First Brew

[KegerRaider]

Hi all! I am new to the forums and i'm sure that y'all regulars see a spike to the new posts on the beginner forum this time a year. I am no different than a lot of people and my wife got me the kit from my local Austin Homebrew for christmas. I have read a lot on here for the last couple months and tried to learn as much as possible before my first attempt at this hobby. I decided to make my first attempt, the AHS Midnight Wheat Stout. All the reading that i did, definitely made it a lot easier, but there is nothing like doing. I hit the OG of 1.049 right on the money. I got my wort in the primary 5pm on monday. I awoke at 5am on tuesday after many beer and yeast filled dreams to my airlock bubbling away. I was very excited and my wife laughed at me. haha..

I have a couple of questions. I know from reading on here that the prefered method is long primary ferment and no secondary...

Is there a too long in the primary? and why?

My recipe kit calls for 5 to 7 days in the primary, another 5 to 7 days in the secondary, then bottle for 3 weeks. I was thinking about doing 2 weeks in the primary. Then 2 weeks in the secondary. Only because i have a carboy for secondary and i want to start another batch in the primary. I saw a post from Revvy earlier stating for beginners to just stick to the recipe kits. But would my deviation here be ok? Anybody have any better suggestions than what i came up with? Is there any benefit from me adding an extra week to both the primary and secondary?

Anyways, i mainly just wanted to say hi. And thank everyone for all the great information on here. It has really helped me a lot and i really look forward to enjoying this hobby more and continuing to learn.

 

[lumpher]

3 weeks in primary is what i always advise, but in your case, to get the pipeline going, yes, 2 and 2 is fine. welcome to the addiction, and feel free to ask any questions

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

first off, welcome!

second off, now that you put the kit together, toss the instructions.
fermentation times can vary a lot, but generally speaking, a few weeks in primary is a good idea. secondary isn't necessary, but isn't a sin either, it's just a matter of preference. a longer that 3-4 week primary won't hurt your beer, but i'm guessing at three weeks, you'll be itching to get that beer into bottles or a keg. if you carbonate in bottles, let it sit at room temp for three weeks after bottling, then a couple few days in the fridge.

keep reading these forums, i've learned SO much more here than i did from reading the beginners books.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

If this is your first batch I would recommend that you follow the instructions that came with the kit.

Why on earth would you tell him to toss the instructions?

I want you to be happy with your first beer from me so if you follow the instructions I know you will be. Plus you will be drinking beer sooner if you follow the instructions.

I dont want you to change everything and then think that it is the kit that gave you different results than you expected.

Me or my staff will be there to help you, in person. If you ask 10 brewers you get 12 answers, so everyone is going to tell you something different so it will get confusing.

Make a great beer your first time and then you can throw out the instructions. I want your first one to turn out great.

Forrest

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

If this is your first batch I would recommend that you follow the instructions that came with the kit.

Why on earth would you tell him to toss the instructions?

I want you to be happy with your first beer from me so if you follow the instructions I know you will be. Plus you will be drinking beer sooner if you follow the instructions.

I dont want you to change everything and then think that it is the kit that gave you different results than you expected.

Forrest

why on earth would you recommend a 5 day primary to a new brewer?

oh, wait, you already said it, so he drinks it fast and buys another.

 

[ghank15]

First off, welcome to the addiction, the most rewarding hobby I have ever endeavored into.

You bring up many good questions.

First off, are you using a better bottle/glass carboy, or a bucket as your primary vessel? If you are using a bucket, there is a SLIGHT chance that you are more prone to infections the longer you leave the beer in there. However, no matter which fermenter you are using, you are safe for about a few months.

Secondly, secondaries are fine. Many brewers use them for all of their batches. I personally do not, because I have found that there isn't too much of a difference for basic ales. For lagers, secondaries are a necessity. Also, if you are adding anything after fermentation such as fruit or oak chips, a secondary is a very good idea. If you want to use a secondary, you can. The popular secondary method is the 123 method. One week primary, two weeks secondary, three weeks in bottles.

If you want to brew another batch sooner rather than later, so long as your sanitation methods are sound, there really is not a reason why you shouldn't secondary to make room for your next batch.

Now, onto kits...

don't use the instructions. Use these. They are much better. Kit manufacturers give you the instructions you need to make your beer decent and fast so that you buy more of their stuff. These instructions (that can also be found in a sticky atop the beginner forum) are much better.

Now, I am in no position to go against Revvy. He knows more about brewing than I probably ever will.

But what I will say is this. Kits are great for learning the process. Once you feel you have a handle on the general process, there is no reason why you shouldn't use a recipe from the database here on homebrewtalk, or even create your own.

Personally, my first batch was a kit, and every batch I have brewed since (11 and counting) has been my own creation, minus one recipe I used from the database. Creating your own recipe is pretty simple, especially with extracts. The hardest part is knowing what the ingredients will give you, and how they will affect your beer.

There is a plethora of information about all of this both on these forums and on the rest of the internet, as well as in books (by the way, read John Palmers "How to Brew" available free online and get Charlie Papazians book " the Complete Joy of Homebrewing", if you haven't done so already).

If you do decide to deviate from kits, you need to determine what style you want to brew. If you are making a concoction, you don't need to pay as much attention to what you are using, because you are doing your own thing. However, I would stick to a few styles that you really like.

You can google or download pdf's of the BJCP style guidelines, which tell you the desired flavor, aroma, ingredients, and vital statistics of a particular style. If that seems too advanced, just look up recipes in the database to determine what types/how much ingredients you need to make a beer in that style.

Getting the hang of this hobby requires some experience, and getting better requires a little bit of research, but I found the research and the trial and error to be very rewarding.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes (we've all made them). Pay attention to your sanitation practices. Repeat the process until you are comfortable, and you will be impressing friends and family members with quality homebrews in no time.

Congrats on getting into the hobby, and cheers.

 

[copyright1997]

If this is your first batch I would recommend that you follow the instructions that came with the kit.

Why on earth would you tell him to toss the instructions?

I want you to be happy with your first beer from me so if you follow the instructions I know you will be. Plus you will be drinking beer sooner if you follow the instructions.

I dont want you to change everything and then think that it is the kit that gave you different results than you expected.

Me or my staff will be there to help you, in person. If you ask 10 brewers you get 12 answers, so everyone is going to tell you something different so it will get confusing.

Make a great beer your first time and then you can throw out the instructions. I want your first one to turn out great.

Forrest

Forrest
How do you "know" that 5-7 days is correct?

Shouldn't the kit be telling him the expected final sg reading and to take hydrometer readings (perhaps after the 5-7 day guess)?

 

[Austinhomebrew]

why on earth would you recommend a 5 day primary to a new brewer?

oh, wait, you already said it, so he drinks it fast and buys another.

It is realy sad that you assume that I have an alterior motive for him following my instructions. Sad.

Just like Northern Brewer says in their instructions, once you reach terminal gravity transfer to the secondary. If you have a healthy fermentation that should happen before 5-7 days. These are common numbers.

Stone Brewery does a 4 day fermentation and a 3 day secondary and then kegs or bottles. It can be done if it is done correctly. It shouldnt take 2-3 weeks to reach the end of fermentation.

Forrest

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

It is realy sad that you assume that I have an alterior motive for him following my instructions. Sad.

Just like Northern Brewer says in their instructions, once you reach terminal gravity transfer to the secondary. If you have a healthy fermentation that should happen before 5-7 days. These are common numbers.

Stone Brewery does a 4 day fermentation and a 3 day seconday and then kegs or bottles. It can be done if it is done correctly. It shouldnt take 2-3 weeks to reach the end of fermentation.

Forrest

all kits come with faulty fermentation instructions, if you brew, i'm sure you know better than to primary 5 days. we all know those kits make GREAT beer if you ferment for proper times and at proper temps, but that the kit instructions suggest short ferment and conditioning times.... the general consensus is they do that as a business practice to sell more product. in fact, a business would be ludicrous to not try to get more income.

stone is a professional brewery, they ferment on a scale that home brewers don't, thus the 4 day primary....

tell me forrest, when/if you brew, how long do you primary your beers for? honestly, not as a salesman, but as a brewer, do you ferment your beer for 5 days?

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Leave the beer in the primary for 2 days past terminal gravity and seconday for 1-2 weeks. Bottle or keg and age for 2-3 weeks.

Forrest

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

what i think is sad is that you're willing to sacrifice the end product produced by someone who brews a AHS kit (or any other stores kit, i prefer midwest supply) and tell them that it's a good practice to ferment as short a time as possible. i'm sure many new brewers, potential AHS customers for life, are turned off after a few not so great brews made from fermenting 5 days. i mean, suggest 10-14 days, then bottle 14-21 days even, but 5-7 and 7 days in bottle? no wonder so many new brewers turn to experienced brewers on the internet to help them because their beers not right or the 'kit instructions say blah blah blah, but....'

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Leave the beer in the primary for 2 days past terminal gravity and seconday for 1-2 weeks. Bottle or keg and age for 2-3 weeks.

Forrest

i used to do that too... made decent beer, but still not nearly as good as the craft brew i love. i learned a bit by reading books and coming here and talking to more experienced brewers and have since changed my process a bit.... i now make great beer, beer that i'd drink over most craft brews. i think a new brewer is better off learning from experience rather than a vendor. you may not have an agenda, in fact, it'd be sad if you did. but telling a new brewer that your kit instructions are the be all and end all isn't the best advice i've seen on HBT. in fact, like i said, it's why many new brewers turn here confused and needing advice from guys who've been doing it awhile.

i'm gonna stop reading this thread now, cause this is a moot point and WAY off topic.

happy brewing, forrest. you may have gained a new customer tonight if the OP sticks at the hobby, but it's at the expense of another.

 

[BrewJob87]

Why does this thread keep getting more heated I LOVE BEER!

 

[Austinhomebrew]

all kits come with faulty fermentation instructions, if you brew, i'm sure you know better than to primary 5 days. we all know those kits make GREAT beer if you ferment for proper times and at proper temps, but that the kit instructions suggest short ferment and conditioning times.... the general consensus is they do that as a business practice to sell more product. in fact, a business would be ludicrous to not try to get more income.

stone is a professional brewery, they ferment on a scale that home brewers don't, thus the 4 day primary....

tell me forrest, when/if you brew, how long do you primary your beers for? honestly, not as a salesman, but as a brewer, do you ferment your beer for 5 days?

Ask anyone if you dont believe me because I wrote the instructions, the best fermentation is a fast one. If you can't reach terminal gravity in 5-7 days the fermentation is not healthy enough. Ask the Seibel Institute, ask anyone that is an authority on the matter.

Sad that you keep portraying Homebrew shop owners as people out to get you. I just want him to make great tasting, clear beer he can be proud of. One that friends wont have to ask what is that stuff on the bottom of the bottle and why is it cloudy.

I will not be processing my 30bbl brewery as fast as Stone does (4 day primary and then 3 day seconday, filter then bottle). But every microbrewery I know of, including mine does not ferment for weeks and they use a secondary.

I will ferment for 2 days past terminal gravity. Terminal gravity should be 3-5 days so 5-7 days in the 30bbl primary and then 4 days in the brite tank (secondary).

Forrest

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I will ferment for 2 days past terminal gravity. Terminal gravity should be 3-5 days so 5-7 days in the 30bbl primary and then 4 days in the brite tank (secondary).

Forrest

*shakes head* damn irish will to argue a good argument.

that's in a 30bbl brew house, we're talking buckets and water cooler jugs here.... same ballpark, different leagues. you and i both know that, my point is a beginner doesn't know the difference.
i know if my ferment is not over within several days of pitching, something went wrong. i leave it longer to bulk condition because MY beer is better for it. a new brewer doesn't have that experience behind him.
i know that a microbrew fermenting in large conicals has issues with pressure on the yeast and has to transfer off the yeast soon after FG is reached, a new brewer might not.
you and i both know that the average home brewery doesn't operate at the timeframes that a large brew house does.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

i used to do that too... made decent beer, but still not nearly as good as the craft brew i love. i learned a bit by reading books and coming here and talking to more experienced brewers and have since changed my process a bit.... i now make great beer, beer that i'd drink over most craft brews. i think a new brewer is better off learning from experience rather than a vendor. you may not have an agenda, in fact, it'd be sad if you did. but telling a new brewer that your kit instructions are the be all and end all isn't the best advice i've seen on HBT. in fact, like i said, it's why many new brewers turn here confused and needing advice from guys who've been doing it awhile.

i'm gonna stop reading this thread now, cause this is a moot point and WAY off topic.

happy brewing, forrest. you may have gained a new customer tonight if the OP sticks at the hobby, but it's at the expense of another.

You make the assumption that vendors (ones that pay $1200 a year to be here to help and offer deals on products) all have an angle they are playing and can't be trusted. You are putting words in my mouth by saying that I said my instructions are "the be all and end all". Can't a customer that I will have to troubleshoot follow the instructions once so he doesnt get confused by 10 people telling him 15 ways to brew. That is all I am asking.

The forums are littered with "it didnt turn out well. Oh and by the way I didnt follow the instructions and I threw in some 7 year old extract my brother gave me and I added a pot of coffee in the secondary. I dont think I will order that kit again." etc.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

*shakes head* damn irish will to argue a good argument.

that's in a 30bbl brew house, we're talking buckets and water cooler jugs here.... same ballpark, different leagues. you and i both know that, my point is a beginner doesn't know the difference.
i know if my ferment is not over within several days of pitching, something went wrong. i leave it longer to bulk condition because MY beer is better for it. a new brewer doesn't have that experience behind him.
i know that a microbrew fermenting in large conicals has issues with pressure on the yeast and has to transfer off the yeast soon after FG is reached, a new brewer might not.
you and i both know that the average home brewery doesn't operate at the timeframes that a large brew house does.

Ok, on my 10 gallon set up I do the same. I make sure that the yeast is super healthy and there are enough nutrients to finish the fermentation quickly. Quicker is cleaner and less off flavors. 2 extra days so a majority of the yeast has fallen out. Secondary for a week and tertiery for another week if needed. Professional looking beer in the bottle and glass. No chunky cloudy beer.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

The forums are littered with "it didnt turn out well. Oh and by the way I didnt follow the instructions and I threw in some 7 year old extract my brother gave me and I added a pot of coffee in the secondary. I dont think I will order that kit again." etc.

Forrest

that's a silly example.... not that it doesn't happen, but that's a stretch. telling a guy to ferment longer isn't going to ruin anyones beer.

as far as me assuming an agenda, aren't you backing that assumption up with this debate? i mean, really, we both know what is and isn't good practice in the home brewery.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Ok, on my 10 gallon set up I do the same. I make sure that the yeast is super healthy and there are enough nutrients to finish the fermentation quickly. Quicker is cleaner and less off flavors. 2 extra days so a majority of the yeast has fallen out. Secondary for a week and tertiery for another week if needed. Professional looking beer in the bottle and glass. No chunky cloudy beer.

yeah, i get that too.. 2-3 weeks in primary. secondary if needed, i.e. dry hops, spice, etc. then bottle or keg. i get bright, clear, tasty beer. much better than the beer i brewed when i was doing kits and following instructions. 3-10 gal batches, doesn't matter, great beer.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

that's a silly example.... not that it doesn't happen, but that's a stretch. telling a guy to ferment longer isn't going to ruin anyones beer.

as far as me assuming an agenda, aren't you backing that assumption up with this debate? i mean, really, we both know what is and isn't good practice in the home brewery.

Fermenting is not a time. One can't ferment longer. The yeast are in charge of how long that takes. And the faster the fermentation the better. If you really want to wait, after teminal gravity, age in the secondary or keg if you dont want to secondary. Although the keg is the secondary at that point.

Not actually a silly example. 11 years of homebrew supply customer service will have some doozies. Anyone want to hear some?

 

[kevokie]

No need for a pissing contest fellas. Everyone has their own ways of doing their brews, and quite frankly if it works for them, great, if it doesn't hopefully they learn from their mistakes and make a better brew next time. I have had a few kits from a few different places and their instructions are pretty generic. Now, I have used AHS kits and their instructions are best I have seen so far. I wouldn't doubt that it makes great beer at all. Do I follow the instructions in the kits? Sort of. My biggest difference is I primary for a month. The reason, I'm to lazy to secondary and I don't have anything to secondary in at this time. I make pretty good beer I think. My point? Everyone will come up with their own process and get things figured out. That's why we are here, to help and get help to make better beer. Te best we can do is help someone figure out what is best for them. /rant

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I took a call from a man that makes peach wine once a year. This year he had something very weird happen and he was going to throw the whole batch out but his wife told him he better call first.

I asked him what he did different this time. He had added some yeast nutrient to the batch and he had never done that before.

The problem that he was having was that the wine reached terminal gravity in 3 days instead of the 2 weeks it normally takes. He was so surprised by the healthy fermentation that he thought something was really wrong so he was going to throw it away.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

No need for a pissing contest fellas. Everyone has their own ways of doing their brews, and quite frankly if it works for them, great, if it doesn't hopefully they learn from their mistakes and make a better brew next time. I have had a few kits from a few different places and their instructions are pretty generic. Now, I have used AHS kits and their instructions are best I have seen so far. I wouldn't doubt that it makes great beer at all. Do I follow the instructions in the kits? Sort of. My biggest difference is I primary for a month. The reason, I'm to lazy to secondary and I don't have anything to secondary in at this time. I make pretty good beer I think. My point? Everyone will come up with their own process and get things figured out. That's why we are here, to help and get help to make better beer. Te best we can do is help someone figure out what is best for them. /rant

PM me your address and I will send you a secondary, on me.

Forrest

 

[FastAndy]

PM me your address and I will send you a secondary, on me.

Forrest

I dont have have a mash tun.....

 

[mccumath]

I dont crush my own grain, if only I had a 3 roller Cereal Killer or a Monster Mill...

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

No need for a pissing contest fellas. Everyone has their own ways of doing their brews, and quite frankly if it works for them, great, if it doesn't hopefully they learn from their mistakes and make a better brew next time. I have had a few kits from a few different places and their instructions are pretty generic. Now, I have used AHS kits and their instructions are best I have seen so far. I wouldn't doubt that it makes great beer at all. Do I follow the instructions in the kits? Sort of. My biggest difference is I primary for a month. The reason, I'm to lazy to secondary and I don't have anything to secondary in at this time. I make pretty good beer I think. My point? Everyone will come up with their own process and get things figured out. That's why we are here, to help and get help to make better beer. Te best we can do is help someone figure out what is best for them. /rant

^this^ couldn't've said it better myself man

 

[Zak]

My first brew kit came with instructions to ferment for one week and bottle for seven to ten days. I opened my first bottle yesterday and it has a sour / bitter taste to it. I'm going to take the word of the posters here that it takes more than two to three weeks from going from brewing to drinking for the beer to be complete and give my second batch more time in the secondary and in the bottle. Time will tell if my second batch brewed up six days ago will be worth the wait. You will learn more from your own mistakes than what you learn from what you read.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

My first brew kit came with instructions to ferment for one week and bottle for seven to ten days. I opened my first bottle yesterday and it has a sour / bitter taste to it. I'm going to take the word of the posters here that it takes more than two to three weeks from going from brewing to drinking for the beer to be complete and give my second batch more time in the secondary and in the bottle. Time will tell if my second batch brewed up six days ago will be worth the wait. You will learn more from your own mistakes than what you learn from what you read.

Sorry you were told incorrect info in the instructions. Not using a secondary and drinking it that fast is clearly wrong.

Primary is for fermenting and when that is done (gravity reading) then the secondary is for clearing. Once it is clear age in the bottles or kegs. It should be a total of a month at a minimum. Sometimes it takes longer to reach terminal gravity. Take that extra time off of the end. It is easy to do a 1-1-2 or a 1-2-2.

Forrest

 

[Zak]

No worries, the beer is still better than bud. I'll take it up with the LHBS when I go there this weekend to pick up a new thermometer, bucket, and possibly new kit for an ipa.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

*giggle*

 

[KegerRaider]

Wow. I just wanna say thanks for all the responses! I think that debate is healthy and helps me to learn. Thanks for welcoming me to the forums.

I first want to make sure that i did not say that AHS recipe called for 7 days in the bottle. My recipe says 3 weeks in the bottle. And when I was there, I never got the idea that they were only trying to upsell me. I wish I remember his name, but he was very helpful and willing to listen and answer my noob questions. I will definitely be back in there. More than likely ill be there tomorrow to buy my next recipe kit. :rockin:

And i want to say, Forrest don't worry. If this beer does not turn out the greatest or even messed up, I will know for sure that it is some mistake that i made and not your recipe.

Like i said, i really appreciate all the help from everyone. All this debate has actually made me change my mind completely. I think now, I am going to follow the instructions with this brew. And do 1 week (or two days after terminal gravity) and then 1 week in the secondary. Then 3 weeks in the bottles. And when i get this one in the secondary, Ill start another recipe kit in the primary that i will leave there for the 3 to 4 weeks and see the difference myself.

 

[BrewJob87]

Good thread.. Answered a few questions of mine, thanks..

 

[kh54s10]

The 2 days past terminal gravity is the key. But, 5 days? I pitch proper starters and have fermentation start within hours and still have a healthy krausen after 7-10 days. Maybe the gravity was stable?? I'll never know because I did not disturb it for 3 weeks. I also gave up doing secondaries and my beer is as good or better than when I did secondaries.

I can see problems with new brewers taking dozens of gravity samples to make sure the terminal gravity was reached. I do not know about AHS directions but the ones that I have read elsewhere were spot on in some parts and extremely vague in others.

My first was a Northern Brewer Irish Red Ale extract kit. The directions said to chill the wort to 100 degrees as fast as possible. Add cold water to top off to 5 gallons.
Add yeast once the wort is 78 degrees or lower. Move the fermenter to a warm, dark, quiet spot until fermentation begins. I had looked at the yeasts range but didn't really get that until the next day when my temperatures were near 80 degrees. I re read the directions, realized that the temperature was too high. To NB's credit I used their online chat and got help immediately. The advise was to primary 2 weeks, secondary 2-3 weeks then bottle condition for 2-3 weeks. The beer turned out very good, but was it to style? I didn't have a basis to make that comparison.

That said, with better instructions, as far as temperature in this instance, I would not have had the problem in the first place.

Also NB's instructions are among the best that I have seen.

 

[copyright1997]

KegerRaider -
Welcome to brewing! Here's some tips I've learned over the past 6 months, when I returned to brewing after a very long hiatus:
1. A hydrometer is your friend. It is a scientific way of telling you where your batch is.
Edit: WAIT until you think it's done fermenting plus a few days before you take your first reading. (See #2 to help you do this.) The less you take the lid off the less chance of screwing up the batch from oxygen and/or bad things getting in your beer.
2. As SOON as you get your first batch out of the primary, do another one. The of the best things you can do to improve your batches is to make more and even more importantly having a over-flowing pipeline helps because then you have to let things sit because you have no kegs or bottles or whatever. When you finding yourself having to leave things in the primary longer because you have no secondaries or keeping it in the secondary longer because you have no bottles, your beers will magically improve.
3. Sanitation is critical and so much easier these days (than when I was brewing eons ago). If you don't have it, run out and buy either StarSan or Iodophor. I have both, mostly use StarSan as it is easier to see it working due to the foam (remember the foam is your friend).
4. I think the number one thing to quickly improve your batches is temperature control. Keeping the fermentation temperature UNDER CONTROL helps to improve the taste of your beer. (Also, remember that the temperature inside a primary (e.g. plastic bucket) can be considerably higher than the ambient temperature.) I have found my batches improved when I did this, and find I like to keep things at the lower end of the fermentation range.
5. I notice a lot of new brewers want to go crazy and come up with their own recipe's, or make super high ABV beers, or add all kinds of stuff to their batches. I think this is unwise (at least at first). I like to do scratch baking and rarely follow a recipe, except that I always follow the recipe (if at all possible) the FIRST time so that I have a control point, i.e. a known entity from which I can get creative (and from which I can compare whether being creative improved it or made it suck). So, I would recommend doing some kits or what I've tried to do is follow recipe's for various good commercial (craft) beers that I could buy and from which I could compare MY batch to the commercial beer. So, some of the brew's I've made include a blue moon clone, red hook esb clone, victory hop devil clone, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone, Mirror pond clone, Samuel Smith Nut Brown Ale clone.
6. If you brew a lot, you will strive to find ways to reduce cost. Some easy ways to do this:
a) Use dry yeast instead of liquid. If you are doing American Style Ale's or English Style Ales, S-05 and S-04 are fine. In fact they are easier as you can just sprinkle them onto your batch (big assumption here is that it is a medium starting gravity level, e.g. under 1.065 or so).
b) Wash/re-use yeast. You can easily go 3 generations without issue, assuming you are doing fairly frequent batches. Also, the resulting yeast cake from a batch can be used for multiple (2 to 3) next generation batches. So, one $4 packet of S-05 can generate 1*2*4*8 = 64 batches. What I tend to do is just go a couple of generations, e.g. 1*2*4 = 8 batches. 8 batches for $4 means your yeast cost is just about nothing.
c) Buy hops on sale/larger quantities. I've been able to find (on hbt) sales on hops where I paid well under $1/oz. Figure out what kinds of things you like, buy 1/2 or 1# and use a vacuum sealer to save the hops (in the freezer).

Hope this helps!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

i just wanna make an update to the new brewers here. i was just at Midwest Supply getting the grains and hops for a beer my wife's brewing this weekend and i asked a couple of the employees there a few questions about the generic instructions that come in their, and others kits. to a man, each one agreed that those instructions are VERY general and geared to the new brewer. and that learning how YOUR brewhouse produces beer is key to learning how long to primary, secondary, etc. i've also talked extensively with an employee there on several occasions about brewing process, the use of a secondary vessel, pitch rates, how we get our beer clear, etc. and we both agree that a 2+ week primary produces a better, clearer, more conditioned beer than a one week or less primary.
i'm not trying to be argumentative, forrest, i'm just trying to protect some new brewers from misinformation. you and i both know that when your process is solid, and by that i mean well practiced, you can turn a brew round VERY quickly. i've gone grain to glass in 12 days, and i know many have done it faster. but that requires an understanding most new brewers don't yet have. not to mention a kegging setup and experience with blast carbing ,other things most new brewers don't have. if you disagree with me, or if that hurts your approach here on HBT, i'm sorry. but you know as well as i do that the general consensus here on HBT is what i'm talking about. new brewers, if you want to learn more about this debate, there a million and two threads here on the forum that you can search and read. three or four years ago, this was a hot debate and many old school brewers were hard fast in the methods being recommended by our AHS vendor rep. after a lot of trial, debate and discussion, it was realized that beer benefits fro some extra time (days or weeks, not hours) on the yeast. do the experiment for yourselves, i did when i first learned of this topic, split a batch, use the same yeast, ferment half according to instruction and half the way most of us here do. then you decide which way makes better beer for YOU. cause after all, you homebrew to make beer for you, not anyone else.

 

[Zak]

...

Like i said, i really appreciate all the help from everyone. All this debate has actually made me change my mind completely. I think now, I am going to follow the instructions with this brew. And do 1 week (or two days after terminal gravity) and then 1 week in the secondary. Then 3 weeks in the bottles. And when i get this one in the secondary, Ill start another recipe kit in the primary that i will leave there for the 3 to 4 weeks and see the difference myself.

Not for nothing, I but brew what you are going to brew and ask questions later. I'll admit I'm new to brewing, but my beer has gotten way better since I've started from themistakes I've been a party to

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I will agree that 2 weeks in the primary will be clearer and more conditioned thand one week. Simply because you are fermenting and what is suposed to happen in the seconday, all in the primary. It is more conditioned because it is 2 weeks old and not one. 2 weeks in the primary is virtually the same as a week in a primary and a week in the secondary. (assuming you are able to reach terminal gravity in a week). The beer should remain in the primary until terminal gravity is reached. If it takes two weeks then two weeks in the primary it is. (it shouldnt take 2 weeks).

I will contact some experts and see what they have to say It is good to have even more opinions. I will post what they have to say.

Forrest

 

[Jay1]

Wow, I'm blown away by the different ideas regaurding fermentation times. Until reading this thread I couldn't imagine leaving it in the primary more than two weeks. I was drinking my last batch in less than two weeks and it is damn good. The batch I have going now reached terminal gravity in 5 days and went to the secondary in 7.

I think the most important thing about your first batches is to approach it very scientifically. Take tons of notes that way you can look back on what you did and what kind of effect it had. Just learn the process and have fun! I honestly don't think its as hard as people make it seem.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

We dont differ on fermentation times. The yeast determines fermentation time. We differ in how long you should leave it in the primary after fermentation is finished I say a couple days and he says a couple weeks. Many people combine the primary and secondary functions in the first vessle.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

We dont differ on fermentation times. The yeast determines fermentation time. We differ in how long you should leave it in the primary after fermentation is finished I say a couple days and he says a couple weeks. Many people combine the primary and secondary functions in the first vessle.

agreed. the yeast will tell you when the beer is finished, the rest is conditioning time to let the brew mature. the reason many of us skip the transfer to secondary is to avoid the added risk of contamination and oxidation, albeit small, the risk increases ever time you transfer. many brewers say 'why take even a small risk when the beer will clear and age the same in primary'.
when i DO use a secondary vessel (see below) it's for post fermentation additions, which can be done in primary too, i still go two weeks in primary before racking over to another vessel.

the thread called 'to secondary or not... jamil z and john palmer weigh in' is a great read on this subject with a lot of great opinions (thats what they are) on both sides of the subject.