First NEIPA. Feedback?

[apache_brew]

I decided to take my first stab at a hazy beer to see what the fuss is all about. Any recipe or process feedback would be great!


Method: BIABStyle: Specialty IPA: New England IPABoil Time: 60 minBatch Size: 12.5 gallons (fermentor volume)Pre Boil Size: 14.28 gallonsPost Boil Size: 12.78 gallonsPre Boil Gravity: 1.056 (recipe based estimate)Efficiency: 70% (brew house)Calories: 206 calories (Per 12oz)Carbs: 17.9 g (Per 12oz)

Original Gravity:
1.063
Final Gravity:
1.011
ABV (standard):
6.81%
IBU (tinseth):
35.99
SRM (morey):
4.45

Mash pH
5.55
Cost $
103.49


Fermentables

31 lb / $ 29.92
Amount	Fermentable	Cost	PPG	°L	Bill %
25 lb	Rahr - Standard 2-Row	$ 0.90 / lb $ 22.50	36.8	1.8	80.6%
1 lb	Weyermann - Munich Type I	$ 1.27 / lb $ 1.27	38	6	3.2%
2.50 lb	Flaked Oats	$ 1.30 / lb $ 3.25	33	2.2	8.1%
2.50 lb	Flaked Wheat	$ 1.16 / lb $ 2.90	34	2	8.1%

Hops

28.4 oz / $ 53.00
Amount	Variety	Cost	Type	AA	Use	Time	IBU	Bill %
2 oz	BSG - Idaho 7	$ 23.50 / lb $ 2.94	Pellet	14.1	Boil	10 min	14.68	7%
3.50 oz	BSG - Idaho 7	$ 23.50 / lb $ 5.14	Pellet	14.1	Whirlpool	10 min	14.79	12.3%
2 oz	BSG - Mosaic	$ 35.00 / lb $ 4.38	Pellet	10.9	Whirlpool	10 min	6.53	7%
9 oz	BSG - Idaho 7	$ 23.50 / lb $ 13.22	Pellet	14.1	Dry Hop at 68 °F	5 days		31.7%
5 oz	BSG - Mosaic	$ 35.00 / lb $ 10.94	Pellet	10.9	Dry Hop at 68 °F	5 days		17.6%
6.90 oz	Citra	$ 38.00 / lb $ 16.39	Pellet	11	Dry Hop at 68 °F	5 days		24.3%

Mash Guidelines

Amount	Description	Type	Temp	Time
16.6 gal		Strike	149 °F	60 min

Other Ingredients

$ 2.61
Amount	Name	Cost	Type	Use	Time
2 tbsp	Wyeast - Beer Nutrient	$ 2.32 / oz $ 2.32	Water Agt	Boil	10 min.
18 g	Calcium Chloride (dihydrate)	$ 5.00 / lb $ 0.20	Water Agt	Mash	1 hr.
10 g	Gypsum	$ 4.00 / lb $ 0.09	Water Agt	Mash	1 hr.

Yeast

Lallemand - Verdant IPA
Amount: 3 Each Cost: $ 5.99 / each $ 17.97 Attenuation (avg): 80% Flocculation: High Optimum Temp: 64 - 73 °F Starter: No Fermentation Temp: 68 °F Pitch Rate: 1.0 (M cells / ml / ° P) 731 B cells required

Priming

Method: co2 Amount: 9.22 psi CO2 Level: 2.5 Volumes

Target Water Profile
Balanced Profile

Ca+2	Mg+2	Na+	Cl-	SO4-2	HCO3-
121.8	2	9	144	95.3	26.1

 

[apache_brew]

I oxiginated during transfer to the fermenter, and pitched 3 packs of hydrated Verdant IPA (not sure if this was too much) at 68 deg F and fermentation kicked off in 6 hours. @ 1.019, I dry hopped by blowing CO2 down my racking cane and bubbling up through the beer while opening the tri clamp lid to toss in the hops and raised the ferm temp to 71 degrees. Capped the fermenter after dry hop, and let it finish out until FG reached 1.011 on day 6 (is this too low for the style?). At that point, pressure inside the fermenter reached 25 psi, so I spunded down to 20 psi to try and prevent overcarbing. Right now its on 48 hrs of cold crashing (33 deg F) and I'm getting ready to keg tonight. Internal pressure of the fermenter has dropped to 8 psi (not sure if the beer has fully absorbed all the CO2 or if the vapor pressure change has more to do with the drop). The beer taste great to me off the fermenter. Definitely hazy, maybe a little hop bite, mouthfeel might by on the dryer side. I guess I should try some commercial examples to find out what to look for. I didn't want to exceed 15% adjunct with the wheat and oats, but it seemed to be sufficient at at-least achieving the visual haze. Aroma is pretty great right now, I'm curious how it holds up with some time in the keg. I'm a little bummed with the color/appearance. I was hoping for that bright mango/orange juice looking color. I'm not sure if my appearance is due to oxidation (always possible with these beers from my understanding) or if the Munich malt (3.2%) was the culprit.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Looks great in my opinion!

On my last one, I went 20% white wheat and 10% malted oats. I loved the look and feel of it. Looked very close to yours. Pictures made mine look a tad darker than it really was. Picture below. I think on future revisions, I'd keep it around the 30% for wheat/oats. I may experiment with going up to 40% but I think that might be overkill. The mouthfeel on my last one pictured below was spot on in my opinion.

1.011 FG is a bit low in my opinion for the style. I think 1.016 is the lowest I'd go. My last one was 1.017 and I think on future revisions I might try and get it around 1.018/1.019. I don't know if I'd like it that high, but I definitely want to try it before I say that 1.017 is my target FG for the style.

I think the color you're looking for would be achieved with a bit of honey malt. I believe I know the color you're talking about and from what I hear, the key to that is honey malt. Try incorporating that next time. Not too much though, it's easily overdone. Your beer doesn't look oxidized in that picture. They can take on a grey, almost purple color when they oxidize.

What I'd be curious to see is if the haze holds up after time. I've done a couple of these at 15% wheat/oats and the haze never holds up. It always ends up clearing on me.

Overall, it looks good from the picture!

 

[apache_brew]

Looks great in my opinion!

On my last one, I went 20% white wheat and 10% malted oats. I loved the look and feel of it. Looked very close to yours. Pictures made mine look a tad darker than it really was. Picture below. I think on future revisions, I'd keep it around the 30% for wheat/oats. I may experiment with going up to 40% but I think that might be overkill. The mouthfeel on my last one pictured below was spot on in my opinion.

1.011 FG is a bit low in my opinion for the style. I think 1.016 is the lowest I'd go. My last one was 1.017 and I think on future revisions I might try and get it around 1.018/1.019. I don't know if I'd like it that high, but I definitely want to try it before I say that 1.017 is my target FG for the style.

I think the color you're looking for would be achieved with a bit of honey malt. I believe I know the color you're talking about and from what I hear, the key to that is honey malt. Try incorporating that next time. Not too much though, it's easily overdone. Your beer doesn't look oxidized in that picture. They can take on a grey, almost purple color when they oxidize.

What I'd be curious to see is if the haze holds up after time. I've done a couple of these at 15% wheat/oats and the haze never holds up. It always ends up clearing on me.

Overall, it looks good from the picture!

Thanks! I agree the 15% wheat/oats I used were conservative. I think the next batch I'll up that in relation to how this holds up in the keg overtime.

Good call on the honey malt. I'll look into it. Never used it so I'm not sure how it will make an impact aside from appearance like you're talking about.

With the high attentuation I got, I'm thinking it could be due to either a combination of low mash temp and smaller adjuct % in the grain bill. The dry finish is what I normally like in my IPAs, but I don't think represents what's looked for with these type of beers.

I really hope it's not oxidation like you're saying. I feel like I'm OCD already by purging everything and not having any air touch beer after yeast has been pitched with my process. Time will tell.

 

[Rob2010SS]

In regards to the attenuation, I would also try a yeast that is a little less aggressive. OYL-011, WY1318, WLP066 are good choices for the style. I've never used the yeast that you used here but if my math is correct, you got roughly 82% attenuation. The yeasts above will not attenuate that far and will leave you with a little more residual sweetness. And yes, I would also mash a bit higher.

With the honey malt, it does just as it sounds. Adds a bit of sweetness and color to the beer. Again, a little goes a long way in this style. The times I used it in a NEIPA, it was like .25# in a 6 gallon batch. Probably could have gone a bit heavier in those cases.

 

[Dgallo]

Looks pretty good to me. Idk how much you got from 1lb of Munich 1, my guess would be not to much, maybe next time trying 3% of cara Munich or honey malt

 

[apache_brew]

Looks pretty good to me. Idk how much you got from 1lb of Munich 1, my guess would be not to much, maybe next time trying 3% of cara Munich or honey malt

Oops. It was 1lb (3.2%), but I get what you're saying.

 

[Dgallo]

Oops. It was 1lb (3.2%), but I get what you're saying.

Yeah I was specifically talking about since Munich 1 is a 7-11 L and both of the ones I mentioned are 20-30L and have much more character

 

[couchsending]

That FG is totally fine. You don’t need to aim higher at all. You most likely got some hop creep which is why it got to where it did.

2-3% of a lowish L crystal/cara malt will give you a little “brighter” color. Honey malt, Simpson’s Caramalt, or Belgian Aromatic malt are good options.

Or even less, 1% of a British C40 or Caramunich.

I might switch the percentages of Idaho7/Citra/Mosaic in the DH a bit but other than that looks really good.

You don’t need more flaked adjuncts than what you used. You could even use less.

 

[Rob2010SS]

That FG is totally fine. You don’t need to aim higher at all. You most likely got some hop creep which is why it got to where it did.

2-3% of a lowish L crystal/cara malt will give you a little “brighter” color. Honey malt, Simpson’s Caramalt, or Belgian Aromatic malt are good options.

Or even less, 1% of a British C40 or Caramunich.

I might switch the percentages of Idaho7/Citra/Mosaic in the DH a bit but other than that looks really good.

You don’t need more flaked adjuncts than what you used. You could even use less.

OP made a comment about how it's a bit on the dryer side. Wouldn't he want to increase the FG if he wanted to change that?

 

[hopfenstopfen]

OP made a comment about how it's a bit on the dryer side. Wouldn't he want to increase the FG if he wanted to change that?

For sure, but some of that apparent attenuation is likely do to hop creep from dry hopping at those temps/yeast in suspension. Crash the yeast before dry hopping & the FG may end up slightly higher. Anecdotally, I’ve brewed different batches that finish at 1.010 with warm & cool dry hop temps & the cool dry hop beer is fuller to my palate. Worth trying out.

 

[apache_brew]

That FG is totally fine. You don’t need to aim higher at all. You most likely got some hop creep which is why it got to where it did.

2-3% of a lowish L crystal/cara malt will give you a little “brighter” color. Honey malt, Simpson’s Caramalt, or Belgian Aromatic malt are good options.

Or even less, 1% of a British C40 or Caramunich.

I might switch the percentages of Idaho7/Citra/Mosaic in the DH a bit but other than that looks really good.

You don’t need more flaked adjuncts than what you used. You could even use less.

I haven't brewed a whole lot of heavily dry hopped beers, but I did notice a big spike in yeast activity when I dry hopped. Could have been partially due to the increase in temperature and rocking the fermenter to rouse up yeast. I'm definitely going to look at adding another crystal/cara malt like you and others have mentioned in future batches.

The dry hop schedules are kind of a guessing game at this point of what I have available and the grower suggested pairings. Any thoughts of preferable percentages?

Below was my fermentation log

9/5: OG =1.063 @ 68F w/blow off tube
9/6: SG =1.045 @ 68F
9/7: SG =1.022 @ 68F
9/8: SG =1.020 @ 68F
9/9: SG =1.019 @ 68F ---> Dry hop--->Cap fermenter--->raise temp to 71F (shake fermenter)
9/10: SG=1.015 @ 71F (Fermenter pressure spunding @ 24psi)
9/11: SG=1.012 @ 71F (Fermenter pressure spunding @ 24psi)
9/12: SG=1.011 @ 71F (dropped fermenter pressure to spunding @ 20psi)
9/13: SG=1.011---> Cold crash to 33F (fermenter pressure dropped to 8 psi due to thermal expansion)
9/16: Rack into serving kegs

I think it still needs a touch more carbonation, but it's pretty close right now off the fermenter.

 

[couchsending]

I haven't brewed a whole lot of heavily dry hopped beers, but I did notice a big spike in yeast activity when I dry hopped. Could have been partially due to the increase in temperature and rocking the fermenter to rouse up yeast. I'm definitely going to look at adding another crystal/cara malt like you and others have mentioned in future batches.

The dry hop schedules are kind of a guessing game at this point of what I have available and the grower suggested pairings. Any thoughts of preferable percentages?

Below was my fermentation log

9/5: OG =1.063 @ 68F w/blow off tube
9/6: SG =1.045 @ 68F
9/7: SG =1.022 @ 68F
9/8: SG =1.020 @ 68F
9/9: SG =1.019 @ 68F ---> Dry hop--->Cap fermenter--->raise temp to 71F (shake fermenter)
9/10: SG=1.015 @ 71F (Fermenter pressure spunding @ 24psi)
9/11: SG=1.012 @ 71F (Fermenter pressure spunding @ 24psi)
9/12: SG=1.011 @ 71F (dropped fermenter pressure to spunding @ 20psi)
9/13: SG=1.011---> Cold crash to 33F (fermenter pressure dropped to 8 psi due to thermal expansion)
9/16: Rack into serving kegs

Personally I’d be very careful of capping a fermentation when adding dry hops before terminal.

Some yeasts can handle pressure, some can’t. Hops (especially high hopping loads of high alpha hops) can be pretty detrimental to yeast health. Introducing hops in the final stages of fermentation can prevent yeast from “cleaning up” after itself and acetaldehyde can become a problem among other yeast health related issues. A lot of the best hoppy beer brewers on the west coast have stopped capping tanks until beers are negative for VDK and hop creep has finished.

With hop creep you really never know where your beer is going to finish especially if you’re dry hopping at fermentation temps with all the yeast present. I find it best to let fermentation finish, let it rest for a few days, then cool to 55/60 and ideally remove yeast (which you can’t do in the keg) and then dry hop at those lower temps to reduce the potential for hop creep.

You could also just let fermentation finish and add the hops at ferm temps but not cap the fermenter and wait until gravity is stable. Personally I think hop aroma always suffers when hoppy beers are spunded or naturally carbonated. Too much yeast in suspension will drag aromatic compounds down with them when they flocc. Mouthfeel is great and you ensure minimal o2 pickup but aroma always suffers.

 

[TBA]

@apache brew. Did you rehydrate the Verdant IPA yeast before pitching? Anyone else have experience with this yeast, pitch rate, rehydration, starter, harvesting, etc?

 

[apache_brew]

Yep, rehydrated in 100 ml of boiled and chilled tap water at about 95F. It formed a big krausen so fast that it almost foamed over on me before I could pitch it. I probably could have gotten away with (2) 11g packs for this 12 gallon batch, it was my first time using it (or any dry yeast in a long time) so I wanted to be sure it would feast on the beer. I don't harvest any of my yeast (not set up to, and it's a PITA) but even if I did, I don't think a heavily dry hopped beer with dry yeast is best suited for harvesting.

 

[TBA]

So I used one sachet. I rehydrated per the lallamond instructions. Recipe was as close as I could get to the Even Sharks Need Water from Verdant. OG was 1.067 5.5 gallons. Fermentation schedule was pitch at 64, rise to 66 until 1.030 then rise to 72. I top cropped yeast at 1.030. When Tilt showed 1.017 I ran forced diacetyl tests 3 days in a row until I was sure it was clean. Then soft crashed to 57. The next day dry hopped. After 48 hours cold crashed to 35. 36 hours later kegged. 24 hours at 35 psi then lowered and serve. 14 days grain to glass.

My best NEIPA ever! So pleased with the appearance and taste! Can’t wait to see what the second generation yeast does.