First lager - didnt make a starter - now what?

[bruhaha]

Considering your lager yeast is working in cool environment, fermentation in general and the first signs of activity will be somewhat delayed over what you may be used to in an ale with higher ferm temps.

Yeast, when stressed, tends to throw some flavors that can be a good thing or a bad thing. In the case of a clean lager, this is considered a bad thing. In the case of a Hefeweisen, stressed yeast throws esters and phenols, and this is a good thing to many brewers. So, yeast management can vary according to your beer and your goals.

So, what do you do now? First and foremost, temperature stability is key in a lager. Give this beer some time considering it is probably stressed trying to build a yeast count. Personally, I'd give your lager a few more days at 50F than you may have planned. Then, go up slightly toward 65F for your D-Rest where fermentation will be more active and finish up and hopefully clean itself of some unwanted flavors. Cold crashing in your fermenter and adding some gelatin finings is a technique I employee.

If I may suggest, take a look Brulosophy and read their take on lager beers. Lagers can be very rewarding but also very tricky. Temp control and proper yeast management will reward you with a clean lager.

 

[n8huntsman]

Just do a nice long rest at like 65 degrees near the end and you should be ok. Will help clean up whatever off flavors may have been created by the under pitch.

It bubbled since day 6. but bubbles in the airlock subsided two days ago, on day 9. We are now at day 11. I pulled a sample and it's down to 1.021 from 1.05. Expected fg is 1.012 so Im right at 75%. I peaked under the lid and there is a lot of krausen still floating on top. I'm thinking I might begin to raise the temp to 65 over the next three days. And let it sit at 65 for an additional 3 to clean up and finish, before I cold crash it down to 35. Does it sound too early to begin that?

 

[PGEduardo]

Do a search on bubbles - they don't really mean anything beyond initial vigorous fermentation.

I would definitely let it start warming up. Since you have concerns about off flavors, I'd give it a couple of weeks at 70f. 3 days is probably not enough...

 

[g-star]

I made a steam lager this weekend. I pitched yeast on 8/14/2016 around 7pm at around 75 degrees. Over night it got down to around 55 degrees and I'm really not seeing any bubbles. 1 every couple of minutes. Based on this thread it seems like I should just wait and be good go, right? Don't add any more yeast?

Pitching warm and then cooling down 20+ degrees is like slamming the brakes on the yeast when they are struggling to get acclimated to the wort and start doing their thing. Bad practice.

For lagers, the best approach is to use the Narziss method of cooling your wort to about 45F, oxygenating, then pitching cold slurry. Allow the beer to free rise to about 50F and hold it there until you're about 75% trough fermentation. Then raise to about 60F to finish up.

 

[PGEduardo]

For lagers, the best approach is...

That's a pretty bold general statement. A lot of conventional wisdom has been and continues to be debunked. I think most agree the method he used was not ideal, but stating that there is a single best approach for every lager regardless of equipment and desired characteristics is a stretch.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

It bubbled since day 6. but bubbles in the airlock subsided two days ago, on day 9. We are now at day 11. I pulled a sample and it's down to 1.021 from 1.05. Expected fg is 1.012 so Im right at 75%. I peaked under the lid and there is a lot of krausen still floating on top. I'm thinking I might begin to raise the temp to 65 over the next three days. And let it sit at 65 for an additional 3 to clean up and finish, before I cold crash it down to 35. Does it sound too early to begin that?

I would raise the temp closer to 70-72 degrees for D-rest, 65 seems kind of low?

 

[n8huntsman]

Pitching warm and then cooling down 20+ degrees is like slamming the brakes on the yeast when they are struggling to get acclimated to the wort and start doing their thing. Bad practice.

For lagers, the best approach is to use the Narziss method of cooling your wort to about 45F, oxygenating, then pitching cold slurry. Allow the beer to free rise to about 50F and hold it there until you're about 75% trough fermentation. Then raise to about 60F to finish up.

There's always next time! I followed the directions on the yeast pack. That was my problem.

I know the bubbles don't mean much but I've read that the rest should be done as the yeast begin to slow down so I'm sure the bubbles are at least an indication of that. Hard to tell if the Krausen is falling because the plastic fermenter is translucent.

 

[n8huntsman]

I've had it at 70° for about 10 days now. Gravity is now 1.012 and it tastes and smells pretty good. I'm getting a little more optimistic that it will work out. I want to bring it down to lager temps now. I have four options to doing so.
1.) Dump trub out the bottom of the conical and lower the temp.
2.) Leave it on the the trub and lower the temp.
3.) Transfer to my keg, purge, and lower the temp of my fermentation chamber.
4.) Transfer to my keg, purge, and place it in the kegerator.

I've read that I should lager 10° colder than my fermentation temp, which would be about 42°. But.. I've also read to lager 5° colder than serving temp. My kegerator is about 37° . That would mean I should lager at 32°. I'm leaning towards option 4; kegging, purging, and putting in the kegerator.

 

[kh54s10]

This one is a train wreck. Yes you can ferment a lager when pitching way too little yeast. Yes you can save it by waiting, doing a d-rest. You can say that someone who invests in a plastic conical with a Brew-pi should have learned more with the research he has done to get to that fermentation setup. (I agree).

The lesson is to read up, learn what it really takes to brew a style correctly and have fun in this hobby.

The good news is that the beer will probably be acceptable. Will it be anywhere near as good as it should have been? I doubt it..

OP - go for option #2.. Slowly.. Ramp the temperature down a degree or two for the next couple of weeks, down to 34F. None of the other options would I do at 10 days. It is not ready for those. You have at least 3 weeks before you should be thinking of a final transfer. Even a few days until I would consider a secondary....

 

[n8huntsman]

None of the other options would I do at 10 days. It is not ready for those. You have at least 3 weeks before you should be thinking of a final transfer. Even a few days until I would consider a secondary....

To clarify, I'm 10 days into the diacectyl rest. I wanted a longer rest to help take care of the diacectyl caused by me underpitching the yeast. This beer was brewed on aug 6. I'm 22 days in total.

 

[g-star]

That's a pretty bold general statement. A lot of conventional wisdom has been and continues to be debunked. I think most agree the method he used was not ideal, but stating that there is a single best approach for every lager regardless of equipment and desired characteristics is a stretch.

It's not bold at all. It's the way the best lagers in the world have been made for at least 100 years.

Please point me to how this has been de-bunked, but don't bother if you're going to send me a link to some dude's blog who fermented one lager warm and his friends couldn't pick it out in a triangle test.

 

[jodell]

It's not bold at all. It's the way the best lagers in the world have been made for at least 100 years.

Please point me to how this has been de-bunked, but don't bother if you're going to send me a link to some dude's blog who fermented one lager warm and his friends couldn't pick it out in a triangle test.

To the average brewer who is brewing beer just for themselves, then what the hell does it matter if it's ever so slightly off?? If a guy who has a pretty good reputation and a solid exbeeriment and had multiple people test and couldn't pick it out in a triangle test, then why would that not be appropriate for a guy who is brewing for himself? Personally I have done both lagering methods, and I can't tell the difference at all.
I've read plenty of articles about solid temperature control will greatly reduce turnover time in lager with hardly if not any side effects

OP: how'd your beer turn out?

 

[n8huntsman]

It's been in the keg at 35° for about 11 days now. I don't pick up any buttery diacetyl flavors but it does taste very green still. I have had a problem with acetaldehyde in two of my first three beers but haven't tasted it in quite some time. I hope it passes with time. I'll taste again in three weeks and see what happens. Or would it be better to raise the temp, up to 75 or so to boil off the acetaldehyde, then purge the keg with C02 and repressurize?

 

[jodell]

Personally I think just wait a few weeks and see how it is. I wouldn't say I'm an expert with lagers (I've made 4 of them), but being patient with them is always better.

I just made a märzen and decided to enter it in a competition after brewday, however, I had to rush it and I honestly don't think it will score very well because it's just not old enough. Patients will always help beers and particularly with lagers.

Keep us updated I am curious to see how this goes for you