First time brewing a Pilsner

[kenpotf]

All,

I've been asked to brew a pilsner - somewhat of a Bitburger clone for a March party. I've never EVER used a lager yeast before because I generally do IPAs and ambers. Is there anything different other than temp for fermenting? I have a temp controlled freezer, so I'm not too concerned about that part, but I didn't know if there was something special about lager yeasts that I needed to know about. On another note, has anyone used Safale's dry lager yeast? Did you like the outcome? I've never used liquid yeasts either, so I may have to for this and that would be another "new" thing for me.

Thanks!

 

[ScottG58]

Pitching rates are much higher with lager. I have not used dry yeast. When fermentation slows, you have to do a diacetyl rest by raising the temperature. You have to lager a lager. Take the temperature to around 40f for a period of time determined by your OG.

 

[roastquake]

I have gotten great results with Saflager W-34/70. My first lager was a pilsner with that yeast and it was awesome! I've heard that pilsner malt contains more of those precursors to DMS than other malts, so the wort needs to be boiled for at least 90 minutes to vaporize them.

Have fun, and happy brewing!

 

[kenpotf]

@ScottG58 - "Take the temperature to around 40f for a period of time determined by your OG."

I noticed that the Fermentis dry yeast stated somewhere between 54-59 deg for fermentation. What do you mean by your statement? Am I supposed to start it off at 40 until it doesn't take off and then raise the temperature?

Thanks!

 

[kenpotf]

@Roastquake - That's a good tip! I was going to do a standard 60 minute boil, but I guess I could do a 90 to be on the safe side.

 

[Yooper]

@ScottG58 - "Take the temperature to around 40f for a period of time determined by your OG."

I noticed that the Fermentis dry yeast stated somewhere between 54-59 deg for fermentation. What do you mean by your statement? Am I supposed to start it off at 40 until it doesn't take off and then raise the temperature?

Thanks!

Pitch a HUGE starter at 48 degrees and ferment at 50 degrees for about 10 days. When the beer is 75% finished, raise the temperature to 60 degrees for 48 hours or until finished. Then, rack the beer to a new carboy (some don't rack) and hold the beer at 34 degrees for one week for every 8-10 points of OG. For a 1.060 beer, for example, 6-8 weeks at lagering temperatures (just above freezing) would be standard.

I hope that helps!

I've never used dry lager yeast so I'm not familiar with that strain. I've used more traditional pilsner yeasts with great results, though.

As far as recipe, pilsners are the ultimate simple beer. Generally, 95% pilsner malt and 5% carapils, mashed at 150 and boiled for 90 minutes is all that is required. Using noble hops and soft, low mineralized water would also be common.

 

[poptotwoboys]

I use Saflager dry yeast from Fermentis with every batch I brew. I use both W-34/70 and the S-23. I recently split a ten gallon batch and pitched a single envelope into each fermenter. The OG was 1.044, the w-34/70 FG stopped at 1.010. The S-23 FG was 1.003. Both beers taste great, clean with a nice hop and malt balance. The S-23 in this instance, is more "crisp".

I may spark some debate, but I sprinkle a single packet for a five gallon batch and have always had excellent results. My OG are typically 1.044 and as high as 1.054; strictly a pilsner fan, never do the big beers.

 

[Spartan1979]

I've tried both W-34/70 and S-23. The Helles I brewed with the S-23 was one of the worst beers I've ever made. It came out fruitier than any beer I've ever made. This yeast has a reputation for being fruity. The beer with the w-34/70 came out fine. I'd use that yeast again although I prefer the liquid yeasts.

 

[kenpotf]

I've never used a liquid yeast, and frankly am afraid of ruining a beer. I'm also a little intimidated by Yooper's reply. It sounds like it's a lot more work doing a lager than an ale. That being said, if I brewed the lager like the ale, minus all of the temperature swings as Yooper stated, and used liquid yeast, would I at least get close to a pilsner if I just threw it in the fermenter at around 52-55 degrees, or am I looking at a resulting horrible beer? What would the difference be between a Pilsner with lager yeast and the same grain bill with an ale yeast?

 

[Riot]

Liquid yeast isn't that intimidating if you make a starter. It should probably be like 3 liters for a pilsner, but it's a relatively simple process. Boil what you can, sanitize everything, and minimize the time your starter us exposed to air. That's really all there is to it

 

[poptotwoboys]

I What would the difference be between a Pilsner with lager yeast and the same grain bill with an ale yeast?

A Kolsch is much like a Pilsner and it is fermented with an ale yeast. It is cold conditioned to clean it up. So if you brewed with the Pils grain bill and use an ale yeast with clean characteristics like US-05, I'm sure you'll end up with an excellent beer.

 

[schematix]

I would suggest that if you're making this beer for a party that you do something you're more familiar with. I'm assuming that you're looking for a beer with mass appeal and thus the request for a Pilsner. You likely won't make a great lager on your first try so I would suggest you make a blonde ale or a light pale ale. You have much more margin for error there. Keep the grain bill simple, hop conservatively and you'll be ok.

You could do a pilsner lager, but you *must* follow some basic guildelines or it won't turn out good (if you skip any of these you might as well just make an ale):
1. You need soft water (i recommend distilled plus a small amount of minerals). I'd recomend Bru'n'water's yellow balanced profile. There is some lee-way here but if you have alkaline water just use the distilled water (you're trying to impress a crowd remember). It really does make a difference.
2. Mash low (148-150) and mash long (60-90 minutes). I'd even suggest a step mash if you can, but it's not required. I like 130F(20min)->140(30)->150(20)->168(20). The step mash isn't as important as mashing low and mashing long.
3. Boil for 90 minutes if you have pilsner malt (obviously required for a Pilsner).
4. Absolutely do not pitch the beer warm. If you end up high on the temp use your temp control to bring it down, then aerate, then pitch. You need to pitch when the beer is 50 or lower (45-48 being your target). If you don't you'll have an ester bomb. Ferment at a temperature appropriate for the yeast. 50F is usually a safe number, but anything on the low end of the recommended range is going to give you a cleaner beer.
5. You MUST pitch more yeast than you'd ever consider for an ale. I've made a lot of lagers with a lot of different pitching rates and only those with ridiculous amounts of yeast had a clean flavor profile. If you do dry yeast you're looking at 2-3 packs, and for a liquid yeast, probably 4-5 unless you do a huge starter. My last batch I pitched 1 pack to 1.5L, let it run on a stir plate, then took that, and pitched it to 3L, and let that run on a stir plate. I pitched an estimated 600 BILLION cells to 5G (1.2 TRILLION to 10G). That's a lot of yeast.
6. Do the diacetyl rest when the kraussen drops. This will help reduce the butter flavor, AND will encourage the yeast to consume the last few gravity points.
7. You're really pushing your time limits here. Keep your gravity at 1.045-1.050 and get at least 4-5 weeks in cold storage.

Good luck!

 

[kenpotf]

I think you guys are right. I'll stick with what I know for this party, but I'm very intrigued by the process of lagering now. Maybe I'll start one up after the party for the summer. Thanks for everyone's reply! I'm going to look at the yeast starter process today when I get some time.