First time using Brett (Brett C in secondary)

[hanuswalrus]

So I just picked up a fresh package of WY5151 Brett C. I've never brewed any type of lambic or sour beer before but I'm really excited about getting my first one going.

Been reading up on it and I'm thinking I'd like to brew a pale ale and ferment it out w/ US-05 or some other clean ale yeast, and then add the Brett to secondary. From what I've read, the Brett shines much more when added to secondary.

I'm planning to brew a 3 gallon batch but here's where my initial concern comes in. I'm planning on using a 3 gallon glass carboy to do my secondary. When I pitch the Brett into the secondary, is it going to eventually form a krausen or is that not something Brett strains do? I'm worried about head space and if I should leave a little room when racking to secondary..

Also, is a starter recommended for Brett when it's being pitched to secondary?

Thanks in advance to any advice on the subject!

 

[Brewrifle]

You'll need more than Brett C to sour a beer so plan on adding Lacto or Pedio to get it soured. What is your planned original gravity?

 

[hanuswalrus]

I haven't even brewed this beer yet.. probably still 1-2 weeks away from brewing it. I'm thinking about aiming for somewhere around 1.052-1.054 on the OG.

I'm really an amateur on sours/brett beers. I don't know if I need it soured. I'm just looking to give it a noticeable funk.

 

[hanuswalrus]

Now I'm thinking I might want to add a little Lacto. Thinking about pulling some dregs from a commercial brew for that. Any suggestions on not-too-difficult-to-obtain beers with Lacto to pull dregs from?

 

[Brewrifle]

Here's a good list of available beers for bottle dregging - http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

That website has a wealth of great information and he's one hell of a brewer.

 

[sweetcell]

brett C is quite mild. it is more fruity than funky. if you want funk, try brett B or L.

 

[hanuswalrus]

I already bought the Brett C strain.. I'm thinking I'll pull some Lacto dregs from a gose beer from a local brewery here in Chicagoland and mix that in. I've been reading up on the Mad Fermentationist's website and he says he gets the best results from pitching the brett/sour mix at the same time as he pitches the Sacc. strain. I think I might try that.. any tips on this method? Just mix all the yeast in one starter and pitch like I would for a normal ale?

 

[sweetcell]

Just mix all the yeast in one starter and pitch like I would for a normal ale?

yup, that will work.

 

[Calder]

What do you really want?

If you want a sour beer, pitch some dregs from commercial and/or pitch a bug mix. With all due respect to Oldsock (aka Mad Fermentationist), I would recommend pitching the bugs a few days before pitching any sacc. You could add the Brett-C, but I think it would just be a waste with everything else. You will not get a sour with just the Brett. Using just lacto with Brett to sour brings it's own issues, and I don't think you will get a good result unless you know what you are doing.

Do you want a brett-funk beer? Pitch a Belgian/Farmhouse yeast first (or with the Brett) and let go for 6+ months. Brett-C is probably the mildest Brett. I can't actually tell you what to expect as I have not used it as a secondary yeast; I have it going as a primary yeast right now, and will use it as a secondary yeast in a Porter later this year. Porter is a Olde English Ale, and Brett-C was originally isolated from British beers.

You can use it as a primary strain (the only yeast). I am using the White Labs version as a primary yeast, which may be different from the Wyeast strain. I used it in a Brown Ale, and fermented it at 70 F, and it fermented clean. It was a batch split between 4 yeasts. I could not tell the difference between the Brett-C batch and the batch fermented with PacMan at 62 F. I have a farmhouse ale fermented with it at 85 F, and it is fruity - it needs high temps to bring out flavors in single yeast beers.

 

[hanuswalrus]

I'm thinking I want to get some sour out of this beer. I was able to find a bottle of Spontansweetcherry from Mikkeller so I'm thinking about pitching the dregs from that in with the Brett. I'm thinking of making a starter with the Brett and bugs so I can harvest some from the starter to hold onto or donate to my LHBS's yeast bank.. Won't be brewing this for a couple weeks so until then, I'm reading up and watching as many videos on making sours as much as I can.

 

[hanuswalrus]

Also, my girlfriend just came back from Indianapolis and managed to pick up 3 Upland sours for me.. was thinking about bringing one of the bottles to a brew club meeting this week (Thursday) and saving the dregs.. I just have a couple questions..

1.) how long will the dregs last in the bottle once the majority of the beer has been poured out??
2.) I plan on making a starter with these dregs and probably the dregs from the Mikkeller bottle I have as well. If I make the starter w/ these dregs and the Brett strain, is it recommended to pitch this starter sooner rather than later? I may not be able to brew this beer for another 2 weeks..

Thanks for all the input so far guys.

 

[sweetcell]

@hanuswalrus:

after you pour out the beer (ideally in one single pour), pour out the dregs into a small jar (like a cup) of 1.020 starter. add all your dregs to that jar, and use that as your starter. use a little malto dextrine in the starter.

waiting 2 weeks is a good thing. it will take the brett that long to wake up and get going.

 

[hanuswalrus]

Thanks for all the input @sweetcell.

One last question.. Is there a different mash pH I need to shoot for when brewing my base beer for a sour? Or is it just the typical 5.2-5.4?

 

[sweetcell]

yep, standard mash pH is what you want.

 

[hanuswalrus]

Still haven't brewed this on up yet.. wanna make sure I do my homework so this beer turns out halfway decent.

What I'm now thinking is I wanna brew a saison for my base beer. Use WY3724 for the primary strain, which the Wyeast website says finishes pretty high (sometimes around 1.035 SG) unless you use a secondary strain and/or ramp up ferm temps into the 90's.

So I'm thinking of fermenting w/ 3724 for primary, then racking to secondary to add the Brett C and bugs. If the primary finishes around 1.035, that can only add more potential for the Brett and bugs to impart more of their flavors, correct?

 

[Calder]

Still haven't brewed this on up yet.. wanna make sure I do my homework so this beer turns out halfway decent.

What I'm now thinking is I wanna brew a saison for my base beer. Use WY3724 for the primary strain, which the Wyeast website says finishes pretty high (sometimes around 1.035 SG) unless you use a secondary strain and/or ramp up ferm temps into the 90's.

So I'm thinking of fermenting w/ 3724 for primary, then racking to secondary to add the Brett C and bugs. If the primary finishes around 1.035, that can only add more potential for the Brett and bugs to impart more of their flavors, correct?

I'm not sure it works that way. I believe many of the traditional Brett flavors come from the Brett working on the esters created by the sacc yeast. You might do better using a high attenuating yeast.

If you leave too much sugar for the Brett, it may act like a regular yeast and not give you any of the flavors you desire.

 

[hanuswalrus]

I'm not sure it works that way. I believe many of the traditional Brett flavors come from the Brett working on the esters created by the sacc yeast. You might do better using a high attenuating yeast.

If you leave too much sugar for the Brett, it may act like a regular yeast and not give you any of the flavors you desire.

OK, glad I asked. My understanding, from what I've read on Oldsock's blog, is that you want to leave enough sugars for the Brett and bugs to chew up, but I guess not too much? OK, maybe I'll go w/ a different sacc. strain

 

[sweetcell]

My understanding, from what I've read on Oldsock's blog, is that you want to leave enough sugars for the Brett and bugs to chew up, but I guess not too much?

bugs need sugars, brett can get by fine without them.

3724 is a great yeast to combine with brett as it produces a bunch of esters that the brett will transform. however you might want to have a second yeast on hand (ideally another saison like 3711) to clean up the incomplete fermentation that the 3724 will leave behind.

 

[hanuswalrus]

Planning on brewing up the base beer this weekend. Here's what I got for the grain bill:

5 lb Golden Promise (70%)
1 lb Munich Light (14%)
.5 lb White Wheat (7%)
.5 lb Flaked Wheat (7%)
.15 lb Acidulated (2.1% to bring the pH down a bit)

Going to use Styrian Goldings hops to get me up to ~10 IBUs.

Planning on mashing around 158-160.

It's been recommended to me to get some Carapils in there to add dextrins to the wort, but if I'm going to be mashing this high, won't that get plenty of dextrins in there for the brett to eat and funk things up?

 

[hanuswalrus]

Anyone have any input on this grain bill? Closing in on brew day and looking for any advice!

 

[hanuswalrus]

I hate to keep bumping my own thread.. but I'm going in to buy my grains today and would love any kind of feedback before this recipe is set in stone

 

[youreanimpulse]

Looks good to me. Nice and simple.

 

[sweetcell]

Planning on brewing up the base beer this weekend. Here's what I got for the grain bill:

5 lb Golden Promise (70%)
1 lb Munich Light (14%)
.5 lb White Wheat (7%)
.5 lb Flaked Wheat (7%)
.15 lb Acidulated (2.1% to bring the pH down a bit)

Going to use Styrian Goldings hops to get me up to ~10 IBUs.

Planning on mashing around 158-160.

It's been recommended to me to get some Carapils in there to add dextrins to the wort, but if I'm going to be mashing this high, won't that get plenty of dextrins in there for the brett to eat and funk things up?

solid recipe. go forth and brew.

regarding the carapils/dextrine question: mashing high often, usually results in dextrines. carapils always gets you dextrines. with golden promise you'll probably get dextrine because it's not a ridiculously over-modified malt, like north american two-row.