First Decoction

[Maxkling]

So Ive done quite a few AG sessions and have never needed a mash paddle. Well tomorrow I'm doing my first decoction session. Decided I need a paddle and couldn't find one at the last minute so I purchased some poplar and went to town. Its a little big but works great.

So any tips with my first decoction? Here is my plan.

13.75lbs of grain, its a bock. Mash in at 2qts per lbs at 126 shooting for 122 and rest for 30 minutes. Pull 1qt per lb of thick and heat to 158 and rest for 10 minutes then bring to boil for 30 minutes. Add back to mash and monitor til 148 then rest for 10 minutes. Pull 2 gallons of wort and heat to 161 and add back to get 158 and rest for 30 minutes. Sparge with 172 til boil volume.

How does it look?

Will post pictures tomorrow.

 

[DeafSmith]

You may find this interesting, particularly the videos linked at the bottom of the page:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Decoction_Mashing

 

[bethebrew]

So Ive done quite a few AG sessions and have never needed a mash paddle. Well tomorrow I'm doing my first decoction session. Decided I need a paddle and couldn't find one at the last minute so I purchased some poplar and went to town. Its a little big but works great.

So any tips with my first decoction? Here is my plan.

13.75lbs of grain, its a bock. Mash in at 2qts per lbs at 126 shooting for 122 and rest for 30 minutes. Pull 1qt per lb of thick and heat to 158 and rest for 10 minutes then bring to boil for 30 minutes. Add back to mash and monitor til 148 then rest for 10 minutes. Pull 2 gallons of wort and heat to 161 and add back to get 158 and rest for 30 minutes. Sparge with 172 til boil volume.

How does it look?

Will post pictures tomorrow.

That's a nice looking paddle.

 

[asterix404]

Beautiful looking paddle. Don't protean rest. I did this three times and my beer looses all carbonation after the head forms. I would consider a single or double. Lately I have been doing single step mashes (mash in at 148 pull to 162, drain and sparge). This has a great deal of success so far. I get the melanoidins and half the time, also my beer so far maintains carbonation.

The giant caveat to this is a heff. I would still do an acid rest at 113 and the infuse up to 148.

I also find using only 1.5 qt/lb works quite well. 2qt is nice but quite a lot of liquid for the MLT. My single decoction looks like:

Infuse to 148 rest 20min, pull
bring to 150 rest 10min
bring to 160 slowly (over about 10-15min) rest 10min
bring to boil as fast as possible
boil for about 10min
add back in to hit 162 rest 30min
drain, sparge.

 

[Rev2010]

I did a protein rest with my first double decocted hefeweizen and the head retention was excellent, no problems whatsoever. I brewed it up again but it won't be bottled till next weekend. But I've done tons of AG brews with a protein rest with no issues.


Rev.

 

[Maxkling]

Dough in for protein rest.

Pulled thick for decoction.

About to start boiling the decoction.

 

[Maxkling]

Missed my first rest, I was shooting for 147 and got around 144-145.

 

[asterix404]

That will still work out perfectly fine. Missing your first hit by a few degrees will not affect much of anything so excellent job!

Rev...

My head retention was actually not the problem. It was fantastic. My issue was that once the head was formed, carbonation was not present in the beer, no matter how slowly I poured. I had this on tap at 25PSI with a 15ft long hose, the head poured fine but the carbonation was almost non-existent after the pour. The body was excellent though so I have a feeling it isn't just the dexitrins but also a protean problem. Also I just completed a hells without a rest and it remains carbonated with a fine head. I am only about 5 beers in with this method and only tapped 2 but I am already seeing better results.

With such well modified malts anyway, plus a decoction mash, I wouldn't bother with a protean rest. If this was a single infusion I would add that rest but the boiling will break down all of that stuff very quickly.

 

[Rev2010]

Rev...

My head retention was actually not the problem. It was fantastic. My issue was that once the head was formed, carbonation was not present in the beer, no matter how slowly I poured.

I hear ya, but I haven't had any problems whatsoever with either the head or the carbonation in the beer with each beer I've done a protein rest with. Granted, I've done the protein rests with German and Belgian malts, not american malts such as standard 2-row where it's likely worse off to do the protein rest. Whether or not Weyermann malts or Belgian Pilsner malt is highly modified I don't know. But if they are, it hasn't negatively impacted the beers I've done it with.


Rev.

 

[Maxkling]

About to pitch yeast, its hot today and taking a long time to chill.

Any suggestions on how to hit the temperatures correctly?

I used 1qt per lb of thick mash during the decoction. The calculator said 9qts would be enough to get to my target, but even using all 13qts I was still short.

 

[bernerbrau]

About to pitch yeast, its hot today and taking a long time to chill.

Any suggestions on how to hit the temperatures correctly?

I used 1qt per lb of thick mash during the decoction. The calculator said 9qts would be enough to get to my target, but even using all 13qts I was still short.

Yeah, you really have to make sure you keep the mash temperature constant, and return the decoction to the mash while it's at full boiling temperature. It also helps to add another gallon or so of water to the decoction due to the extreme amount of boil-off you'll wind up getting.

 

[Maxkling]

Yeah, you really have to make sure you keep the mash temperature constant, and return the decoction to the mash while it's at full boiling temperature. It also helps to add another gallon or so of water to the decoction due to the extreme amount of boil-off you'll wind up getting.

Ok that makes sense, I took a while due to measuring out.

 

[cfonnes]

Did you boil the thick decoction for 30 minutes?

It seems to take me a long time to get the thick to boil, perhaps because I stir constantly so that it doesn't scorch, I am out of patience and only boil it for a few minutes.

 

[Maxkling]

Did you boil the thick decoction for 30 minutes?

It seems to take me a long time to get the thick to boil, perhaps because I stir constantly so that it doesn't scorch, I am out of patience and only boil it for a few minutes.

Yes i boiled for a full 30 mins.

 

[asterix404]

So the trick to doing good decoction mashing is to ignore all forms of measure. This is a totally back of the envelope calculation, it was formed as a back of the envelope calculation and the numbers that you are working with will always be wrong or off.

Just start pulling everything that you can pull, all of the grain that you can. Then add liquid until you can stir the mash. Don't fret about having to add more liquid if you find you can't stir it. This is sort of where the 1.5 qt/lb comes in handy. It's easier to heat up a smaller volume of liquid but you might loose a bit of the enzymes.

Personally I have found this method fully converts in no time, even with Dark Munich and Wheat malts which are notorious for their conversion power. Also remember that it is always easy to cool down but very hard to heat up. Pull as much as you can up to about 60% of the total mash volume but typically around 50% will be sufficient.

Another thing to note is that enzymes work in a spectrum. 147-152, your beta amylase is working but your alpha isn't too much and at 162, your alpha is working but your beta is not. Hitting even as low as 144 is fine but you don't want much below that as you start getting into the upper end of the protean breaking enzymes.

Boiling for 30min is interesting... I have read that boiling for an hour for dark beers or 10min for light beers is generally acceptable. I suppose boiling for 30min would be for a medium. I am waiting to see if I can tell the difference between a 10 and 30min boil. I just get tired and do it for about 10 to 15min.

 

[Rev2010]

I do mine for 10-15 as well. Has always come out awesome so I haven't seen a need to go longer, however this is only in reference to lighter beers. I haven't done a decoction yet with a dark beer. In the fall I'll do my first AG Weizenbock and will decoct that one but will probably still do the shorter boil. Thing for me is the timing, I'd imagine a longer boil would lead to a much longer mash rest at a certain step and that worries me a bit.

Rev.

 

[Maxkling]

Here she is...

Almost no carb, been bottled for 3 days, couldn't wait.

The clarity is amazing, the flavor is on par. The malt aroma is very stern, right when the beer hits your pallet you get a sweet flavor, and at the end you get a nice clean bitterness with a lingering slight chocolate taste.

Fermented til FG was hit, about 10 days, then lagered for 3 1/2 weeks.

 

[helibrewer]

I start off with the batch split 60-40. I strike the 60% (main mash) to 125F and boil the 40% for 10 minutes, then add it back to the main mash for the remaining 50 min hitting 150-152F

It is much easier with a single decoction to begin with the grain bill split since I can base the percentages on the dry grain weith and don't have to measure anything once the liquid is added.