First Original Recipe - Advice

[GeoffHaines]

Gents,

I'm doing my first original recipe (a 5 gallon IPA). I'm looking for a juicy, dank, hoppy tasting beer with slight bitterness similar to Trillium: Congress Street or Cellarmaker: Permanent Daylight.

I'm looking for either validation or advice to make this recipe better:

Grain Bill:
Amount Fermentable
9.0 lb Pale Ale (CA)
4.0 lb Munich Light (DE)

Hops:
Amount Hop Time
0.3 oz Columbus (US) 40 min
0.3 oz Citra (US) 40 min
0.3 oz Nelson Sauvin (NZ) 40 min
0.5 oz Columbus (US) 10 min
0.5 oz Citra (US) 10 min
0.5 oz Nelson Sauvin (NZ) 10 min
0.7 oz Citra (US) 5 min
0.7 oz Nelson Sauvin (NZ) 5 min
0.7 oz Columbus (US) 5 min
1.5 oz Citra (US) Dry Hop in primary
0.5 oz Nelson Sauvin (NZ) Dry Hop in primary
0.5 oz Columbus (US) Dry Hop in primary

Yeast:
WLP001 x2 (1 w/ starter 1 without)

 

[Calder]

I've never had any of those beers, so please disregard any of my comments if they don't line up.

No crystal? I usually use minimal crystal. About 0.5 lbs in an IPA, I think it adds a little sweetness to the taste.

What temp are you mashing? I assume low (148 - 150).

I don't know why you have 3 different hops at 40 minutes, they add virtually no flavor. I'd just have a single hop addition at 60 minutes. Make it Columbus.

I like Citra, I like Nelson Sauvin. I'm not sure they mix. I wouldn't mix NS with Columbus for finishing either. Your beer, your call. I think I'd drop the NS and up the Citra. Centennial, Cascade, or Amarillo would go well with them if you really wanted a third hop.

You add hops at 10 and 5, but none at 0. I like to add as much at 0 as I add at any other addition. I cool the wort to between 170 - 180 F (I target 175 F), and then add the 0 min addition. Leave with lid on to steep for 30 minutes, stirring occasionally. The temp is above pasteurizing temp, so no worries about what you stir with. Then cool quick.

Why not add both vials to the starter. Why 2 vials if you are making a starter.

What are/is the IBUs? Looks like it is low for an IPA.

 

[OscarBrau]

Looks good to me. Using crystal malt is a matter of preference - it adds some sweetness and a little body. The munich will probably take care of that. I personally try to avoid crystal malts if I can.

I agree that three different bittering hops is unnecessary. I would stick with columbus at 40 min. Citra has been known to be an iffy or even bad bittering hop.

 

[GeoffHaines]

I've never had any of those beers, so please disregard any of my comments if they don't line up.

No crystal? I usually use minimal crystal. About 0.5 lbs in an IPA, I think it adds a little sweetness to the taste.

What temp are you mashing? I assume low (148 - 150).

I don't know why you have 3 different hops at 40 minutes, they add virtually no flavor. I'd just have a single hop addition at 60 minutes. Make it Columbus.

I like Citra, I like Nelson Sauvin. I'm not sure they mix. I wouldn't mix NS with Columbus for finishing either. Your beer, your call. I think I'd drop the NS and up the Citra. Centennial, Cascade, or Amarillo would go well with them if you really wanted a third hop.

You add hops at 10 and 5, but none at 0. I like to add as much at 0 as I add at any other addition. I cool the wort to between 170 - 180 F (I target 175 F), and then add the 0 min addition. Leave with lid on to steep for 30 minutes, stirring occasionally. The temp is above pasteurizing temp, so no worries about what you stir with. Then cool quick.

Why not add both vials to the starter. Why 2 vials if you are making a starter.

What are/is the IBUs? Looks like it is low for an IPA.

I appreciate the response.

I plan to mash at 151.

My theory was to use the same mixture of hop additions throughout to keep the flavor even, as if I would actually be able to taste it. It makes sense to use just columbus for bittering.

There were a few reasons I chose these three varieties of hops. 1) They're my favorite. 2) They impart resinous, "dank" effect. I Just made a single hop Citra IPA which was super smooth and tasty but I was looking for a little more dank. I know this sounds redundant but I don't have any other way of explaining the taste I like

I am definitely going to hop at 0 minutes. I never tried letting the wort sit prior to running it through my plate chiller and pitching yeast. You gave a pretty good run through of what you do. Can you provide a little more detail so I can replicate during this next brew session?

As far as my starter goes- I only have a 1000ml starter and I used this technique last time. The starter took off immediately and worked great and the vial I think lasted a little longer allowing my beer to reach a little over my target FG. The fermentation lasted almost two weeks which I thought was odd but the beer came out tasting good so I didn't want to change it up.

IBU's are a little low, around 70 but I'm okay with that.

I appreciate the help.

 

[ong]

It looks pretty tasty. Agreed that the bittering is a little fussy, but it won't hurt anything. I think you're fine leaving out crystal -- just personal taste.

I would like to see a hop steep as well. You could lessen some of your late additions if you want to save money, but add at least 2 oz., preferably 3 after the wort has cooled to around 190 degrees, then hold at or near that temp for 30-45 mins. Won't add any appreciable bitterness, but will add a ton of hop flavor.

But the recipe you have looks very drinkable as is.

 

[m00ps]

Totally agree with others. Dont bother with the busy bittering additions. Just do an oz of something at 60 and be done with it. I also do hopstands for absolutely anything I want to have the hops at the forefront. Pick you favorite 1 or 2 types and toss in at least 2 oz of each for a hopstand. Youll be glad you did. Id do a 60 min, a 15-10 min, then the 0min addition. Itll be much easier on you

Mashing low like they said will make for a great IPA. I usually do 148. I also like to add some cane sugar to mine to dry them out. But you dont have any specialty malts, so it may be pretty dry as it is. All in all, better than 90% of "first try" recipes I see going around here

 

[m00ps]

oh, also, on the dank thing:

I made a dank bomb amber ale. I did my research and even found a poll where brewers voted. Columbus is definitely the #1 choice for a bittering hop, and you can add some for dry hopping too. Nelson was up there, but its dankness kinda varies depending on how it meshes with other hops. Simcoe can be very dank depending on the harvest year. Citra and Galaxy can both be dank too. Schlafly's Tazmanian IPA is 100% galaxy. The 2013 version was tropical mango tasting but this years is ridiculously dank IME. But #1 for a dank aroma was comet. So I'd recommend finding a bit of that and tossing that into the dry hop.

 

[NorthwestBrewman2013]

No crystal? I usually use minimal crystal. About 0.5 lbs in an IPA, I think it adds a little sweetness to the taste.

I don't know why you have 3 different hops at 40 minutes, they add virtually no flavor. I'd just have a single hop addition at 60 minutes. Make it Columbus.

Why not add both vials to the starter. Why 2 vials if you are making a starter.

What are/is the IBUs? Looks like it is low for an IPA.[/QUOTE]


IPA's vary a ton based on SRM and profile preferences. I've brewed an IPA with Crystal and 2-row only, one with 2-row and other specialty malts and also one with 2-row and White Wheat. All turned out fantastic. It really is a preference thing.

I would First Wort Hop (FWH) with Citra, honestly. It's a great bittering hop IMO. Columbus would work well too. Also, mixing hops during the bittering isn't a bad deal. Each hop has a different kind of bittering it can add. Hell, it could even make the beer better.

Bottom line, do what makes you happy. Brewing is an awesome way to use your own creativity. If you screw up you know what not to do next time.

Cheers!

 

[joshesmusica]

As for the bitterness, a lot of people talk about IBUs, but in order to figure out perceived bitterness, the og:ibu ratio is a better indicator. if you like a slight bitterness, and a bit more pronounced sweetness, do less IBUs than OG. if you like a pretty balanced taste, (obviously) make them balanced. if you like more bitterness than sweetness, you get the point.
another thing to think about for the sweetness aspect is the fg, though, too. if you're completely drying the thing out, then the perceived bitterness will be higher. (this is where I would recommend to take good notes on taste, then you can mess around with all of the aforementioned aspects, and compare your own notes in order to really hone in on your preferred tastes.)

the hopstand/whirlpool portion of hops will add a slight bit of bitterness. just so you know. it's very little, but it's still there. also, a lot of recommendations i've read, and something i've experienced in my last two beers since i read up on it, is that you should do the same amount in the hopstand and dry hop portions.

as far as the columbus, i know a lot of homebrewers that will do chinook as late additions. read this to put your worries to rest about that:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/columbus-late-addition-dry-hop-403995/

and lastly, as far as the combo of nelson sauvin and citra work, one of my most requested beers had that combo as the dry hop. it was a hoppy american wheat, and i had about 10 people tell me before they tried it "i don't really like beer that much." after they tried it they wanted a bottle for themselves. my father in law usually sticks to pilsners and lagers, and after he tried it he requested a batch for his house and a batch for a big 50th birthday party he was having. Granted I don't know how they will play out if you add the columbus in there, but you might as well try it. i would assume that at the worst it will be an average beer with the potential to be a great one!

if you do the hopstand and dry hopping with all three, please be sure to share the results. i will be very interested to hear about it!

 

[BrewerE]

Citra has been known to be an iffy or even bad bittering hop.

Zombie Dust is on line one and PsuedoSue is on line two (both all citra)

 

[OscarBrau]

Zombie Dust is on line one and PsuedoSue is on line two (both all citra)

I stand corrected.

 

[GeoffHaines]

As for the bitterness, a lot of people talk about IBUs, but in order to figure out perceived bitterness, the og:ibu ratio is a better indicator. if you like a slight bitterness, and a bit more pronounced sweetness, do less IBUs than OG. if you like a pretty balanced taste, (obviously) make them balanced. if you like more bitterness than sweetness, you get the point.
another thing to think about for the sweetness aspect is the fg, though, too. if you're completely drying the thing out, then the perceived bitterness will be higher. (this is where I would recommend to take good notes on taste, then you can mess around with all of the aforementioned aspects, and compare your own notes in order to really hone in on your preferred tastes.)

the hopstand/whirlpool portion of hops will add a slight bit of bitterness. just so you know. it's very little, but it's still there. also, a lot of recommendations i've read, and something i've experienced in my last two beers since i read up on it, is that you should do the same amount in the hopstand and dry hop portions.

as far as the columbus, i know a lot of homebrewers that will do chinook as late additions. read this to put your worries to rest about that:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/columbus-late-addition-dry-hop-403995/

and lastly, as far as the combo of nelson sauvin and citra work, one of my most requested beers had that combo as the dry hop. it was a hoppy american wheat, and i had about 10 people tell me before they tried it "i don't really like beer that much." after they tried it they wanted a bottle for themselves. my father in law usually sticks to pilsners and lagers, and after he tried it he requested a batch for his house and a batch for a big 50th birthday party he was having. Granted I don't know how they will play out if you add the columbus in there, but you might as well try it. i would assume that at the worst it will be an average beer with the potential to be a great one!

if you do the hopstand and dry hopping with all three, please be sure to share the results. i will be very interested to hear about it!

As promised- The results were pretty great. I called a audible on brew day and ended up adding 2lbs of rolled oats for a bit of mouthfeel. I'm glad I did.

I think the only thing I would change is adding one hop addition a bit sooner or increasing the earliest addition. Its got a great hoppy flavor but I was focused so hard on it being hoppy in flavor and not overly bitter that I don't have much bitterness at all.

I'll definitely make this recipe again. Its a juicy IPA and the nelson hops really kick ass and gave this brew a killer taste and aroma.

Thanks for the help Gents.