First BIAB attempt

[Matthias]

Yesterday I had my first attempt at a biab. It seems like a fun way to get into all grain. Unfortunately I can only manage a 1 gallon batch with my current gear. But on the bright side, grain for one gallon doesn't cost much and its a great way to make sure I want to go this route.

So I shrunk down the bee haus pale ale from the recipe section of the forums to 1/5 the size. For grains I ended up with this:

1.6# two row
0.4# us vienna
0.1# crystal malt

The original recipe called out an OG of 1.049 at a 75% efficiency with my shrunk down recipe I got a 1.042 OG which according to my free brewing app puts me at a 55% efficiency. I am not worried about that much of a difference in OG, it will still be beer and I can't expect perfection on my first attempt, but I thought I would look for some tips.

I used a 2.5 gallon (approx) boil. For the mash I had a bit over 2 gallons of water. I used a grain bag from the lhbs to hold the grains, but next time I think I am going to try a paint strainer bag, the grain bag seemed to hold everything too tightly together. Do people reuse the strainer bags or is it a single shot item?

For the sparge, I used a cold dunk method with about a half gallon of water, then squeezed the crap out of it.

I then boiled for 60 minutes, used a little Irish moss(first time, interesting stuff) and transferred it to the fermenter, added some yeast, threw on a big ol blow off hose, and stuck it in the ferminting chamber.

So how would I get closer to the original recipes OG? Do I increase the grain bill to compensate for my crap efficiency until I get the biqb thing down and increase efficiency? And what do I need to do to increase that?

Tips appreciated!

 

[Justdrumin]

Yesterday I had my first attempt at a biab. It seems like a fun way to get into all grain. Unfortunately I can only manage a 1 gallon batch with my current gear. But on the bright side, grain for one gallon doesn't cost much and its a great way to make sure I want to go this route.

So I shrunk down the bee haus pale ale from the recipe section of the forums to 1/5 the size. For grains I ended up with this:

1.6# two row
0.4# us vienna
0.1# crystal malt

The original recipe called out an OG of 1.049 at a 75% efficiency with my shrunk down recipe I got a 1.042 OG which according to my free brewing app puts me at a 55% efficiency. I am not worried about that much of a difference in OG, it will still be beer and I can't expect perfection on my first attempt, but I thought I would look for some tips.

I used a 2.5 gallon (approx) boil. For the mash I had a bit over 2 gallons of water. I used a grain bag from the lhbs to hold the grains, but next time I think I am going to try a paint strainer bag, the grain bag seemed to hold everything too tightly together. Do people reuse the strainer bags or is it a single shot item?

For the sparge, I used a cold dunk method with about a half gallon of water, then squeezed the crap out of it.

I then boiled for 60 minutes, used a little Irish moss(first time, interesting stuff) and transferred it to the fermenter, added some yeast, threw on a big ol blow off hose, and stuck it in the ferminting chamber.

So how would I get closer to the original recipes OG? Do I increase the grain bill to compensate for my crap efficiency until I get the biqb thing down and increase efficiency? And what do I need to do to increase that?

Tips appreciated!

I am no expert, but I have been heavily reading about BIAB cuz I live in an apartment. I believe it was probably your sparge water. Most of the time I have read you sparge between 160-170 which will cool down tremendously due to the temp of the grain. Things may have been too tight in the grain bag because it was tied. Most take the bag and kind of line the pot with it putting the bag on the outside edges. If you haven't seen it yet, Deathbrewer has done a VERY fine job on a tutorial thread that will explain EVERYTHiNG! I'm not too sure about doing small batch sand how they differ, but that's what I have learned.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

 

[singybrue]

When you say grain bag do you mean the skinny stretchy muslin bag you typically use for steeping specialty grains?
What was your boil-off? How much did you end up with in the fermenter? 2.5 gallon for your starting boil may be a little too much depending on your boil-off rate.
Spend at couple of bucks on a paint strainer bag, and stir a few times during the mash.
The paint strainer bags are washable and reusable.

 

[Matthias]

I am no expert, but I have been heavily reading about BIAB cuz I live in an apartment. I believe it was probably your sparge water. Most of the time I have read you sparge between 160-170 which will cool down tremendously due to the temp of the grain. Things may have been too tight in the grain bag because it was tied. Most take the bag and kind of line the pot with it putting the bag on the outside edges. If you haven't seen it yet, Deathbrewer has done a VERY fine job on a tutorial thread that will explain EVERYTHiNG! I'm not too sure about doing small batch sand how they differ, but that's what I have learned.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

I will definitely check that out and try a hot sparge next time. Though with the grain bag it actually was open at the top and clamped to the pot so I could add the grains and stir inside, but it still squeezed the grains together for the most part

 

[buzzerj]

For my BIAB batches, I'm doing 4 gallon boils to make a 5 gallon batch. I use a big nylon bag (18" x 30") from the homebrew store. I save the spent grain for the wife to make granola. I wash out the bag and hang it on a hanger to reuse. When I finish mashing I lift the bag out of the mash pot (I use a 10 quart stainless steel pot), let it drain out as much as possible then transfer it to the boil pot for a 10 minute mash out in water with a strike temp to yield a 168-170 degree F final temp. When that's done, I lift out the bag and let it drain but I don't squeeze it so as not to get excess tannins. I add the mash wort to the boil pot and begin the boil. I'll collect any further drainings from the bag and add that back into the boil later. The concern is always what the efficiency is going to be. I use enough LME added (some at the start of the boil and most at the end of the boil) to make sure I'm hitting that OG target number. Even with that I still fall short sometimes but it's still good beer. But work at your process with succeeding batches and keep good notes on what you did and what you intend to change and you'll begin to reliably nail your OG targets. And yes increasing the quantities of your grain while keeping the proportions the same wouldn't hurt.

 

[Matthias]

When you say grain bag do you mean the skinny stretchy muslin bag you typically use for steeping specialty grains?
What was your boil-off? How much did you end up with in the fermenter? 2.5 gallon for your starting boil may be a little too much depending on your boil-off rate.
Spend at couple of bucks on a paint strainer bag, and stir a few times during the mash.
The paint strainer bags are washable and reusable.

Actually the 2.5 gallon ended up alright as far as final volume. Once I filled the fermenter with a gallon I had a small layer of wort resting on the top of break materials and whatever other goo the Irish moss caused to settle out.

I keep it at a nice rolling boil so it burned off a good gallon in the hour long boil.

 

[Matthias]

For my BIAB batches, I'm doing 4 gallon boils to make a 5 gallon batch. I use a big nylon bag (18" x 30") from the homebrew store. I save the spent grain for the wife to make granola. I wash out the bag and hang it on a hanger to reuse. When I finish mashing I lift the bag out of the mash pot (I use a 10 quart stainless steel pot), let it drain out as much as possible then transfer it to the boil pot for a 10 minute mash out in water with a strike temp to yield a 168-170 degree F final temp. When that's done, I lift out the bag and let it drain but I don't squeeze it so as not to get excess tannins. I add the mash wort to the boil pot and begin the boil. I'll collect any further drainings from the bag and add that back into the boil later. The concern is always what the efficiency is going to be. I use enough LME added (some at the start of the boil and most at the end of the boil) to make sure I'm hitting that OG target number. Even with that I still fall short sometimes but it's still good beer. But work at your process with succeeding batches and keep good notes on what you did and what you intend to change and you'll begin to reliably nail your OG targets. And yes increasing the quantities of your grain while keeping the proportions the same wouldn't hurt.

Ok. I just want to make sure I have this right.

You do your mash in a 10 quart pot, while that is mashing you get a bigger pot up to 170 for mashout. And then after draining the grain you do the mashout in the large boil pot, and then you combine both pots and proceed to boil.

Is that right? And if so, how much water are you able to get into a 10 qt pot with I'm guessing at least 10# of grain?

 

[RM-MN]

For my BIAB batches, I'm doing 4 gallon boils to make a 5 gallon batch. I use a big nylon bag (18" x 30") from the homebrew store. I save the spent grain for the wife to make granola. I wash out the bag and hang it on a hanger to reuse. When I finish mashing I lift the bag out of the mash pot (I use a 10 quart stainless steel pot), let it drain out as much as possible then transfer it to the boil pot for a 10 minute mash out in water with a strike temp to yield a 168-170 degree F final temp. When that's done, I lift out the bag and let it drain but I don't squeeze it so as not to get excess tannins. I add the mash wort to the boil pot and begin the boil. I'll collect any further drainings from the bag and add that back into the boil later. The concern is always what the efficiency is going to be. I use enough LME added (some at the start of the boil and most at the end of the boil) to make sure I'm hitting that OG target number. Even with that I still fall short sometimes but it's still good beer. But work at your process with succeeding batches and keep good notes on what you did and what you intend to change and you'll begin to reliably nail your OG targets. And yes increasing the quantities of your grain while keeping the proportions the same wouldn't hurt.

You cannot squeeze out tannins. To get tannins extracted you have to have too high of a pH in the mash or sparge. To get better efficiency, squeeze the heck out of the bag. To raise it a little more do a sparge and squeeze again.

 

[RM-MN]

Ok. I just want to make sure I have this right.

You do your mash in a 10 quart pot, while that is mashing you get a bigger pot up to 170 for mashout. And then after draining the grain you do the mashout in the large boil pot, and then you combine both pots and proceed to boil.

Is that right? And if so, how much water are you able to get into a 10 qt pot with I'm guessing at least 10# of grain?

You do not need a mashout with BIAB. Your grains come out of the water and you begin heating it while you squeeze out the last of the wort and add it. You'll have the wort at the boiling point soon and that takes the place of a mashout.

 

[Matthias]

You cannot squeeze out tannins. To get tannins extracted you have to have too high of a pH in the mash or sparge. To get better efficiency, squeeze the heck out of the bag. To raise it a little more do a sparge and squeeze again.

I thought that's what I had read about tannins as well, but new enough at this that I didn't want to argue something I didn't have experience with.

 

[buzzerj]

My grain bill is usually 4-5 lbs. for a 5 gallon batch. I use extract for the balance of the sugars.

 

[Matthias]

My grain bill is usually 4-5 lbs. for a 5 gallon batch. I use extract for the balance of the sugars.

Ahh ok. I am trying to do all grain with biab

 

[wilserbrewer]

Efficiency could suffer due to the bag being to small and not allowing a good rinse of the grain.

A coarse crush will also likely reduce efficiency.

I would guess one or both of the above were your issue regarding efficiency.

 

[Matthias]

Efficiency could suffer due to the bag being to small and not allowing a good rinse of the grain.

A coarse crush will also likely reduce efficiency.

I would guess one or both of the above were your issue regarding efficiency.

Thanks!

I will be trying a looser bag (paint strainer bag) on the next batch. I have the lhbs mill my grains, he does it for free when I buy them from him. I will have to see if he can double mill for me.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Definately go the 5Gal paint strainer bag route, and double mill the grain.

I'm also curious about your 2.5gal boil amount, I just did a 1.5gal BIAB and my evaporation calculated out at .82G/Hr with a hard rolling boil, so my inital start was 2.32Gal. You must have a wide/fat pot?

Did you cold dunk the sparge? I heated mine up to mash out temp and then dunk sparged/stirred for 10min before removing/squeezing and boiling.

 

[Matthias]

Definately go the 5Gal paint strainer bag route, and double mill the grain.

I'm also curious about your 2.5gal boil amount, I just did a 1.5gal BIAB and my evaporation calculated out at .82G/Hr with a hard rolling boil, so my inital start was 2.32Gal. You must have a wide/fat pot?

Did you cold dunk the sparge? I heated mine up to mash out temp and then dunk sparged/stirred for 10min before removing/squeezing and boiling.

I just poured cold water over it in a bowl then squeezed it. I will be doing a hot dunk next go around.

As for the volume, its probably a bit more than needed, but with the Irish moss it left only a quarter inch of clear liquid above the settled material. I also keep it at a full rolling boil. I am really not too heartbroken if I'm wasting a fifth a gallon of wort.

I will have to see how the next experiment goes, I tested and found where my oven holds 152f, so that should help, and bought the 5gal paint strainer bags.

 

[RM-MN]

I just poured cold water over it in a bowl then squeezed it. I will be doing a hot dunk next go around.

As for the volume, its probably a bit more than needed, but with the Irish moss it left only a quarter inch of clear liquid above the settled material. I also keep it at a full rolling boil. I am really not too heartbroken if I'm wasting a fifth a gallon of wort.

I will have to see how the next experiment goes, I tested and found where my oven holds 152f, so that should help, and bought the 5gal paint strainer bags.

I'll bet that you can't tell the difference in the amount of sugars you collect but you will notice that it is hotter to squeeze.

 

[Matthias]

I'll bet that you can't tell the difference in the amount of sugars you collect but you will notice that it is hotter to squeeze.

It seems hot sparge vs cold sparge is just one of those divides in the brewing world that works either way and I'm just going to have to decide which method I prefer

 

[sumbrewindude]

Really interesting on the cold sparge idea. I'm going to look into that - squeezing 170deg grain is hot, even with a coffee cup.

Not going to lie, the hot dunk is way easy if you've got two pots - the small pot goes in the oven, and 15 minutes before I'm ready to pull it I start up the sparge water on the stove top so it's at 170 when I pull the "mash" pot out of the oven. Then it's just lift, squeeze, and dunk/stir with the lid on for about 10min. Pull and back on the burner for the boil (10min later).

I did a whole chart on times so I can minimize downtime between systems. Really helps.