First Recipe- Cascade IIPA

[tbright0223]

Ok I am a fairly new brewer can trying to create my first recipe. I brewed blacklab's Cascades/Orange Pale Ale and it turned out great. I have a lb of columbus and a lb of cascade on hand so I thought of taking that recipe and trying to turn it into a IIPA. Please let me know if this is a terrible idea to begin with. I know it is not really creating a recipe since it is pretty much the same as blacklabs but I just wanted to try something different. Here is what I have so far and any suggestions are much appreciated.

Cascade IIPA
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Batch size 5 gallons
Boil size 7 gallons
Boil time 60 minutes
Grain weight 16 pounds
Efficiency 70%
Original gravity 1.085
Final gravity 1.020
Alcohol (by volume) 8.6%
Bitterness (IBU) 107
Color (SRM) 11.9°L

Yeast
White Labs California Ale
Starter: Yes

Grains/Extracts/Sugars
16 pounds
Pale Ale 38ppg, 3°L 13 pounds 81.2%
Vienna 35ppg, 4°L 1 pound 6.2%
Crystal 60L 34ppg, 60°L 1 pound 6.2%
Dry Sugar - Corn 42ppg, °L 1 pound 6.2%


Mash
60 minutes, Target 151°F
Batch Sparge

Hops
Cascade 6.9%, Pellet 1 ounce FWH
Columbus hops 14.6%, Pellet 2 ounce 60 minutes
Cascade hops 5.6%, Pellet 1 ounce 10 minutes
Cascade hops 5.6%, Pellet 1 ounce 5 minutes
Cascade hops 5.6%, Pellet 2 ounces 1 minutes
Columbus hops 14.6%, Pellet 1 ounce 1 minutes
Cascade hops 5.6%, Pellet 2 ounce Dry Hop 7 days
Columbus hops 14.6%, Pellet 2 ounce Dry Hop 7 days

Additions

Crushed Coriander 1 ounce 10 minutes
Orange peel 2 ounces 10 minutes
Orange peel 1 ounce Added to fermenter for 7 days

 

[Piratwolf]

Looks okay to me. I prefer to use Munich rather than Vienna, but if it's from a recipe you like then I'd run with the Vienna. EDIT: I'd also look into using liquid yeast and making starters if you're going to get into bigger beers. The fermentation quality has such a huge impact on beer, and stressed yeast don't produce your best IIPA in my experience.

 

[Yooper]

I'd be inclined to reduce the mash temp, to about 150-152. I find that if I mash at 154, bigger beers don't finish quite as well.

I like the recipe, although I've never used spices in an IPA so I can't speak to the coriander and orange peel.

 

[tbright0223]

Yea I have noticed that I haven't seen too many additions to an IPA probably because it's suppose to focus mainly on the hops but I think it will add nice flavor and aroma to the cascade and columbus. I will definitely take your advice and lower the mash temp though.

 

[bobbrews]

I like the advice you have received so far. I would also try my BEST to lower that FG by several points. On a lighter note, I would also bitter with columbus, not cascade... and the dryhop could use another ounce.

 

[slarkin712]

When using orange peel or zest and most other spices I like to add them with a minute or two left. This keeps most of their flavor from being boiled off. Also, for orange I much prefer fresh zest to peel. This gives a bigger more intense orange flavor in my opinion.

Edit: I think that by "Full Wort Hop" you mean first wort hopping. This is when you add hops into the kettle when draining your mash tun first runnings. Also, with all the late hop additions that you have, you might consider doing a hop stand where you don't immediately cool the wort after you remove your heat source. The hops can steep for 20-30 minutes longer as the wort slowly cools after the boil. This will extract some more flavor and aroma from your late hop additions. Then cool your wort as normal.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Looks good to me! A couple of observations: I'd either use 2 packs of S-04 or rack to a yeast cake for a beer that big. Looks to me like you will get way less than 5 gallons if your boil is only 6.1 gallons taking into account all the hops etc. but of course that depends on your system. I think the FG is bound to be lower since you have simple sugar in the recipe. I'd also mash below 154. I assume the orange peel in the fermenter will be sanitized some way? I'd probably soak it in vodka a few days.

 

[tbright0223]

Really appreciating all of the feedback!!

Bob- as Steve said I think the fg will drop even more because of the sugars that are being added and I am all for adding another oz for the dry hop. I think another oz of cascade probably.

Slarkin- yes I did mean first wort hop and not full wort. Thanks for the correction and I will give the hop stand a try after the boil to try and get more flavors from the last minute additions.

Steve - I was thinking of changing to liquid yeast and making a big starter. Do you think this would be better and should I go with a basic 1056 yeast for this?? Also I noticed that my boil volume looked small when I calculated this. I don't think the program I was using takes account for all the hops being boiled. I also am going to mash a little lower around 151 or so to get the most fermentables.

Thanks again everyone and keep the advice coming.

 

[medusa1066]

Isn't a starter of US-05 equivalent to a starter of liquid yeast?

 

[bobbrews]

You don't make a starter with dry yeast, and no, dry yeast is not always equivalent to a healthy starter of something like WLP001 or 1056. Both will get the job done to some extent, but for bigger beers especially, a starter of WLP001/1056 may attenuate more and give you a better overall beer.

At 1.087 OG, dry yeast (multiple packets or not) would never be an option in my mind. Yes, it will get the job done (to some extent). But I want my BIG beers to be the best they can be so I make starters for them with the appropriate liquid yeast. It's up to you if you want to take the advice or not. I would do some more reading on the topic if I were you.

Sure, the FG will drop from 1.020 with 6% sugar and mashing at 151-ish, but not down to 1.011.
You'll probably end up at more like 1.016 FG

 

[tbright0223]

Ok I have never used white labs but maybe this will be my first time. Would you recommend that over using 2 packs of rehydrated dry yeast. Ad what else would you recommend to drop my fg even more??

 

[medusa1066]

You don't make a starter with dry yeast, and no, dry yeast is not always equivalent to a healthy starter of something like WLP001. Both will get the job done to some extent, but for bigger beers especially, a starter of WLP001 may attenuate more and give you a better overall beer.

Why not?

 

[GlenF]

Lower Mash temp to 150 +/- 2 degrees.

Also, double your dry hop. 2 oz for a IIPA is very low. I do that for my pale ales. 4oz will give you a lot of flavor and aroma that could be expected in a nice IIPA.

 

[tbright0223]

Lower Mash temp to 150 +/- 2 degrees.

Also, double your dry hop. 2 oz for a IIPA is very low. I do that for my pale ales. 4oz will give you a lot of flavor and aroma that could be expected in a nice IIPA.

Sounds good yea seems like everyone is recommending the lower mash temp so I will def do that and I will raise the dry hop to 4oz. Do you think 2 oz of each or should I go with more cascade so the Columbus doesn't overpower it.

 

[GlenF]

Depends on what flavor/ aroma you're going for. Cascade is more floral and citrus. Columbus is more dank/ resin/ spicy. A blend would be good. If you're looking for more citrus, go 3:1 cascade: columbus. If you want more resin/ pine/ spice, go 3:1 columbus: cascade.

Since you're wanting more citrus and using orange peel, maybe cascade forward will get you where you want to go. But 2/2 even ratio might add a level of complexity that you otherwise wouldn't see with such a citrus forward beer. It really is your call. Either way, I'm sure it will be a great beer. And you can always re-brew to tweak.

 

[tbright0223]

Ok so I made some minor changes to the recipe based on every ones suggestions. Lowered the mash to 151, added another oz of columbus at 60, and changed the DH to 4oz total. I also checked the AA% of my hops and changed those to match so the IBUS are a little different now. I also decided to go with the white labs yeast with a big starter to try and drop my fg a little bit. Thanks for all the input and I should be brewing this very soon so I will definitely keep this thread updated on how it turns out.

 

[tbright0223]

Well finally got to the LHBS and picked up all the ingredients for this an am going to brew it tonight. Started with a 1 liter starter of White Labs California Ale and then stepped it up to 3 liters last night. Should I put the starter in the fridge when I get home to settle the yeast so I can decant some of the wort of should I just toss the whole thing in??? This is the biggest beer I have done so far so I am a little nervous.

 

[Yooper]

Well finally got to the LHBS and picked up all the ingredients for this an am going to brew it tonight. Started with a 1 liter starter of White Labs California Ale and then stepped it up to 3 liters last night. Should I put the starter in the fridge when I get home to settle the yeast so I can decant some of the wort of should I just toss the whole thing in??? This is the biggest beer I have done so far so I am a little nervous.

If you're brewing tonight, you won't have time to stick the starter in the fridge to have it settle, unfortunately. You'll have to pitch the whole thing.

 

[tbright0223]

Well I brewed this recipe up last Friday and thought it went really well until the end of the boil when I started taking gravity readings. It was my foray time using my new keggle and I don't have a sight glass so I didn't measure how much I drained from my mash and sparge. I imagine I got too much since I ended with a OG of 1.071. Good news is after only 5 days my huge starter of white labs California ale dropped this thing to 1.008. So I'm gonna take another reading in a few days then it's time to dry hop.

Ps the sample tasted really good already.