First Attempt: Black IPA/CDA

[henchman24]

This is my first attempt at creating a recipe. I searched around, got some ideas, and put this together. I now have a couple all grain batches under my belt, including a wheat and all have been right at the expected starting gravity or slightly higher (my efficiency batch sparging has been 72-75% on every batch). So I am feeling somewhat confident in my brewing abilities... now I need to gain some in my recipe making abilities (possible I have none :cross. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

5 gallon Black IPA/CDA

13 lbs 2 row
1.25 lbs Crystal
1.25 lbs Cara-Pils
.5 lbs Chocolate Malt
.75 lbs Chocolate Wheat
.5 lbs Carafa III

.5 oz Chinook FWH
.5 oz Chinook 60 min
.75 oz Simcoe 30 min
.75 oz Amarillo 30 min
.5 oz Simcoe 20 min
.5 oz Amarillo 20 min
.5 oz Simcoe 10 min
.5 oz Amarillo 10 min
1 oz Simcoe Flame out
1 oz Amarillo Flame out

1,25 oz Simcoe Dry hop 7 days
1.25 oz Amarillo Dry hop 7 days
US-05 yeast

I'm wanting a big Black IPA with very high IBUs. This seems to accomplish that with:

Estimated OG: 1.087
Estimated IBUs: 94
Estimated Color: 50.8 SRM

I'm a bit worried about my hop schedule, and making it a bit too roasty or maybe even astringent. I have thought about swapping out one of the grains for some sugar to dry the beer out. Any suggestions?

 

[NathPowe]

For my taste, that grain bill would give me a lot more roasty malt flavor than I'd want for a CDA. I have one on draft right now that's great with just 2-row, rye, carafe III and a bit of crystal 60. You might consider using just the carafa III for color and a less pronounced roastiness. I've heard midnight wheat is great for this style as well, but I haven't tried it. Also, that's a LOT of crystal. I think I used .5lb in mine. I'd aim for 3-5% crystal (that includes cara-pils) as a starting place for IPA's. Cutting back the crystal will also be a big help in drying the beer out.

I'd move the 30min simcoe and amarillo additions to later in the boil so all the deliciousness doesn't get boiled off. You can make up the IBU's with a bigger bittering charge. Finally, I'd go for at 3oz of dry hops.

Just my two cents. Enjoy the brew.

Sorry for the multiple edits - missed some things on my first read.

 

[motorneuron]

Black IPAs are a somewhat tricky style. There should be a little roast flavor, but primarily, you're looking for dark color. The simplest way to achieve that is by using debittered black malt. I'd recommend not amping up the chocolate or chocolate wheat the way you have it here--it could outshine the hops. Another trick you can use is to take the dark grains and cold steep them overnight, separate from the mash, and then add that liquid to your boil with 10 minutes to go. That will significantly decrease harshness.

As to the hops themselves, 20 and 30 minutes are not sufficiently distinct to warrant doing both. And all else being equal, you probably want more aroma hops than flavor hops. So I'd take either the 20 or 30 minute additions and put them at flame-out or whirlpool (or dry hop).

1.25 lbs of "crystal" is a bit unclear. What kind of crystal? If you want the thing to be dry, I would mash low (150F or less) and cut the crystal to a half pound. 1.25 is probably a bit high even if you want a bit more sweetness, especially in combination with the carapils (which will add some of the same unfermentable dextrins that any crystal will).

I should note that I'm not really a big black IPA fan. I feel like it's often a beer that can't decide what it wants to be--roasty and dark, or hoppy? You're welcome to disagree, of course! But don't feel bad if, on your first recipe attempt, it's a little off. It's not an easy style to get right.

 

[MindenMan]

I too think you are a little roasty. I suggest downloading Brew Mate, it's free and it has a CDA style maker. I realize there are 100's of recipes and philosophies, regarding this style, but most all the old recipes have Midnight Wheat for both color and mouthfeel, so I used MW in my recipe too.

 

[henchman24]

Sorry I thought I put it in there Crystal 120L. Part of the reason I wanted to do this was to play with the Chocolate Wheat in this style beer, so I want that to stay... but I am not tied to anything else.

This is why I wanted to solicit help on this. I knew that something would be off from when I first tried to figure this out.

What about these modifications to the recipie?

So cut back the crystal to .5 lbs.

Move the hop schedule from 30-20-10-flame out to 20-10-5-flameout.

Cut back Chocolate wheat and malt both to 6 oz.

Add some sucrose to further dry it out... say 8 oz.

Mash at 150

 

[henchman24]

I too think you are a little roasty. I suggest downloading Brew Mate, it's free and it has a CDA style maker. I realize there are 100's of recipes and philosophies, regarding this style, but most all the old recipes have Midnight Wheat for both color and mouthfeel, so I used MW in my recipe too.

I will check that out. I am using Beersmith right now and have found it useful so far.

 

[motorneuron]

Yes, I think those changes all make sense, with one tiny exception. You shouldn't just add sucrose--you should sub out some of the base malt for sucrose. Sugar by itself doesn't encourage additional drying; it just ferments at nearly 100%. So adding it without reducing base malt will just up your alcohol, without reducing FG (and therefore without reducing residual sweetness).

 

[henchman24]

Yes, I think those changes all make sense, with one tiny exception. You shouldn't just add sucrose--you should sub out some of the base malt for sucrose. Sugar by itself doesn't encourage additional drying; it just ferments at nearly 100%. So adding it without reducing base malt will just up your alcohol, without reducing FG (and therefore without reducing residual sweetness).

Makes sense. I'm learning :rockin: