First time Lambic - kriek - advice needed!

[MikeFallopian]

I've been an all-grain brewer for about four or five years now, but haven't yet attempted a sour beer. I've got a load of cherries from a tree in my garden sitting in the freezer, so I though 'let's go for it', and picked up a smack-pack of Wyeast 3278 Lambic Blend.

I've been searching around on various sites, and people seem to have different approaches and methods (unsurprisingly), so I was wondering if anyone had some advice, particularly on the following questions:

- Do I really need a turbid mash or will an infusion mash be ok? The grain bill will be a 50-50 split between pils and torrefied (raw) wheat.

- Should I ferment the wort using 3278 in the primary for about 14 days, then rack to a secondary with the cherries and leave to condition? How long should I leave the beer to sit on the cherries?

- Will I need to add more yeast/bacteria when racking onto the cherries? I also have a few unopened bottles of Boon Oude Gueze lying around, if it's worth throwing in the dregs?

- Will it be ok to condition the beer with the cherries in a pressure barrel (thick plastic cask without an airlock, although can be manually vented, so can only withstand a certain amount of pressure) or will I need to use an FV with an airlock?

- Will I need to add any yeast other than the 3278?

- Will the 3278 'ruin' my equipment? I'd assume than sanitizer will kill anything, although people on various sites report the contrary.

Thanks!

 

[ArcLight]

- Will the 3278 'ruin' my equipment? I'd assume than sanitizer will kill anything, although people on various sites report the contrary.
Thanks!

It might. Bacteria are hard to get rid of, especially if they form biofilms.
A sanitizer doesn't sterilize. It kills 99.9% (or what ever the number is) of bacteria. There will be surviving bacteria, they will regrow, and will ruin you other beers.

I would use dedicated equipment anytime you are dealing with bacteria.

 

[Calder]

1 - Do I really need a turbid mash or will an infusion mash be ok? The grain bill will be a 50-50 split between pils and torrefied (raw) wheat.

2 - Should I ferment the wort using 3278 in the primary for about 14 days, then rack to a secondary with the cherries and leave to condition? How long should I leave the beer to sit on the cherries?

3 - Will I need to add more yeast/bacteria when racking onto the cherries? I also have a few unopened bottles of Boon Oude Gueze lying around, if it's worth throwing in the dregs?

4 - Will it be ok to condition the beer with the cherries in a pressure barrel (thick plastic cask without an airlock, although can be manually vented, so can only withstand a certain amount of pressure) or will I need to use an FV with an airlock?

5 - Will I need to add any yeast other than the 3278?

6 - Will the 3278 'ruin' my equipment? I'd assume than sanitizer will kill anything, although people on various sites report the contrary.

You might want to check out the Lambic forum. Lots of good, and contradictory advice. Oldsock sometimes chimes in on topics -he recently published the book American Sours.

I've made quite a few sours. It is hard to go wrong; you just need patience. Here are my comments- many may disagree, but this is still a fairly new brewing field for HB.

1 - No, you do not need a turbid mash. You can make excellent sours from extract.

2 - Ferment with 3278 for 8 to 12 months before adding the cherries. Lambics are fermented on the yeast the whole time. I usually rack as the ferment just starts to slow down. That way a lot of the trub/solids have dropped, but you still have a lot of yeast as food for the Brett still in suspension.

3 - You do not need to add any more yeast or bugs. ........ But Lambic blend is known to be 'mild' especially in first use, that you should toss in your Boon dregs as you drink the bottles. I've used LB once. I will be bottling it this weekend after about 18 months. I should find out how sour it gets.

4 - I always use an airlock. After adding the cherries, fermentation will start up again slowly, so you will need an airlock for a while.

5 - No. See (3) above.

6 - Yes and no. I keep all hoses separate, I really don't know how you adequately clean them. I usually keep my plastic fermenters separate, just in case, but occasionally dual use them and have never had a problem. When I finish with a sour, I clean the fermenter, and then store it filled with a mild bleach solution (1 tbs per gallon).

Other notes:

- Do not make a starter. You want a slow start. 4 days lag is good; the bugs are increasing before the sacc starts making alcohol.

- You should be prepared to add yeast at bottling.