First Time Cider Making Questions

[Ztup]

Hello,
I'm planning on making a Cider this weekend, and have a few questions to make sure I don't screw anything up:

Headspace - In the primary fermentation for Cider, it seems like many people are just using 5 gallon carboys. Do Ciders not need the headspace of beers, and is there not the risk of blowoff?

Sugar - I'm planning on doing a 5-5.5 gallon batch. I'm planning on adding about 6 pounds total of various kinds of sugar. Most recipes I see don't seem to add more than 2-3 pounds. I'm going for a high alcohol content, but still want a good taste. Using Lalvin 71B wine yeast. Is 6 pounds of sugar going to have a negative affect on the taste?

Camden/Potassium Metabisulfite - I'm using fresh cider from a local orchard that has had nothing done/added to it. I was planning on dosing with Potassium Metabisulfite and waiting 24 hours before pitching yeast, but some stuff I have read says this will negatively affect the flavor. What do you think? If I do use it and wait 24 hours, should I refridgerate the Cider during this time?

I'm sure I've forgotten some of my questions, so there probably more to come!

Thanks!

 

[Randzor]

Blow off depends on yeast. If I use a cider yeast I need more space vs champenge yeast, which requires none.

 

[TopherM]

2) Krausen and blowoff is mostly a function of protein content, and cider has a fraction of the protein content of any given wort.

2) I don't add any sugar whatsoever, as there is plenty of sugar in the apple juice. I can't think of any good reason to add 6 lbs of sugar, it'll only add unbalanced alcohol character. I wouldn't go over 1 lb, honestly, or you are throwing the whole thing out of balance.

3) I also don't use Camden/Potassium Metabisulfite in any of my ciders, so I can say that you definitely don't need it. Mine turn out great without it.

Do you intend on bottling or kegging this cider, and do you intend on making a sweet or dry cider? I think the thing that most newbies overlook is that it is very difficult to both naturually carb in a bottle and create a sweet cider.

Good luck!

 

[podz]

Blow off depends on yeast. If I use a cider yeast I need more space vs champenge yeast, which requires none.

Not all champagne yeasts have the same properties.

I always use Kitzinger Champagner yeast, and it definitely requires headspace. I am able to fill a 20 litre demijohn to 18 litres, wait two days for krausen to rise and fall, then top up the juice after that. It raises a large krausen cone in my teardrop shaped demijohn.

 

[bernardsmith]

Others may disagree but it is good - if not better - to ferment cider (or any fruit wine or mead) in a bucket so that you have easy access to stir the must several times a day for the first few days (to remove CO2 and introduce O2 - and if there is any fruit , to ensure the fruit is exposed to the yeast and liquid). You then don't need to care about blow off tubes or airlocks during the first week - 10 days of fermentation. When the fermentation takes the gravity down to about 1.005 you simply rack into your carboy and add the bung and airlock then. (You cover the bucket with a towel or cloth to keep out pets and bugs and dirt and kids)
The pressed apple juice should contain enough sugar to produce a cider with an ABV of about 5- 5.5 % alcohol so adding 1 lb of sugar per gallon of juice will increase the ABV by about .040 and give you a an apple wine of about 9 -10 % alcohol. I am sorry but I have to disagree with TopherM. If you want an apple wine (and it will take much longer to age than a cider) then add the sugar, but if what you want is a cider then the addition of sugar is not necessary. It really depends on what you are looking for. But wine is a reasonable option and after about a year apple wine tastes incredible - the malic acids which are quite harsh give way to lactic acids which are very smooth.

 

[Ztup]

I am kegging, not bottling, though I will probably bottle from the keg at some point to share with Family and Friends.

Another question - how much yeast nutrient should I use? Is it a flat amount, or do I need more if I add more sugar, etc?

 

[pmonti80]

Do you intend on bottling or kegging this cider, and do you intend on making a sweet or dry cider? I think the thing that most newbies overlook is that it is very difficult to both naturually carb in a bottle and create a sweet cider.

Good luck!

Is it very difficult to make a more a less semi-sweet cider to carb in a bottle? Alternatively is non-carbed (flat?) semi-sweet cider good or even drinkable?

 

[podz]

I am kegging, not bottling, though I will probably bottle from the keg at some point to share with Family and Friends.

Another question - how much yeast nutrient should I use? Is it a flat amount, or do I need more if I add more sugar, etc?

Nutrient amount is unrelated to sugar amount AFAIK. I recommend starting with 50 grams for a 20 litre batch and seeing how that works out for you. If you add too much, you can definitely taste it.

 

[TopherM]

Is it very difficult to make a more a less semi-sweet cider to carb in a bottle? Alternatively is non-carbed (flat?) semi-sweet cider good or even drinkable?

The sugars in apple juice are practically all simple sugars, so the yeast are going to attenuate them down to a dry cider if you just ferment it out.

To make a sweet or semi-sweet carbed cider, you pretty much have to make an educated guess on when the bottled cider if both fully carbed and still contains enough sugar to sweeten the final cider to taste, then either cold crash or pastuerize. Anyone that tells you they know exactly when to do it is lying. It's literally an educated guess. The alternative would be to sweeten with an unfermentable, but I would challenge you to find one that tastes good.

The British make plenty of still ciders with no carbonation, so while I don't personally care for them, I can't say that they aren't good. It would be alot simpler to do than the guesswork of carbing, as you can just ferment out, add sweet juice to backsweeten, then bottle and cold crash/pastuerize immediately to lock in that sweetness.

I keg all of my ciders, so I ferment them out dry, keg 4.5 gallons, add 0.5 gallons of sweet juice, then cold crash them and age them a bit in the keg, so the yeast go dormant, the sweetness remains, and bulk aging begins.

Hope that helps!

 

[bernardsmith]

TopherM, There is one alternative to cold crashing and /or pasteurizing and that is allowing the cider to ferment dry and then adding K-meta and k-sorbate to stabilize the cider you can then add sugar but the remaining yeast will not be able to make a dent in that sugar as the sorbate with the meta prevents the yeast from reproducing and yeast does have a limited lifespan. Wine makers routinely use stabilization without "cold crashing" but in truth, they tend to allow the liquor to age and while it ages they rack every couple or three months thus removing large portions of the yeast colony.
*** In fact when wine makers refer to "cold crashing" they tend to mean removing tartaric acid from the wine (not yeast) by chilling the wine so that the acid forms crystals which they then remove by racking their wine off those crystals. Cold crashing then also raises the pH of the wine and reduces the TA.