First Brew Questions

[philmynuts]

I started my first ever brew recently and had a couple questions.

I have never done this before so I invited a buddy over to help. He has done this for years. He had a different way of doing certain things. By that I mean he strayed from the kit instructions at times. I ordered an Irish Red Ale from Northern Brewer with my brew kit. The recipe can be found here:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/IrishRedAle.pdf

The first thing he did differently was he had me do a starter after rehydrating the yeast. Everything I read beforehand either said that doing a starter with dry yeast was unnecessary or even detrimental to the yeast. But I figured he knows more about this than I do so we did it anyway. I used a stir plate and it seemed to be active after less than 24 hours so we continued with the cook.

Per the instructions I was supposed to take a gravity reading from the primary fermenter. He told me not to worry about it. He said he has never fooled with it before. So now all I have to go by is what's on the recipe sheet: 1.044.

He also had be wrap at coat around the fermenter. In less than 8 hours the bubbler was going crazy. The thermometer on the side of the fermenter was past the max of 78 degrees F. He told me this wasn't an issue so I have left the coat wrapped around it.

This morning, though, the bubbling had stopped. The water in the chambers of the airlock is now equalized and unchanging. The foam that was on top has settled out. And the temperature has dropped to 76 degrees F. All within 32 hours of beginning to bubble, the activity I can see has stopped.

Besides what I have mentioned we followed the directions in the kit. Does any of our actions sound like I have done any harm to my beer? Did we benefit at all from doing a yeast starter? Does not having an actual gravity reading mean much? Does the (what I assume would be) higher than normal fermentation temperature cause any harm? And does the fact that the bubbling has ceased and the foam settled out so soon mean anything?

Thanks in advance.

 

[JPourciau]

The only two things that would worry me are not taking an OG reading and the temperature of the fermentation.

Not having an original gravity reading means that you don't really have a way to monitor fermentation progress. Probably not a big deal in this particular incidence.

The temperature would worry me only because I have had a bad experience with too hot of a fermentation temperature before. I threw out an entire batch of Kölsch because of off flavors that I attributed to the fermentation temperature.

Having said that, don't panic. Home brewing is a remarkably forgiving process.

I don't know enough to comment on the starter with dry yeast, but I think it's pretty obvious that your batch did indeed ferment. I wouldn't worry too much about the apparent speed of fermentation. That was probably temperature induced.

Hope this helps, I'm relatively new to this hobby as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[chickypad]

On an extract batch not taking an OG shouldn't be that big of a deal. As long as your volumes are on your OG should be in range. FG on the other hand is important to monitor to ensure that fermentation is done.

I never do starters with dry yeast, and it seems particularly unnecessary for the size of that beer especially if you rehydrated. My biggest concern, though, is about that fermentation temp with that yeast. I love Notty but I always ferment it around 60-61. If you were up in the high 70's or even over 80 I think you may be at risk for some nasty off flavors. Time will tell, but I'd be worried. Also that hot it's likely just done, which is why you aren't seeing any more activity.

I'd definitely look into temp control going forward, IMO it's one of the biggest things you can do to improve your beer.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Don't do a starter with dry yeast, it just uses the nutrients up. Og with extract is pretty straightforward, if you have the right volume you have the right og (within .002 id say).

I follow hydration instructions per manufacturer. If it says hydrate at 85 I do that, if it says pitch dry then I pitch dry.

If temp was high, and you made a starter then it might have started quickly and over pitched significantly more than intended which might be the cause of quick start and peak krausen.

I'd check gravity to see where you're at.

If ferm temp is that much higher than intended, then see if you can set up a swamp cooler. It's just a container of cold water that you stick the fermentor in, and swap out ice bottles to keep it at the right temp.

 

[h22lude]

As chickypad said, OG on extract isn't necessary. You will always be close as long as you used the right volume and didn't end up with too much more or less.

Starter with dry isn't necessary either. It won't hurt it though. Rehydrating is all you need.

Your temp, definitely too high. Wrapping it wasn't necessary. You will need to research that. Ton of info on here. Ferm temp is one of the biggest things you need to worry about.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Hi Phil. I always hydrate dry yeast but the general consensus seems to be not to worry about a starter for a typical batch of ale (lagers are different) but a starter shouldn't hurt anything. The temperature you fermented at is likely to give hot alcohol flavours (non ethanol alcohol that tastes like rocket fuel). It won't ruin your beer, but it could be better at lower temperatures. It does depend on the variety of yeast though - some of the kits are deliberately matched with yeast that work well at high temperatures. I always take gravity readings and keep records, but I have two friends also into AG brewing who don't bother, and still make great beer.

 

[tooldudetool]

My advice is on the next brew, don't invite your friend. He didn't really lead you down a great road as you've already heard.. my question is, have you ever tried one of his beers? That will tell you alot about whether he knows what he's talking about or not. I have never heard of anyone wrapping a blanket around a fermenter, unless they are trying to ferment in a cold location like a basement and trying to keep the temp up. As you can see by the instruction sheet, Notty has an optimum fermentation temp of 57-70 degrees, and most people try to keep it in the low to mid sixties. Don't worry, you will make beer! And you will also learn what it tastes like when you ferment too warm (it's probably gonna be a bit hot and harsh, with some crazy fruity esters), which is something every homebrewer goes through. Brewing is a constant attempt to perfect your process, and with so many variables in a brewday, it is a challenge, which is part of what makes it so fun... the other fun part is the beer you get to drink as you learn.

The main reason to do it without your friend next time is that you need to learn to trust your gut (and the instructions!) and learn it for yourself without being taught bad habits. If you haven't, get How to Brew by Palmer and read it, and spend some hours drinking beer and surfing these forums. You will watch and taste your beer getting better and better!

 

[philmynuts]

Thanks for all the feedback. Sounds like the main concern is the fermentation temperature, which is what I was worried about as well. I noticed I didn't explain the coat exactly as it happened in my original post. The bubbling action started in less than 8 hours, without the coat. At that time the temperature was already up to 74 degrees F. It was THEN that he had me wrap the coat around the fermenter. We pitched the yeast at 78 degrees F like the recipe called for. I understand that the coat just added to the high temperature issue afterwards. But is it normal to have such high activity and temps as early as it showed? Was it because we used a starter when we didn't need to?

Chickypad- you said that it is likely done due to the high temperatures. Should I start checking gravity now to make sure? Also, if it is done this soon, how would you proceed? Leave it in primary for the recommended time or go ahead and rack to secondary?


Just a side note: my buddy seems to brew Double IPA's exclusively. Are some of the things he had me do normal practices for that type of brewing?

Thanks again for the input.

 

[philmynuts]

My advice is on the next brew, don't invite your friend. He didn't really lead you down a great road as you've already heard.. my question is, have you ever tried one of his beers? That will tell you alot about whether he knows what he's talking about or not. I have never heard of anyone wrapping a blanket around a fermenter, unless they are trying to ferment in a cold location like a basement and trying to keep the temp up. As you can see by the instruction sheet, Notty has an optimum fermentation temp of 57-70 degrees, and most people try to keep it in the low to mid sixties. Don't worry, you will make beer! And you will also learn what it tastes like when you ferment too warm (it's probably gonna be a bit hot and harsh, with some crazy fruity esters), which is something every homebrewer goes through. Brewing is a constant attempt to perfect your process, and with so many variables in a brewday, it is a challenge, which is part of what makes it so fun... the other fun part is the beer you get to drink as you learn.

The main reason to do it without your friend next time is that you need to learn to trust your gut (and the instructions!) and learn it for yourself without being taught bad habits. If you haven't, get How to Brew by Palmer and read it, and spend some hours drinking beer and surfing these forums. You will watch and taste your beer getting better and better!

I purchased How To Brew a couple weeks ago and have been reading through it and browsing forums for a while. But I was still unsure of myself. I also didn't want to come across as "the guy that knows everything because he reads the forums." He was kind enough to offer to help me so I accepted. But I will feel better after this first brew, no matter how it turns out, and will be able to do it myself next time.

And I have tasted his beers. Double IPA's as I mentioned a moment ago. They tasted great. I just wonder if some of the things he had me do were the same practices he used in brewing his beer instead of mine.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

A truckload of dry hops in double IPA's is likely to mask any 'off' flavours (to some extent). He might also be fermenting in a cooler location than you, so his fermenter jacket might be useful.

To give an idea of how much heat fermenting yeasties produce, a friend of mine is a brewer in a local microbrewery (8000L batches). The brewery is in an uninsulated tin shed where overnight temperatures regularly get down to about freezing. They STILL, even at freezing temperatures, need to cool the fermenting beer (in jacketed fermentors) when fermentation is at its peak.

 

[philmynuts]

A truckload of dry hops in double IPA's is likely to mask any 'off' flavours (to some extent). He might also be fermenting in a cooler location than you, so his fermenter jacket might be useful.

To give an idea of how much heat fermenting yeasties produce, a friend of mine is a brewer in a local microbrewery (8000L batches). The brewery is in an uninsulated tin shed where overnight temperatures regularly get down to about freezing. They STILL, even at freezing temperatures, need to cool the fermenting beer (in jacketed fermentors) when fermentation is at its peak.

WOW! Ok. We pitched the yeast at 78 degrees F as the recipe called for. Wouldn't I be better off to cool it further? To 70 degrees or so before pitching?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I haven't used that yeast (Nottingham?)
I nearly always use Safale US05 if I'm using dried yeast. I like to pitch it at 64 and keep it between 62 and 64 for at least the first week of fermentation. I've never had a stalled ferment with this yeast at that temperature. From what I've heard, Nottingham works equally as well (but my LHBS doesn't sell it).
Basically, lower temperature = less yeast derived flavours and more chance of them going to sleep (ferment stopping).

 

[philmynuts]

I had my loving wife take the coat off the fermenter while I was at work. The temperature had come down to 72 degrees F. I just got home and took a gravity reading. The sample showed 71 degrees F with the digital thermopen and it came to 1.008. I used an online converter that I googled. At that temperature the gravity is a little over 1.009. I tasted the sample before I dumped it. It definitely smells like beer. Maybe a stale beer, but beer nonetheless. It tasted flat of course, and a little bland. But no crazy weird flavors that I could tell.

Again, this is my first time, so I'm sorry I have to keep asking questions, but how does it look for my first batch?? It has been a little over 2 and a half days since we pitched the yeast. All activity that I can see has stopped. I was thinking I will give it another week and take another gravity reading. The longer I let it sit the more clean up the yeast will do, right?

Thanks again guys, you're a great help!

 

[RM-MN]

You have a good start and you have an excellent opportunity to learn about brewing. When your current beer is done fermenting and you get it bottled, start another batch of the same kind immediately but this time don't do a starter with the dry yeast, just rehydrate it and pitch. Make sure your wort is down to the low 60's when you pitch your yeast and keep the temperature low. When this batch is done, bottle it and make notes on the differences in your brewing methods. Give this second beer about 3 to 4 weeks in the bottle, then compare the 2 beers in a side to side sampling.

 

[knelson13A]

I did the same kit for my first beer, and I also fermented way too hot. I ended up with some fusels off flavors, but it was still very drinkable. As others have suggested, work on your fermentation temps from here on, and you'll be fine.