer? I’m worried about contamination. I sanitized the toddy and covered with plastic wrap overnight. The. Sanitized the mason jar it’s been in the fridge now for 3 days.

Thanks,
Lorne
Dont heat it as that will bring out bitterness. As long as you sanitized your container you should be just fine
 
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Andrew Hodgson

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Did the "dry bean" addition last night. 1 cup of water, boil and cool and add 2oz sugar and 4oz coffee beans (house blend from a local spot). Wow I know the smell will fade but the coffee smell coming off the fermenter is awesome. Will add the cacao/vanilla tincture to the bottling bucket Saturday morning and we will see what we have.
 

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Did the "dry bean" addition last night. 1 cup of water, boil and cool and add 2oz sugar and 4oz coffee beans (house blend from a local spot). Wow I know the smell will fade but the coffee smell coming off the fermenter is awesome. Will add the cacao/vanilla tincture to the bottling bucket Saturday morning and we will see what we have.
Was the sugar for bottling?
 

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No I usually put 2oz of sugar in any dry hop or fermenter addition when I have to open the fermenter lid. In my mind it helps restart fermentation briefly to purge the headspace. Unknown if this works or not but it's SOP for me.
Huh interesting. Certainly couldn’t hurt
 
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I bottled this beer on Saturday. FG was 1.020 which was exactly what Brewer's Friend said it would be, (OG was 1.059 so 5.12% ABV, again Brewer's friend). I don't normally like beers to be this sweet but everything I read for White Stout said to aim for a sweet/milk stout so as far as that goes I hit it pretty spot on. Did not taste the hydro sample, I want a surprise for this one.

Color was definitely light like I wanted, I will be curious to see what it looks like after conditioning as the vodka tincture with the cacao and vanilla became very red after two weeks. I am wondering how much of that color will be imparted once the beer has had a chance to carb and sit for a few weeks. Next update will be when I open one prematurely, probably next weekend.
 

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So I was planning on my next brew being a sour of some sort but over the weekend I had this beer for the first time and loved it:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/45814/332966/

I have never brewed a stout or really any English styles All-Grain so poking around the interwebs I realized there really are only a couple articles/recipes out there for something like this, so I figured I'd hodge podge together a recipe and see what the people think or if anyone who has done something like this has any advice:

For 5.5gallons in FV

White Stout:
11lb Marris Otter
.5lb Crystal 20L
.5lb Flaked Oats
.5lb Flaked Barley

Mash @ 154 for 60 minutes.

Boil for 60 minutes adding:
1oz Fuggles @ 60 minutes
1oz Fuggles @ 30 minutes
8oz Lactose @ 15 minutes

Ferment with s-04 (or any English Ale yeast) as normal.

On brew day: Create a vodka tincture with 2 vanilla beans (opened, scraped) and 4oz Cacao nibs, allow to soak for two weeks.

Once primary fermentation has completed, add 8oz coffee beans (whole) and tincture to carboy. Allow to sit another week(?). Package.

A couple questions I have are: I have heard most people recommending to put the coffee beans directly in the beer for secondary, yet I have also heard about oils causing lack of head retention. Since one of the traits of stout we want is the nice even head, does the oil from the beans affect that? Also if anyone has any insights as to contact time with the beans/tincture I have no idea what is appropriate for flavor infusion. Along with any other tips/thoughts/criticisms you may have. All are welcome.
Just tried my first White Stout yesterday , found some brewed by Whole Hog . Not bad at all, reported notes of white chocolate, vanilla and coffee. Poured with literally no head . Looks similar to a cream ale to me. Had a little oily mouthfeel .
 
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Just tried my first White Stout yesterday , found some brewed by Whole Hog . Not bad at all, reported notes of white chocolate, vanilla and coffee. Poured with literally no head . Looks similar to a cream ale to me. Had a little oily mouthfeel .
I have the same concerns you note. I think it isn't hard to get good depth of flavor in this style of beer but I am concerned about the oils from the tincture/dry bean and both head retention and mouthfeel. Someone did recommend decaffeinated beans above as the decaf process removes some oils, if I find that my beer has the same issues you mention I will have to try and adjust.

For a first try I would be happy hitting the flavor notes but oily mouthfeel would be an issue and no head at all would be something to work on as well. I did know going into this style that those would be the possible two pitfalls though so we will see.
 
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I had the first (premature) taste, one bottle last night. It has only been carbing/conditioning since Saturday.

I will say I enjoy this beer, it came out fairly ale-like in color, I will say the carbonation and head is lacking, but a couple weeks might make all the difference. The flavor as of right now is dominated by the coffee which is a bit disappointing, but again I am going to be optimistic and assume that over the next week or two the coffee/chocolate/vanilla will start to meld, and hopefully some semblance of head will be established.
 
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I can’t really advise as it isn’t even a week from packaging. I like to think in a week or two the chocolate vanilla will balance out but who knows. I have seen people universally say that 8oz is going to give you very heavy coffee flavor for a long time.
 

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Don’t leave the beans in there for a week! 48 hours max. You run the risk of your beer tasting/smelling like green peppers with contact time that long.
Thank you for pointing this out. I hate the green pepper flavor in coffee beers and cabernet wine. Too long of coffee contact or under-ripe cabernet. Two things that are easily corrected.
 
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Honestly after seeing how much coffee comes through with 4oz at 48 hours I can’t imagine what a whole week would have done. Beer saving advice for sure.
 
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Chilled and tried another one of these. Head retention and carb are on point. Flavors still melding. I really enjoy it the coffee is mellowing. I bet a couple weeks in cold storage will make these so tasty.
 
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I have been thinking about this beer and while I enjoy it and think it will get even better while aging in the coming weeks I think when I tackle this recipe again I will add some light munich malt to the grain-bill. Maybe I will start with .5 lb or go right to a full pound and see if it contributes grainy/roasty flavors. I think it will be another step closer to actually mimicking a stout without having the deep dark color. My critique of the beer right now is that there isn't that lingering malty/roasty flavor on your tongue after you drink it. The chocolate/coffee/vanilla notes are there but it does need a bit of malty backbone still.
 

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I just kegged mine last night. I added the coffee 18 hours before kegging. I cold crashed right before adding the coffee. Tried a flat sample and really liked it other than similar thought of the coffee being overpowering.

Can’t wait to see how this progresses. I modified the original post recipe some and way overshot OG. Came in at 1.09 and finished at 1.02.
 
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First weekend of having a couple in the fridge. I really enjoy this beer. I may make slight tweaks but at the right temperature it is exactly how I like a stout. First one I tried has almost a carbonic taste but I realized like a moron I was tasting it right out of the fridge. This needs to sit and warm up for 10-15 and is perfect. Definitely will use this to experiment with stout variants.
 
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Did the "dry bean" addition last night. 1 cup of water, boil and cool and add 2oz sugar and 4oz coffee beans (house blend from a local spot). Wow I know the smell will fade but the coffee smell coming off the fermenter is awesome. Will add the cacao/vanilla tincture to the bottling bucket Saturday morning and we will see what we have.
I brewed something similar yesterday and was reading through to decide how to approach the coffee addition. Planning on dry beaning. Did you do anything to the beans before adding to avoid contamination?

Also, how is this beer with the lactose? I didn't add any during my brew and am wondering if it's worth adding during fermentation or at bottling.
 
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