First Time Cider Maker - How long can I age my cider

[lhommedieu]

I'm an all-grain brewer but a first time cider maker. After tasting some cider that had fermented in my fridge, I'd like to try my hand at making some cider. There is a local cider mill that will fill my sanitized 5 gallon carboy with unpasteurized cider, to which I'll add Safale S-04 yeast and ferment at 60F. After that I'd like to rack to a secondary and cold-crash, and then transfer to a keg.

My question has to do with how long I can age my cider in the keg, as I'd like to drink the cider next fall. That's an 8 month aging process. I typically do the same for lagers and they turn out fine; can I follow the same process for ciders?

 

[DBH]

My ciders just get better with age. The difference between young cider and one aged 8 to 12 months has been dramatic from my experience. I have only done 6 batches of cider in 3 years. Until this fall I had only fermented with White Labs English Cider Yeast. This year I did 15 gals of mixed heirloom apple juice from my friends orchard. Fermented half with the Cider Yeast and half with White Labs 002. Of the 2, so far I prefer the 002 batch. The S-04 may produce similar results, hopefully someone with more experience could verify that. Good luck

 

[MarkKF]

The only white labs I used was cider yeast. It was just O. K. I then tried wine yeasts and didn't like them. I then tried Notty and S-04 and they were both good. I have not had the best luck with getting liquid yeasts when I want them.

 

[SomersetRedstreak]

S-04 makes a good cider, not too dry (for those who like a bit of residual sweetness).
Time in the keg can only help. Good cider takes time.

 

[madscientist451]

if you have a 6.5 gallon carboy for beer use that for your cider primary. Put in 5.5 gallons and drink the remaining 1/2 gallon. After fermentation stops, rack to a 5 gallon carboy. I like WL 002 ale yeast, and ferment at 57-60 degrees. You can leave the cider in the secondary carboy for 8 months and not tie up the keg if you want to.

 

[Sailingeric]

My ciders just get better with age. The difference between young cider and one aged 8 to 12 months has been dramatic from my experience. I have only done 6 batches of cider in 3 years. Until this fall I had only fermented with White Labs English Cider Yeast. This year I did 15 gals of mixed heirloom apple juice from my friends orchard. Fermented half with the Cider Yeast and half with White Labs 002. Of the 2, so far I prefer the 002 batch. The S-04 may produce similar results, hopefully someone with more experience could verify that. Good luck

I agree that Wlp002 makes very yummy cider, I did not even have to back sweeten.

 

[SerifSansSerif]

A lot of people seem to post that aging seems to be a necessary and crucial part of brewing... And that, in fact, somehow, through the mysteries of aging, you will stumble upon the shangri-la of alcoholic beverages.

This is not necessarily so.

Sure, you should plan for some time after your primary fermentation for your yeast to settle out and your flavors to meld, but it's not always the months and years that some people seem to state.

A lot of it has to do with personal preference and... Believe it or not, ABV.

If you're just taking straight cider and brewing it straight, no additives, it has a much shorter shelf life than, say, a wine or a mead, or a fortified cider. Tops, you''ll only need to age a few weeks to a month for this low alcohol cider.

For something fortified, and with an ABV of say... 12-18%, you can start deciding to age longer, possibly for as much as a year or two. (Typically wine tends to mature some time within that period, and then afterward, it gets tricky and depends on many many many factors, and bottle to bottle it may even age differently. Eventually though, you WILL hit a point of diminishing returns...)

If you were jacking your liquor, or distilling (which is illegal), THEN you start considering aging for multiple years.. (5-10 much like many whiskeys)... But that's for really really high ABV liquors (excess of 75%)

Even today, most of the info you'll find on wine and aging/storing will tell you that most of the stuff produces is meant to be consumed ASAP, and my guess would be that, honestly, it applies just as much for home brewed liquors as well.

Anyhow... Here's some sources to read through

A great quick overview on how long some wines can age and what the attributes that help them age are

The wiki article on the effects of aging wine

And one article talking of aging/storing wines (note the first line...) Considering it's "wine cellar insider" and THEY are telling you not to bother...

and a Wine Spectator article about it.

And I know.. Some wise ass is going to say, "But that's WINE!!!! My cider is so amazingly awesome wonderful that it will be able to age 60 years and be perfect!!!"

To that I say, get over yourself. Ciders and meads share all the techniques used in wine making, and for the longest time have not been elected for aging. The concept of aging these beverages is relatively new, and probably stem from the fact that in the market, there's many wines that are 100+ years old valued at obscene amounts of money (it's taste is not a factor, but the age and vintage are the factors, as well as overall rarity. These wines are probably even terrible tasting as vinegar by now), and the fact that, distilled spirits, are, in fact, aged 5-10 years and benefit greatly from it. (but again, the ABV and general chemical makeup of these spirits is VASTLY greater and different respectively).

So back to aging... Age how long you'd like, and if your brew has some flaws, aging might help, but really, once bottled a few weeks to a month (to sort itself out from bottle shock) is about all you ever really need.

 

[lhommedieu]

Thanks for your responses. Below is the cider that I started fermenting this evening. It had an OG of 1.050 so I added some sugar to bump it up to 1.060. Fermenting with Safale S0-4.

 

[madscientist451]

A lot of people seem to post that aging seems to be a necessary and crucial part of brewing... And that, in fact, somehow, through the mysteries of aging, you will stumble upon the shangri-la of alcoholic beverages.

This is not necessarily so.

Sure, you should plan for some time after your primary fermentation for your yeast to settle out and your flavors to meld, but it's not always the months and years that some people seem to state.

A lot of it has to do with personal preference and... Believe it or not, ABV.

So back to aging... Age how long you'd like, and if your brew has some flaws, aging might help, but really, once bottled a few weeks to a month (to sort itself out from bottle shock) is about all you ever really need.

The "Traditional way" cider was done in England and France was to put the cider in Barrels and when the apple blossoms came out in the spring the cider was considered aged enough.
Six pack ciders like Angry Orchard go from apple concentrate and apples to your local store pretty quick like 4-6 weeks, so there's no reason that can't be done at home.
I drink some of my ciders young, some I let sit in the carboy 3-4 months, the taste is different. If sugar is added, I find the raw alcohol flavor unpleasant , but that mellows with some age. But everyone has different tastes and some like it that way 2 weeks old.
I also keep my fermentation temperature low and do a slow ferment to try to preserve the apple flavor, some batches are still fermenting after 2 months.
The fast ferment at a high temperature seems to strip out much of the apple flavor (for me) so I go low and slow.
I try to not let any cider sit around more than a year.
My red wines are undrinkable without a year of aging, two years is better, white wine at least 6 months, Flanders red sour beer I age 18+ months and Trappist style Belgian ale is much better (to my taste) after 6-12 months.
So I Agree there's no magic solution in aging. If your brew or wine or cider is nasty, aging probably won't help much. But some types of beverages need some time to round off the harsh notes and come into their own.
Happy Drinking to all.......

 

[lhommedieu]

The cider came from a local orchard and a sample that I took tasted great. I'm fermenting at 60F; that's on the low end for Saflale S-04. After that picture was taken, I drilled out a stopper so that the blow-off tube could extend into the carboy (instead of a narrower stainless tube that I was using as a coupler). No point in coming back to the house in a week and finding broken glass and cider everywhere.

I plan to transfer to a secondary carboy after two weeks and let it ferment out. After that, I'll back-sweeten with apple juice concentrate and carbonate in the keg. We have a Halloween party every year, so I'll let it sit until then in my cellar.

 

[lhommedieu]

One week after pitching yeast:

See below.

 

[turbos17]

^ bad link

 

[lhommedieu]

Here's my retry:

https://youtu.be/Diowr9bCS4Y

 

[BadgerBrigade]

A lot of people seem to post that aging seems to be a necessary and crucial part of brewing... And that, in fact, somehow, through the mysteries of aging, you will stumble upon the shangri-la of alcoholic beverages.

This is not necessarily so.

Sure, you should plan for some time after your primary fermentation for your yeast to settle out and your flavors to meld, but it's not always the months and years that some people seem to state.

A lot of it has to do with personal preference and... Believe it or not, ABV.

So back to aging... Age how long you'd like, and if your brew has some flaws, aging might help, but really, once bottled a few weeks to a month (to sort itself out from bottle shock) is about all you ever really need.

All about ABV is a great statement

lhommedieu, Your cider should be about 7.9% if it finishes a 0.
I find my 6% cider is good after a month in 2ndary, 7% good after 2months... my 8% is good after 3months in 2ndary.... But thats just me.
Also the yeast strain seems to matter also. Ec-1118 i age for a bit longer but don't really like it.
At an OG of 1.050 to 1.060 I like to go about 3 weeks in primary and between 1-3months in 2ndary... thats the sweetspot for me...

 

[SerifSansSerif]

Here's my retry:

https://youtu.be/Diowr9bCS4Y

I'm not saying really it's wrong, but that much bubbling going on NEVER happens to me, and seems like the yeast is absolutely BURNING through your fermentables, and it scares me... (and not in a good way).

A slower fermentation usually (usually) results in better flavor.

 

[lhommedieu]

I thought it was strange as well. But my procedure was sound (I thought):

Cider was at 1.050; I added enough sugar to bump it up to 1.060.

Added one packet of Safale yeast.

Maintained fermentation temperature at 60 F. With the recent cold weather, it held between 58 F and 59F and dropped as low as 56 F when it was 22 F outside (my garage is uninsulated but generally about 10 F higher than outside temperature). 56 F - 59 F are not high temperatures for the yeast. Temperature probe on the fermwrap around carboy is firmly held against class and taped in under bubble wrap.

At two weeks I get about 1 bubble per second, (or less).

Cider is unpasteurized. There is no sign of infection that I can see.

So: did I do anything wrong?

 

[BadgerBrigade]

I thought it was strange as well. But my procedure was sound (I thought):

Cider was at 1.050; I added enough sugar to bump it up to 1.060.

Added one packet of Safale yeast.

Maintained fermentation temperature at 60 F.

At two weeks I get about 1 bubble per second, (or less).

Cider is unpasteurized. There is no sign of infection that I can see.

So: did I do anything wrong?

Your sugar is good... your temp is good... your yeast is good...
Dont worry or I should say RDWHHB lol
Sometimes I get crazy bubbling and sometime I get lighter bubbling... Ive done prob over 50 batches of cider and fruit wines...
trust me, your fine

 

[lhommedieu]

Thanks for your responses.

FG was 1.002 after three weeks in the primary. I put it in a secondary tonight to let it settle and will keg it next week.

Question: is this the point where I would back-sweeten?

 

[lhommedieu]

Just wanted to follow-up:

My cider's been in a kegorator for the past five months at about 35-40F (sometimes lower when I want to cold-crash something else). t was also slightly carbonated due to the CO2 that I wanted to remain in the head-space in the keg. The other day I decided to see what it might taste like if I back-sweetened it with some apple juice concentrate. II put about a tablespoon of concentrate in a glass and mixed in the cider.

It tasted terrific. I'm going to let it sit undisturbed until a few weeks before our annual Halloween party and then carbonate it to the appropriate level.

Question: How many 12 oz. apple juice concentrates for a 5 gallon keg? I plan to transfer to a closed keg after adding the concentrate and purging. I was thinking that three would produce a slightly sweet (but not overly sweet) carbonated hard cider.

 

[wolves63]

Thanks for your responses.

FG was 1.002 after three weeks in the primary. I put it in a secondary tonight to let it settle and will keg it next week.

Question: is this the point where I would back-sweeten?

I would toss in some potassium sorbate to kill off the yeast. You could just keg it and you should be ok, but to be safe and to make sure that it doesn't re-ferment I would suggest it since you are back sweetening. But do not add the concentrate until you keg it.

As for the amount to add, if you liked a teaspoon per glass just run the numbers. I do not know your glass size so I can't suggest more than below. But if your glass was 12 oz, then I think 1 can would get you want you want. Start there, get it mixed in well, then try it. Not sweet enough add more. Continue till you get want you want. Sweetness is so subjective.

1 tsp equals 0.16667 oz or 72 tsp per 12 oz.

 

[lhommedieu]

I would toss in some potassium sorbate to kill off the yeast. You could just keg it and you should be ok, but to be safe and to make sure that it doesn't re-ferment I would suggest it since you are back sweetening. But do not add the concentrate until you keg it.

As for the amount to add, if you liked a teaspoon per glass just run the numbers. I do not know your glass size so I can't suggest more than below. But if your glass was 12 oz, then I think 1 can would get you want you want. Start there, get it mixed in well, then try it. Not sweet enough add more. Continue till you get want you want. Sweetness is so subjective.

1 tsp equals 0.16667 oz or 72 tsp per 12 oz.

Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify: it's been sitting in the keg for the past 5 months. Every month or so I test the keg to make sure that there is still some CO2 in the headspace.

I gather that if I transfer to a new keg to back-sweeten and carbonate (I want to do this in a closed system with CO2) , then I run the risk of re-fermentation since there may be suspended yeast in the cider.

So I would add potassium sorbate to the new, serving keg to kill off any yeast remaining? Or not worry about it since I'm transferring at 35-40F?

 

[wolves63]

Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify: it's been sitting in the keg for the past 5 months. Every month or so I test the keg to make sure that there is still some CO2 in the headspace.

I gather that if I transfer to a new keg to back-sweeten and carbonate (I want to do this in a closed system with CO2) , then I run the risk of re-fermentation since there may be suspended yeast in the cider.

So I would add potassium sorbate to the new, serving keg to kill off any yeast remaining? Or not worry about it since I'm transferring at 35-40F?

Really if it has been 5 months I wouldn't worry about it. Especially if you transfer to a new keg (I missed that part and only paid attention to the last two posts). The yeast activity will be non-existent at this point. Also you have more dedication to cider than me. A keg will not last me 3 months and that includes fermentation!

 

[MindenMan]

I personally age all my ciders as I have had better tasting results that way. I have read the two factors that affect the aging ability of ciders ABV% and pH. To be honest, I have never checked the pH of my ciders, but my ciders usually have 8% or more ABV and I generally wait at least six months before cracking one open.

 

[lhommedieu]

Just wanted to touch base since our Halloween party is over. The cider was terrific! Guests couldn't get enough and next year I plan to ferment in a 14 G conical fermenter so that I end up with two kegs worth instead of one.

I'm going to follow the same recipe this February. The only change that I'm going to change is to use 2 frozen containers of Apple Juice concentrate instead of three (each makes a gallon of apple juice). I would call the final product "semi-sweet" and would like a drier cider next year. Still, the results were very good.

Thank you, for your responses and advice.

 

[citytransplant]

There is a local cider mill that will fill my sanitized 5 gallon carboy with unpasteurized cider, to which I'll add Safale S-04 yeast and ferment at 60F. After that I'd like to rack to a secondary and cold-crash, and then transfer to a keg.

I read the entire thread and I'm happy that your cider turned out as good as it did. Frankly, when I read your very first post (above), I thought "this is going to be a crap shoot because nothing was done to neutralize the wild yeasts."

I'm clearly not an expert, having only 2 successful seasons under my belt. With that said, isn't it recommended that wild yeasts be killed off prior to pitching?

Obviously in your case you nailed it perfectly. Two years ago when I used mostly windfalls obtained locally and spent hours pressing them, I heated about 10 gallons of the resulting juice to a certain temperature (160 degrees, perhaps) for a short period of time before adding Campden and then waited a day before pitching. In hindsight, maybe heating the juice was unnecessary on my part. Like you however, the end result was delicious.

 

[MindenMan]

Long term cider aging requires two things: one being a fairly high ABV%, and the other being a fairly low pH. Critters won't grow where there is a lot of alcohol as a rule, and highly acidic solutions don't usually grow critters either.
This year we used all the windfall apples we could get from friends and neighbors to make Golden Delicious predominant blend. The flavor is really delicious (no pun intended), but there will never be another batch like it again. We did not write the proportions of which apple varieties were used or even how much of each. It doesn't have any extra sugar added so it won't be a cider that will stand up to long aging I don't believe. It is 4 or 5 months in the primary right now and needs to be bottled and drank soon. If I remember I will post of our findings.

 

[lhommedieu]

Thank you for your responses. I remember that the ABV was 7.5; when I make another batch in February, I'll take the pH.

I'm looking forward to making the next batch.