First few ounces....wet cardboard

[Steveg229]

So I made my first hazy neipa a few weeks ago based off of the several neipa recipe threads. It turned out amazing except for one thing. It was kegged about 2 1/2 weeks ago and the first few ounces of the first pour for the day taste like wet cardboard. I have always wondered what that oxidized wet cardboard tasted like and now I know.... After I drink the first couple of ounces of what I assume is in the 8' of beer line, it tastes amazing. I have kegged many beers over the last couple years and have never had this issue. The first few ounces I expect to be flat and taste "stale" but not to this extreme. The color of the beer is still a perfect hazy yellow/orange and does not taste oxidized at all, just the first pour of the day. Any thoughts??

 

[brew703]

I always pour out the first 2-3 ounces, maybe a bit more, into a cup to clear the been in the line then i pour into my serving glass.
Can't say I've ever experienced what you have from beer in the line. Maybe you have oxygen leaking into your beer line.

 

[ccous]

Yeah, I usually toss what’s in the beer line before pouring a pint. It just tastes off

 

[Brettomomyces]

Yep, stale beer in the line. I have 4 taps at home and usually have to drain pour a couple ozs off the keg I don't drink often.

 

[ListerH]

I tend to tip away the beer from the line too... I get a sherry (oxidized) taste from it that seems to be more pronounced with very hop forward beers. It always seems like a waste, but I have never overcome the “oxidation” in the beer line problem.

 

[Rev2010]

Very common issue. You are experiencing oxygen permeation in your beer lines. If it's something you want to rectify buy Accuflex Bev-Seal Ultra beer line. Just look it up on here. I switched just recently myself.

Rev.

 

[Steveg229]

That makes sense. I never even thought that could have been a possibility. I may just have to switch over.

 

[Rev2010]

That makes sense. I never even thought that could have been a possibility. I may just have to switch over.

Yeah one wouldn't tend to think the lines could be oxygen permeable but yep, they are. The Accuflex line has a PET liner that better protects against this. It also will not impart any tastes or odors on beer that sits in the line, even over great lengths of time.


Rev.

 

[ListerH]

Very common issue. You are experiencing oxygen permeation in your beer lines. If it's something you want to rectify buy Accuflex Bev-Seal Ultra beer line. Just look it up on here. I switched just recently myself.

Rev.

Thanks. I had a look at the Accuflex line and I see it's a semi rigid tubing and I'd need connectors to attach to my faucet shank. I have a 3 tap kegorator and there's limited space in the tower. Do you think with the rigidity of the tubing, I'd be able to get it attached in the limited space available? How rigid is it?

 

[Rev2010]

I have a 3 tap kegorator and there's limited space in the tower. Do you think with the rigidity of the tubing, I'd be able to get it attached in the limited space available? How rigid is it?

Absolutely you would. I installed it directly onto the barbs for my 2-tap kegerator and I used to own a 3-tap in the past and I can say you can definitely do all three lines with Accuflex in the tower. Below is the thread where I upgraded from EJ UltraBarrier Silver lines to Accuflex. For the tower barbs you don't need the John Guest connectors. You actually don't "need" the John Guest fittings for the 1/4" quick disconnects either, they just make installation sooo much easier on the larger barb. The tower barbs are 3/16" and I found it fairly easy using boiling water to get them on the barbs. There's plenty of threads detailing various ways to do it. I just heated up both the barb (so it doesn't cool the tubing when applying) and the tubing in boiling water for about 30 seconds then quickly worked the tubing onto the barb. You will need gloves to protect your skin from possibly burning yourself. The tubing is rigid and is really frustrating to work with for the first time, but once it's installed you're done and there's no more frustration. I've read you can coil it up somewhere around 1 foot across maximum loops. I coiled mine a little looser just for quickness but might tighten up the coiling a bit soon. The coiled tubing then sits on top each keg. You will need longer runs beware! Most people recommend 1.5x whatever you are happily using right now. I often do hefeweizens carbed fairly high so I just ordered 50', cut it at the 25' mark and went with that for each tap and all is perfect. The tubing is really inexpensive though so the length isn't really a big issue.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...uflex-bev-seal-ultra-lines-last-night.662535/


Rev.

 

[bleme]

I use Ultra Barrier Silver tubing and can't taste any difference in those first ounces.

 

[Rev2010]

I use Ultra Barrier Silver tubing and can't taste any difference in those first ounces.

I didn't think I did either, and on some beers it's almost not noticeable while others it is quite noticeable. I did some extensive testing however over a couple of weeks and found that while the lines itself do not impart any taste to the beer in the line that it does indeed oxidize and lose carbonation. When I had a 3-tap kegerator previously I used the same lines for two years without any issue. I had sold off all that gear when I made a move to another state and after coming back bought a 2-tap kegerator and the same exact UltraBarrier Silver lines from MoreBeer but this time experienced the flaw that others using it report.

I can't explain why I never had an issue when using the lines prior for two years, maybe something in production changed or maybe I didn't test and analyze enough... no idea. But the problem is proven to be there now. So far I've tested the Accuflex and there is absolutely *zero* difference between the beer that sits in the line and the beer that follows after. I've even tested it after beer has sat in the lines for about a week so far.


Rev.

 

[bleme]

Interesting. I've heard a lot of good things about the Bev-Seal lines but I'm worried about it being incompatible with my picnic taps, and if it ain't broke...

I think the people with the most problem are those using the standard vinyl lines though.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I think the people with the most problem are those using the standard vinyl lines though.

You'd be correct. Solid PVC line has relatively poor barrier properties compared to PET-lined tubing.
And the "Ultra Silver" proprietary solid line is only incrementally better than PVC...

Cheers!

 

[Steveg229]

So I think I figured this all out. My keezer quit working a few weeks ago, so I had to build another one. I built a new collar and stained and poly'd the inside and outside of the new collar. I let dry for a few days and then re-assembled. This whole problem started a couple weeks after I got the new keezer up and running. I realized the other day when I opened the keezer the inside still smells from the poly. This smell must have leached into the beer lines. Whatever beer sits in the lines for more than an hour or so tasted like garbage. After realizing all of this I shut the keezer off and left the lid open for a few more days to air out. I ordered and installed the accuflex bev-seal tubing last night and turned the keezer back on. I think the smell is just about gone. That line is a bit tricky to install without the fittings, but once I figured it all out with a heat gun, I had all 3- 12' lines done in about 30 minutes. Hoping all of this did the trick.

 

[mongoose33]

Thinking I was smarter than I was, I ordered and installed thin-walled beer line in my keezer. It coils easier and tighter and thus less of a rats-nest of tubing in my keezer.

Well. Guess what? Pretty permeable to oxygen apparently. First draw off a line that has been sitting is fairly gross. Clear the line and then it's fine. The biggest issue emerges when those lines sit without drawing beer for a week or two, then it's "yuck." Regular use greatly reduces the flavor degradation, but that's simply not giving it time to oxidize as much.

I'm switching over to the Bev-Seal lines, I've installed a couple, just need to finish the rest of them.