First BIAB Recipe, Need opinions and help!

[Chrispy92]

Hey Guys so i'm attempting my first BIAB and have purchased a bunch of grain and have been trolling around learning as much as possible. Basically this is where I need you guys to help me out an make sure this sounds ok!

Going for a flavorful dark ale, something along the lines of a White Rabbit. I have appropriated a recipe to this:

BATCH SIZE: 11L (2.9g)
From Brewers Friend Calculator
Estimated OG 1.063
Estimated FG 1.016
Estimated IBU: 35.39
Estimated ABV: 6.22%

Grain
1: 1.50kg Marris Otter pale 50.8%
2: 0.50kg Pale 2-row 16.9%
3: 0.35kg Chocolate malt 11.9%
4: 0.25kg Cara malt 8.5%
5: 0.15kg Dark Crystal 5.1%
6: 0.20kg Dark DME 6.8%

Hops
7: 15g (.5oz) Cluster @60min
8: 10g (.4oz) Hersbrucker @15min
9: 5g (.2oz)Amarillo @15min
10: 7g (.2oz) Cascade @ 5min
11: 15g (.5oz)Cascade DRY HOP


Want to do a 60min mash but my question is at what temperature!? Do I need to do a mash out for 20mins at a higher temperature?

-Do my grain percentages look ok? anything I should switch around? I have no idea really what each grain will do for the flavor profile!

- If I am going to make an 11 Liter batch (2.9 gallons) what should my pre-boil volume be? Is this the same volume I start with when mashing the grains?

Lastly do my hop additions look ok? I love hops so not sure if I should up them? or think this will give a good robust flavor?

Appreciate any help!
Cheers
Chris

 

[sillbeer]

I've learned that it's really hard to dork up an all grain beer. I follow pretty standard recipes and haven't deviated much from them. I've been high and low on my water and still turned out good. You can mash at 152 or 158 and still have a good beer. You can do your mash out at 162 for 10 minutes or 20 minutes and still be ok. The most import thing is sanitization.

 

[RM-MN]

Hey Guys so i'm attempting my first BIAB and have purchased a bunch of grain and have been trolling around learning as much as possible. Basically this is where I need you guys to help me out an make sure this sounds ok!

Going for a flavorful dark ale, something along the lines of a White Rabbit. I have appropriated a recipe to this:

BATCH SIZE: 11L (2.9g)
From Brewers Friend Calculator
Estimated OG 1.063
Estimated FG 1.016
Estimated IBU: 35.39
Estimated ABV: 6.22%

Grain
1: 1.50kg Marris Otter pale 50.8%
2: 0.50kg Pale 2-row 16.9%
3: 0.35kg Chocolate malt 11.9%
4: 0.25kg Cara malt 8.5%
5: 0.15kg Dark Crystal 5.1%
6: 0.20kg Dark DME 6.8%

Hops
7: 15g (.5oz) Cluster @60min
8: 10g (.4oz) Hersbrucker @15min
9: 5g (.2oz)Amarillo @15min
10: 7g (.2oz) Cascade @ 5min
11: 15g (.5oz)Cascade DRY HOP


Want to do a 60min mash but my question is at what temperature!? Do I need to do a mash out for 20mins at a higher temperature?

-Do my grain percentages look ok? anything I should switch around? I have no idea really what each grain will do for the flavor profile!

- If I am going to make an 11 Liter batch (2.9 gallons) what should my pre-boil volume be? Is this the same volume I start with when mashing the grains?

Lastly do my hop additions look ok? I love hops so not sure if I should up them? or think this will give a good robust flavor?

Appreciate any help!
Cheers
Chris

Mash out isn't needed so you can avoid that step. The temperature during the mash determines which enzyme gets the advantage with beta amylase preferring the lower end temps giving a drier beer while the alpha amylase survives longer at the higher temps giving a more malty beer. I'd probably shoot for 152-154F (about 67C).

Your mash efficiency is highly influenced by time and grain crush. With a finer crush you may get by with less than 60 minutes of time and a get higher OG. As the crush gets coarser it takes more time to gelatinize the starch, convert that starch to sugar, and extract the sugar. Some of the starch may not gelatinize and/or some of the sugars may not be extracted if the crush is coarser which will lead to a lower OG.

I typically boil off 2-3 liters of water so to end up with 11 liters of wort I start with 13 to 14. Some people boil harder and in the hour long boil will boil off twice that much or more. Remember that what you boil off is water, not the sugars so if you boil off too much water you can replace it.

 

[dmtaylor]

Welcome to you, Chris.

Recipe looks good. Hop selection looks good and looks like enough but feel free to add more at the end if you really love hops. In any case, I would drink a lot of this beer.

I mash just about every beer at 150 F for 40 minutes. I've done this for 10 years now and almost 100 batches. You can go for 60 minutes but 40-45 minutes should be good enough if you are interested in saving a little bit of time. In the past I ran a lot of experiments to prove that I can't taste the difference between a few degrees of mash temperature and a few minutes of mash time. Give it a try if you're anything like I am.

No mashout is needed -- it's a complete waste of time especially for small batch brewers.

Preboil volume... well... you're likely to boil off about a gallon, so start with 4 gallons (15L) and see where that takes you. Keep in mind that the grains will soak up roughly 2.5L as well, so the total amount of water you need to start with should be closer to 17L.

I agree that a good quality crush is necessary to get the results that you expect. If you let your homebrew shop do this for you, expect them to crush it poorly and thus reduce your efficiency. If that's the case, you might want to add even more DME or an extra 1-2 kg malt just to ensure you hit the OG that you want. With experience you'll learn your efficiency and become more predictable. Ultimately you will want to invest in your own grain mill so that you have control over the crush and thus your efficiency.

Good luck!

 

[BeardedBrews]

Using Brewer's Friend is a great place to start. On the Recipe Tools button you can get the "Quick Water Requirements" for your batch assuming that you've selected the "BIAB" method.

As far as the recipe goes, 12% chocolate malt is going to drive your flavor profile. If that's the flavor you're aiming for, then you're good

My belief is that taking good measurements and notes during your brew is FAR more important than spending hours planning it before hand.

1. Times - A kitchen timer is great
2. Temperature - A nice digital thermometer is key, you don't have to drop $100, but you want something with a quick read time.
3. Volume - If you don't have volume marks in your kettle, grab something that you can mark (a long SS spoon works) and pour water 2L at a time into your kettle to mark up the stick.
4. Gravity - You don't have to have a hydrometer to make good beer, but it is very hard to make changes or tweaks in a recipe or process if you don't have one.
5. Tons of Notes - Write down everything!


1:45pm Added 17.5L water to the kettle and started the stove, water at 12c
2:05pm Water at 51c
2:15pm Water at 69c turned off stove and added grain. After stirring mash everything was at 65c. Almost overflowed pot. Put on lid and wrapped in insulation.
2:35pm Stirred mash, measured at 64c, starting to smell great
2:55pm Stirred mash, measured at 63c
3:10pm Mash done, spilled sticky wort everywhere in the kitchen trying to lift the bag. Next time get help. Squeezed the bag, left with 14L in the kettle, started stove again.
3:25pm Wort boiled over, huge sticky mess again, wife is going to kill me for sure.
3:40pm Added hops
.......
.......
9:45pm Finally done cleaning up, 10L in carboy, added yeast and going to bed.
8:00am Woke up and house smelled like beer. Checked closet and carboy had exploded everywhere. Wife's coat ruined. Shoes full of beer. Sleeping outside forever.
.....
.....
.....
2 weeks later
9:15am Transferred to bottling bucket, forgot to add priming sugar, what to do???!?
9:30am Added priming sugar, hope it works
1:25pm Finally finished bottling, only got 8 bottles, spilled a BUNCH, capper fell over.
.....
.....
2 weeks later
5:00pm First beer out of the fridge. OMG BEST BEER EVER!!! EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED!
.....
.....
1 day later
11:15am Just spent $1,800 at Northern Brewer.

 

[Chrispy92]

I had a good laugh at that BeardedBrews!! The equipment list was helpful, will get myself a magic measuring spoon sorted asap! I can see that being quite useful...

Thanks for the info on crush and efficiency RM-MN and Dave. I have yet to see how well crushed the grain is, it is coming directly from an online country store so not sure how well they will mill it. This may seem like a silly question, but without a mill is there another way to crush the grains a bit more (probably a bit labor intensive but what about using a stone mortar and pestle?) Otherwise I might go with an increase in DME as suggested. Either way I can't wait to start and I guess practice will make perfect, which means more beer right?...not mad about that!

You guys are all legends, thank you for the info I am feeling much much better about this now.... Ready to tackle it and get the filled with the aromas of hops and malt mmmm.

Will let you know how it goes!

 

[dmtaylor]

You can "crush" the grains a bit more using a blender about 1 cup at a time, pulsing for about 10 seconds per cup. It is tedious but it works.

 

[TexasWine]

and I guess practice will make perfect, which means more beer right?...not mad about that!

Just remember, practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes PERMANENT.

 

[Gavin C]

Hey Guys so i'm attempting my first BIAB and have purchased a bunch of grain and have been trolling around learning as much as possible. Basically this is where I need you guys to help me out an make sure this sounds ok!

Going for a flavorful dark ale, ..
6: 0.20kg Dark DME 6.8%

...

I'd forget about a partial mash and go AG. It will simplify things for you.

I've never understood the appeal of partial mash but to each their own. Seems like all the added fun of AG while giving up the control of the final product to an extent.

I'd sub that 200g of DME for more base malt.

I'd mash toward the cooler range (150F) given the percentage of specialty grains you're using.

Best of luck.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I've never understood the appeal of partial mash .

I agree, I think partial mash gained a foothold back in the early days of home brewing when everyone was using a tiny kettle, extract, and topping up the fermenter with water.

So I guess the equipment limited devised a way to incorporate some base grain into the process.

I'm with you, PM seems like more dancing around than AG with added kettle additions.

Full volume BIAB came along 15-20 years after PM....

 

[dmtaylor]

Partial mash can help folks get their feet wet and decide whether they want to go to all-grain or not. I think after they see how easy it is to mash, they'll usually go to all-grain. That's what happened to me a long time ago. Interestingly, when I started with all-grain, I didn't have any of the right equipment so I "invented" something similar to BIAB without even ever hearing of what that was at the time -- it pre-dated the advent of widespread BIAB. I mashed and sparged in a cooler in a bag, basically using the bag as the means to filter out the wort instead of a Bazooka which I bought shortly after, and then was able to skip the bag. Nowadays I do BIAB almost exclusively because it's so dang easy for small batches.

The bottom line is that there is no right or wrong way to brew, and for anyone to infer that one way is the right way or wrong way would be ludicrous because we can all make great beer by probably 100 different methods.

 

[applescrap]

99 ways to skin a cat and 93 of them work! Congratulations on embarking into the wonderful world of biab brewing. Hope your day goes well. My tip, have a towel over your shoulder just in case of spills.

 

[Gavin C]

..

The bottom line is that there is no right or wrong way to brew, ..

I never suggested using DME is wrong.

The OP requested members offer their suggestions. My suggestion was to simplify his/her brewday with the added bonus of more control via the omission of DME. I believe it to be valid advice.

There are a myriad of right ways to brew. The number of wrong ways to brews is similarly numerous. The OP's plan does not qualify as a member of the latter subset regardless of their inclusion or omission of DME. It matters not a jot.

 

[Chrispy92]

Interesting little discussion we've got here. I appreciate all the thoughts... It's quite funny though as this BIAB brew will be only my third attempt at brewing beer: my first was an extract with some steeped hops, second was a partial mash which I think really allowed me to see that doing all grain brews was a serious possibility and not out of my league. Both first brews were OK and I'm sure I could work with the recipes. However the number of different options and ways to manipulate the recipe to produce a seemingly endless number of different beers is really the appeal Of all grain for me.

I also didn't realise adding the DME would place this brew in a "partial mash" category, I was just thinking it may help boost the gravity/ abv if my efficiency is rubbish. But as some have suggested I think I will add a bit more base malt to this recipe and take my pre-boil Gravity: if my efficiency is still crap and gravity low even with bumped up base malt I may still add the DME anyway.

I'll post my numbers and what goes on when I attempt this in a couple of days!

Cheers everyone.

 

[atcsat]

Want to do a 60min mash but my question is at what temperature!? Do I need to do a mash out for 20mins at a higher temperature?

-Do my grain percentages look ok? anything I should switch around? I have no idea really what each grain will do for the flavor profile!

- If I am going to make an 11 Liter batch (2.9 gallons) what should my pre-boil volume be? Is this the same volume I start with when mashing the grains?

Chris

Looks like you've done your homework already! My two cents: Not familiar with White Rabbit, but from what I read/guessed here it has a light to medium body.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/20689/51547/

Since you have enough dark/flavor/specialty malts, mash temp should be around 152 or less, mash out not needed (and I second the notion to replace the DME, even if only to simplify things).

Pre-boil volume is trickier because of type system/temp/altitude, and takes a few runs on your system to get accurate. Your numbers on my set-up would be around 14.3L pre-boil I think.

Can't wait to hear how it turns out!

 

[Chrispy92]

Hey guys so my grains arrived today, to me they look pretty well crushed with most all husks having been cracked. But I know nothing! I'll upload some pics if you guys can tell me if you think it looks OK to get a decent efficiency? Otherwise I will do them through a blender one cup at a time!

Cheers

 

[Chrispy92]

The dark crystal

 

[RM-MN]

Compare your crushed grains to mine.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/p1070971-62856.html

 

[dmtaylor]

Hey guys so my grains arrived today, to me they look pretty well crushed with most all husks having been cracked. But I know nothing! I'll upload some pics if you guys can tell me if you think it looks OK to get a decent efficiency? Otherwise I will do them through a blender one cup at a time!

Cheers

This looks like a poor crush. The second picture is especially poor -- might not have been crushed at all! Expect low efficiency of about 50% unless you do the blender. Yes I'm dead serious.

 

[Chrispy92]

Well.... I got a bit antsy and brewed this up before you guys replied.

All in all I think it was successful! I hit my OG spot on according to brewers friend!

Quick questions though, I have been trying to cool my wort down, was able to get it to 40C and decided to dump it into the primary and leave it overnight to cool down further before adding the yeast, will this be ok!? I just smell infections haha... although I know RDWHAHB but just want to make sure. Can I just shake the hell out of it in the morning to oxygenate then pitch??

 

[Sparge]

Yes, that will be fine. I use no-chill method. As soon as my boil is over, I sanitize the kettle top, put it on and let it cool over night. It saves me time and there is less equipment to clean. Congrats on your first all grain!

 

[Chrispy92]

Heres my process, any criticism welcome!... It was a bit stressful at times and mistakes were made but hopefully it comes out drinkable.

- 17L water heated to strike temp of 69C
- Grains in *Facepalm* volume displacement meant I hit the brim of my 19L pot and couldnt fit in 150g of malt...could have been worse though. Hit the mash temp nicely of 66C
- Checked at 20mins in and temp had dropped to 64C, heated a bit with stove and added a small amount of boiling water.
- At 60min opened up and checked temp, had a freak out...at 67-69. Who knows why or what or when so I decided to RDWAHAHB. Hopefully if this was an accurate temp it wasnt sitting at it for too long. I think I need to invest in a better thermometer.
-Pulled and drained bag to get a total preboil volume of 14.75L
- Brought to a boil, didnt get an agressive hot break... did something go wrong or is it sometimes normal that the hot break is not super vigorous?
- Hops etc all added as per the hop schedule, as well as half a defloc tab at 15mins
- Total Volume after 60min boil hit bang on 12L
- Flameout and a long battle trying to cool it down... followed by acceptance of failure.

Also realised my hydrometer only goes up to 1040...not useful for a bigger beer like this! Luckily at a higher temp it sits higher and I used brewersfriend hydrometer temp calculator to figure out:
1.042 @69C =
OG: 1.062

 

[Chrispy92]

Compare your crushed grains to mine.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/p1070971-62856.html

This looks like a poor crush. The second picture is especially poor -- might not have been crushed at all! Expect low efficiency of about 50% unless you do the blender. Yes I'm dead serious.

Thanks for the heads up I had no idea the grains should be that crushed! I will definitely go the blender route next time to be sure. Even though it seems like I hit my numbers I would like to maximize my efficiency and make sure things are consistent.

 

[dmtaylor]

If you hit your OG goal then maybe the crush and your process was good enough after all. Cool.

 

[applescrap]

Right on, Chrispy. Well documented. I am predicting good things

 

[RM-MN]

Heres my process, any criticism welcome!... It was a bit stressful at times and mistakes were made but hopefully it comes out drinkable.

- 17L water heated to strike temp of 69C
- Grains in *Facepalm* volume displacement meant I hit the brim of my 19L pot and couldnt fit in 150g of malt...could have been worse though. Hit the mash temp nicely of 66C
- Checked at 20mins in and temp had dropped to 64C, heated a bit with stove and added a small amount of boiling water.
- At 60min opened up and checked temp, had a freak out...at 67-69. Who knows why or what or when so I decided to RDWAHAHB. Hopefully if this was an accurate temp it wasnt sitting at it for too long. I think I need to invest in a better thermometer.
-Pulled and drained bag to get a total preboil volume of 14.75L
- Brought to a boil, didnt get an agressive hot break... did something go wrong or is it sometimes normal that the hot break is not super vigorous?
- Hops etc all added as per the hop schedule, as well as half a defloc tab at 15mins
- Total Volume after 60min boil hit bang on 12L
- Flameout and a long battle trying to cool it down... followed by acceptance of failure.

Also realised my hydrometer only goes up to 1040...not useful for a bigger beer like this! Luckily at a higher temp it sits higher and I used brewersfriend hydrometer temp calculator to figure out:
1.042 @69C =
OG: 1.062

When you added heat at the bottom and boiling water, unless you were stirring constantly your mash was hotter at the bottom and it took time for that temp to normalize.

With the fine crush that I showed, my efficiency was way higher than the recipes were written for so I ended up with an OG of 1.070 instead of the 1.050 expected a couple times before I learned to adjust the recipe to the efficiency I was getting. If you get that fine of a crush, you will need to adjust the amount of grains or suffer through a beer with more alcohol than expected.

 

[atcsat]

You have learned the same lessons that most of us have! Congratulations!!! Prediction is good beer! I've had many failures (lessons) so I have fun naming that brew by what happened during the process: the last time I broke my hydrometer, named it "Clumsy Cream Ale," and when my dry hop bag floated on top instead of sinking in fermenter named it "Brutal Bitter fALE."

So a couple things to think about if you want. Instead of full volume mash that gets you to the brim of your pot (or over it), save 1/4 to 1/3 of water (heated to 77C) for quick sparge and find a way to pour thru the bag over the kettle after the mash. Yes, it's an extra step, but big brews in little kettles might need it (and this may extract a little bit more sugars). I use a slotted pizza pan on top of my kettle and a bucket with drilled holes to hold the bag while I sparge. I am able to do 21L batches in 31L kettle this way.

What was your chill method? My guess is ice bath in sink? If this is what you will continue to use, try freezing water balloons (as many as you can) to add to your ice bath (and remove the balloons from the ice balls). I get these cheap from our Dollar store.

Last time I overheated the mash, about same as you did, It turned out awesome. I turned the burner on low at 25 minutes, got busy with something else and forgot. It was 168F when I remembered. It makes me think that I should include that step next time I make that recipe!

Can't wait to hear how yours turns out, good luck!

 

[Chrispy92]

You have learned the same lessons that most of us have! Congratulations!!! Prediction is good beer! I've had many failures (lessons) so I have fun naming that brew by what happened during the process: the last time I broke my hydrometer, named it "Clumsy Cream Ale," and when my dry hop bag floated on top instead of sinking in fermenter named it "Brutal Bitter fALE."

So a couple things to think about if you want. Instead of full volume mash that gets you to the brim of your pot (or over it), save 1/4 to 1/3 of water (heated to 77C) for quick sparge and find a way to pour thru the bag over the kettle after the mash. Yes, it's an extra step, but big brews in little kettles might need it (and this may extract a little bit more sugars). I use a slotted pizza pan on top of my kettle and a bucket with drilled holes to hold the bag while I sparge. I am able to do 21L batches in 31L kettle this way.

What was your chill method? My guess is ice bath in sink? If this is what you will continue to use, try freezing water balloons (as many as you can) to add to your ice bath (and remove the balloons from the ice balls). I get these cheap from our Dollar store.

Last time I overheated the mash, about same as you did, It turned out awesome. I turned the burner on low at 25 minutes, got busy with something else and forgot. It was 168F when I remembered. It makes me think that I should include that step next time I make that recipe!

Can't wait to hear how yours turns out, good luck!

I like the thought of the balloons, I did use the sink and it way too small. So I'll have to use the bath next time or I may even go with an overnight rest to room temp and pitch in the morning... Seems to have worked well with this batch. Just dry hopped today, Gravity at 1.019! Few more days hopefully it will drop down and I can bottle this delicious brew mmm

Appreciate all the knowledge. Will be brewing again on bottling day and will hopefully refine my methods this time 👌🏼

 

[Chrispy92]

When you added heat at the bottom and boiling water, unless you were stirring constantly your mash was hotter at the bottom and it took time for that temp to normalize.

With the fine crush that I showed, my efficiency was way higher than the recipes were written for so I ended up with an OG of 1.070 instead of the 1.050 expected a couple times before I learned to adjust the recipe to the efficiency I was getting. If you get that fine of a crush, you will need to adjust the amount of grains or suffer through a beer with more alcohol than expected.

Will take that into account next time and make sure I stir when I heat!

I will go with the blender method for brew 2 and definitely see what happens with my efficiency. Planning on an Amber ale with mosaic hops! Can't wait!

 

[jjackel53]

I've done about 22 batches of biab and I do a 90 minute mash with a finer crushed grain. Then I mash out at 168 for about 10 minutes . This has been my best success so far.. Have fun !!