First sour questions.

[Pyg]

I brewed up a sour this weekend.
4# 2 row
3#. Wheat
.5# acidulated malt

.75 tatt hops 30 min

White Labs WLP630 Berliner Weisse Blend (contains German Weizen Ale yeast and Lacto)

Blackberry 2-3# added at secondary

Fermentation at 70F for 2 days.
I had the beginning of lacto infection
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1467071980.661801.jpg
Now that fermentation is slowing down the lacto bubbles seemed to disappeared.
I will need to rack off the yeast in the next few weeks and than age.

Does racking disrupt the lacto infection?

Does the lacto bubbles come back?

Will aging in a 5 gallon carboy with a bit of air space cause and issue?

Is there enough lacto in WLP630 Berliner Weisse Blend to cause enough sour?

Should I add a separate dose of lacto?

Should I age a bit warmer? ( I read that lacto infection like it a bit warmer)

Thanks for any help

 

[microbusbrewery]

I wouldn't really call it a lacto infection. An infection usually has a negative connotation indicating it was accidental due to poor sanitation, whereas you intentionally incorporated lacto into your fermentation.

What are you shooting for...light tartness? Very sour? If you're wanting anything more than light tartness, I would have pitched a pure lacto strain for a few days prior to pitching the blend. This ensures the lactobacillus doesn't have to compete with yeast, allowing the pH to drop fairly quickly. IBUs have a huge impact on lactobacillus' ability to produce lactic acid, so you want to keep them below 10, but the lower the better if you want more acidity. I usually use aged hops in my sours, so they're effectively 0 IBUs. If you're looking beyond slightly tart, I wouldn't rack off the cake until it's completely done fermenting. As is I think you're looking at low tartness but your best chance at developing more acidity is going to be from leaving it on the cake. Warmer temps may help, but the only time I get a decent level of acidity from a lacto-only fermentation (compared to lacto + pedio) is when I give the lacto a head start on the yeast.

 

[burninator]

I'm with @microbusbrewery. I wouldn't rack until it's done, and you're ready for fruit. My understanding is that this culture is slow to sour, but it shouldn't take so long that you need to worry about the beer aging on the cake for a few months.

 

[Pyg]

I was looking for a light to medium tartness.

I have no problem leaving it on the year cake for 3 weeks to month, which Is what I do for my ipas.

So I am guessing I will not need to age this for an entire year as the tartness will reach its peak sourness before that.

Thanks for advice

 

[m00ps]

Every time I've done a beer with fruit (sour and not) I've racked it after about 2 weeks. There isnt really a point in letting it completely "finish" in primary since the fruit will cause additional fermentation anyway. I figure its even better to have more yeast/bacteria in suspension when you rack it for faster results.

Just be sure to minimize headspace

 

[Pyg]

Every time I've done a beer with fruit (sour and not) I've racked it after about 2 weeks. There isnt really a point in letting it completely "finish" in primary since the fruit will cause additional fermentation anyway. I figure its even better to have more yeast/bacteria in suspension when you rack it for faster results.

Just be sure to minimize headspace

minimizing head space is going to be a challenge. I am cementing 5 gallons and once I rack off the yeast I will have slightly less than 5 gallons to fill a carboy which is slightly over 5 gallons.
Might have to bottle some wine to free up a 3 gallon and use 2 single gallons.
Was trying to limit the amount of equipment that was touched by this batch, even if the carboys are glass.

 

[m00ps]

3 pounds of blackberry will take up a decent amount of space. Is your carboy 5.5gal or 6.0gal? I would say getting about 4.5gal of liquid plus the blackberries should be about perfect.

I did a 2nd blackberry sour with 4lbs and racked about 5.0gal into a 6gal carboy and the additional fermentation clogged the blowoff and shot blackberries everywhere. Every time I make that beer I seem destined to ruin a carpet

 

[Pyg]

3 pounds of blackberry will take up a decent amount of space. Is your carboy 5.5gal or 6.0gal? I would say getting about 4.5gal of liquid plus the blackberries should be about perfect.

I did a 2nd blackberry sour with 4lbs and racked about 5.0gal into a 6gal carboy and the additional fermentation clogged the blowoff and shot blackberries everywhere. Every time I make that beer I seem destined to ruin a carpet

I was going to turn the 3lbs of blackberry into purée. I was under the assumption that purée would add more flavor.
I could be wrong!
Does purée beat whole fruit?

 

[prrriiide]

I was going to turn the 3lbs of blackberry into purée. I was under the assumption that purée would add more flavor.
I could be wrong!
Does purée beat whole fruit?

You'll get more flavor from the puree because a significant portion will end up in suspension in the (probably purple) finished beer, whereas just racking on to the fruit will pull a subtler flavor with no fruit juice/pieces remaining in the finished beer. You could just muddle the blackberries a little to find a happy medium. I find that subtler is better when it comes to flavoring beer. You want to drink beer, not blackberry smoothie.

 

[Pyg]

You'll get more flavor from the puree because a significant portion will end up in suspension in the (probably purple) finished beer, whereas just racking on to the fruit will pull a subtler flavor with no fruit juice/pieces remaining in the finished beer. You could just muddle the blackberries a little to find a happy medium. I find that subtler is better when it comes to flavoring beer. You want to drink beer, not blackberry smoothie.

I ended up making a purée out of 3# of blackberries which I added to secondary.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468197820.053141.jpg

when racking I noticed the sediment was white.
Is this normal?
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468197906.334096.jpg

Secondly, the beer smells sour but only has a subtle sour flavor, I imagine that over time it will get a little more sour.
However SWMBO indicates she wants not a subtle sour but prominent sourness.
Can I add something to up the sourness?
Brett? Another does of lactose?

 

[Pyg]

I guess I kind of knew that it would start refermenting.
I did not think it would blow the top off the airlock.
Guess next time I will add the fruit to primary
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468276040.736542.jpg

 

[Pyg]

3 pounds of blackberry will take up a decent amount of space. Is your carboy 5.5gal or 6.0gal? I would say getting about 4.5gal of liquid plus the blackberries should be about perfect.

I did a 2nd blackberry sour with 4lbs and racked about 5.0gal into a 6gal carboy and the additional fermentation clogged the blowoff and shot blackberries everywhere. Every time I make that beer I seem destined to ruin a carpet

My fermentation restarted.
Sent chunks of blackberry up the airlock, clogging it.
Built up enough pressure that it blew off the airlock and sent a chunk of blackberry on to the floor.
Since I ferment in the basement there was no real issue.
However I was using a nice white blanket to keep the carboy warm. The blanket now has a nice stain on it!