First biab stout...ro water use/mash ph question

[makisupapolice14]

Thus far I've successfully brewed 2 IPAs using full volume biab. Both times I've used 100% ro water from work and treated the full volume using gypsum and cacl (and used acid malt) using the suggestions in the brew science water primer thread. Hit my room temp mash ph both times and the beer is tasting very nice and clean, with nice hop flavor and bitterness levels after only two weeks in the keg.

I'm planning for my next batch, which is the northern brewer chocolate milk stout. See recipe here:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-ChocolateMilkStout.pdf

Using priceless biab calc and my parameters, I need about 8 gallons of mash water for this grain bill. I'm again planning to use 100% ro water from work for consistency but when I try to plug this grain bill into ez water calc http://www.ezwatercalculator.com, I'm not exactly sure what grain types to select for the rahr pale malt, fawcett pale and what color to enter for English extra dark crystal. Any thoughts or help are appreciated.

If I follow the brew science water primer thread, it says to add 4.2 g calc (1tsp)/5 gallons of soft water to dark roast beers and no acid malt (so 6.72 g cacl for 8 gallons). When I guesstimate this grain bill in ez water, with 8 gallons of 100% ro water and the above cacl addition, it estimates my room temp mash ph at 5.32.

Is this value a bit on the low end for a stout? Can someone plug my grain bill into easy water or something like brewin water to see if I'm on the right track?

Does anyone have any experience based tips on using/treating ro water for a full volume biab mash for a stout.

Thanks! Loving biab so far.
Just sad it took this long to jump in.

 

[friarsmith]

English Extra Dark is 160L Crystal. Use "Crystal"
For the UK Fawcett Pale use "Base Maris Otter"
For the Rahr Pale use "Base 2-Row"

I'm pretty sure Fawcett Pale is closer to Maris than Rahr. I plugged your recipe and numbers into Brewer's Friend water chem calculator and came up with 5.4. I usually shoot for 5.4 to 5.5 with stouts.


http://www.madalchemist.com/archives/mashing-the-perfect-sweet-stout/

 

[makisupapolice14]

^thanks a bunch. For the rahr pale do you know if it is somewhat pre acidulated, like the rahr 2 row is? 5.56 distilled mash ph for rahr 2 row vs 5.7 for normal base 2 row

 

[makisupapolice14]

I entered everything into ez water using the above and leaving the rahr at 5.56 distilled mash ph, it came out to 5.39 estimated room mash ph. Pretty damn close to Brewers friend. If I change to 8 lbs regular base 2 row (5.7 distilled mash ph) it jumps to 5.51. Either way looks like it is still acceptable for a stout.

 

[makisupapolice14]

English Extra Dark is 160L Crystal. Use "Crystal"
For the UK Fawcett Pale use "Base Maris Otter"
For the Rahr Pale use "Base 2-Row"

I'm pretty sure Fawcett Pale is closer to Maris than Rahr. I plugged your recipe and numbers into Brewer's Friend water chem calculator and came up with 5.4. I usually shoot for 5.4 to 5.5 with stouts.


http://www.madalchemist.com/archives/mashing-the-perfect-sweet-stout/

That link is an interesting read and has me second guessing my simplicity now haha. Using ro I have no sodium or sulfate at all with my proposed minimal mineral additions. Should I forge ahead as it or go down the rabbit hole? If so and thoughts on how to adjust my current plan

 

[friarsmith]

I misread the recipe from NB. Disregard my comments on the Fawcett malt. I thought it was Fawcett Pale, but it's pale chocolate in the recipe. Duh!

Use "Roasted/Toasted" for the pale chocolate. I don't know if Rahr Pale is pre-acidulated.

 

[Jimbodaman]

I just made a stout using full volume BIAB. My first time doing full volume BIAB normally I use my 3 tier cooler system. I adjusted mash pH with acidulated malt (3.2oz) for 8.5 gallons of water, which brewersfriend calculated a mash pH of 5.44. I cracked open the first bottle a week ago and it's fantastic, I was worried I would taste the acid malt but I don't.

Long story short you could add 1-2% acid malt and it would turn out fine. My mash pH would have been fine without it but I believe the beer is better for it. Cheers

 

[Jimbodaman]

pale chocolate is usually ~ 200L I'm not sure about Fawcett's specifically

 

[friarsmith]

Take a peek in the rabbit hole. Your beer will be better. Martin's Bru'n Water guide will put you on the right track.

http://www.brews-bros.com/topic/101141-sweet-stout-water-profile/

 

[makisupapolice14]

I misread the recipe from NB. Disregard my comments on the Fawcett malt. I thought it was Fawcett Pale, but it's pale chocolate in the recipe. Duh!

Use "Roasted/Toasted" for the pale chocolate. I don't know if Rahr Pale is pre-acidulated.

Haha I was going to ask that actually haha

 

[makisupapolice14]

I just made a stout using full volume BIAB. My first time doing full volume BIAB normally I use my 3 tier cooler system. I adjusted mash pH with acidulated malt (3.2oz) for 8.5 gallons of water, which brewersfriend calculated a mash pH of 5.44. I cracked open the first bottle a week ago and it's fantastic, I was worried I would taste the acid malt but I don't.

Long story short you could add 1-2% acid malt and it would turn out fine. My mash pH would have been fine without it but I believe the beer is better for it. Cheers

With a stout you want to skip acid malt per the water primer because the roasted grains, if mashed, will drive down the ph. This wasn't a problem for my first 2 biab recipes, which were IPAs and contained simple grain bills with no roasted malts (and 1 % acid malt did, indeed, help drive down ph)

 

[makisupapolice14]

Take a peek in the rabbit hole. Your beer will be better. Martin's Bru'n Water guide will put you on the right track.

http://www.brews-bros.com/topic/101141-sweet-stout-water-profile/

Based on martin and the other article, do you think it makes sense in addition to my 6.72 g cacl to add 5 g of baking soda and 2 g of gypsum to my mash water. This brings my mash ph to 5.49 (assuming rahr is 5.56) or 5.6 (if traditional base malt values apply). The resulting ion profile is:
Ca 75
Mg 0
Na 45
Cl 107
Sulfate 37 (will this clash with all the roasted grains?)
Chloride/sulfate 3:1 (jives with first article, but cl/so4 values I have are lower than suggested)

 

[makisupapolice14]

Bump for any additional responses. Hoping to brew this one soon! Just kegged my second biab last night. The first batch is tasting great and the keg is almost gone unfortunately

 

[oujens]

Based on martin and the other article, do you think it makes sense in addition to my 6.72 g cacl to add 5 g of baking soda and 2 g of gypsum to my mash water. This brings my mash ph to 5.49 (assuming rahr is 5.56) or 5.6 (if traditional base malt values apply). The resulting ion profile is:
Ca 75
Mg 0
Na 45
Cl 107
Sulfate 37 (will this clash with all the roasted grains?)
Chloride/sulfate 3:1 (jives with first article, but cl/so4 values I have are lower than suggested)

Keep in mind you do not need to add all your salts to the mash. Your CaCl and gypsum would lower the pH, and then your baking soda would increase it. If the goal is to raise mash pH, add the baking soda to raise pH in the mash and then add the rest of your salts (if you need any) to the brew kettle. Take a look at pH without the salts/acid additions and then determine if you need to raise/lower pH and make the necessary adjustment to get there.

The expert advice I have read on these forums advise you to add alkalinity only if you verify it is needed to avoid too high of a mash pH. You would start your mash, record your mash pH and then adjust as necessary. I brewed a Porter a while back which the mash pH was under the predicted value, so I added some baking soda to bring it back up. I will know ahead of time to make that adjustment to my water the next time I brew.

Hope that helps.

 

[makisupapolice14]

Thanks for the help guys finally hoping to brew this this weekend. My ph has been pretty close to predicted values for my first two hoppy beers.

Does my suggested profile in my last post make sense for a sweet stout? Thanks again