Firestone Walker Wookey Jack Clone Attempt

[runningfarmer]

This mothers milk. I have made this probably 10 times. I have used S-04 and switched to 1318 yeast with brun-water pale ale water. Its a little harshat first but like it blends in 4 or 5 weeks to perfect

 

[Javaslinger]

What are the benefits of a 90 minute boil (vs. a 60 min) for this recipe or perhaps the 'Black' IPA style?

 

[samandbekah]

What are the benefits of a 90 minute boil (vs. a 60 min) for this recipe or perhaps the 'Black' IPA style?

I think it's important for this brew to help you hit your target sg... Uses a lot of malt but also a ton of water so in the event you thin the mash, that extra half hour really helps out.

 

[Roady9999]

First post so here it goes. So everyone knows I am a reader not a poster. This beer is probably my 12th 5-gallon batch with 5 extract and 7 Biab all grain. My question is I hit 1.084 og and was a little concerned wlp002 wouldn't attenuate enough. So I made a big yeast starter and 6 days of fermentation I am at 1.017 and it looks like it is still going. I am already over 8% abv so should I go ahead and dry hop early? I am mostly concerned about bottle conditioning and having enough active yeast to condition within a reasonable amount of time( like 2 weeks).

 

[samandbekah]

First post so here it goes. So everyone knows I am a reader not a poster. This beer is probably my 12th 5-gallon batch with 5 extract and 7 Biab all grain. My question is I hit 1.084 og and was a little concerned wlp002 wouldn't attenuate enough. So I made a big yeast starter and 6 days of fermentation I am at 1.017 and it looks like it is still going. I am already over 8% abv so should I go ahead and dry hop early? I am mostly concerned about bottle conditioning and having enough active yeast to condition within a reasonable amount of time( like 2 weeks).

How soon do you plan to transfer? I believe the recipe actually calls for the first round of dry hopping within three days left of active fermentation (Matt from FW is an advocate of this as he thinks it yields better aromas). It actually helps because the hops will introduce a little bit of oxygen. The yeast remaining to attenuate will eat that up and you'll be left with those amazing aromas.

It's such a fun beer to make, I think the first time I made it I did the same and mine finished at 9.5%!

 

[Javaslinger]

This mothers milk. I have made this probably 10 times. I have used S-04 and switched to 1318 yeast with brun-water pale ale water. Its a little harshat first but like it blends in 4 or 5 weeks to perfect

Interesting.. I just tried mine after 2 weeks in a bottle and it is a bit harsh. Glad to hear it mellows out and blends a bit!

 

[Roady9999]

How soon do you plan to transfer? I believe the recipe actually calls for the first round of dry hopping within three days left of active fermentation (Matt from FW is an advocate of this as he thinks it yields better aromas). It actually helps because the hops will introduce a little bit of oxygen. The yeast remaining to attenuate will eat that up and you'll be left with those amazing aromas.

It's such a fun beer to make, I think the first time I made it I did the same and mine finished at 9.5%!

Maybe I read this wrong from the original corrected recipe but I interpreted 3 days of dry hopping after active fermentation. Dry hopping during active fermentation would kinda be a take away from the NEIPA style from my understanding. Specifically another poster indicated(not OP) dry hopping starts at 1.017. I feel like I read every page of this thread and biotransformation hopping was not mentioned at all. Maybe a couple of guys who have brewed this a bunch can clarify that point. I agree with you as that type of hopping yields a smoother taste. thank you for your advice about the abv as mine might approach 9% after bottling. After reading your post I went ahead and dry hopped today I still have some active fermentation going. I will remove in 3 days and add second dry hop. So another question if you bottle do you guys bottle at 10 day, 14 days or 21 days. Then I guess its a waiting game for the beer to mature.

 

[Shenanigans]

Thinking of brewing this soon. I have everything except the WLP002. Would London III 1318 be OK? I also have Mangrove Jacks M42 and US-05. Doesn't have to be an exact clone but I guess 1318 would be closest?

 

[samandbekah]

Maybe I read this wrong from the original corrected recipe but I interpreted 3 days of dry hopping after active fermentation. Dry hopping during active fermentation would kinda be a take away from the NEIPA style from my understanding. Specifically another poster indicated(not OP) dry hopping starts at 1.017. I feel like I read every page of this thread and biotransformation hopping was not mentioned at all. Maybe a couple of guys who have brewed this a bunch can clarify that point. I agree with you as that type of hopping yields a smoother taste. thank you for your advice about the abv as mine might approach 9% after bottling. After reading your post I went ahead and dry hopped today I still have some active fermentation going. I will remove in 3 days and add second dry hop. So another question if you bottle do you guys bottle at 10 day, 14 days or 21 days. Then I guess its a waiting game for the beer to mature.

How did this end up turning out for you? I missed your response but hopefully it turned out well. I've brewed this beer half a dozen times and I've missed one thing or another and it always ends up delicious.

 

[Shenanigans]

Thinking of brewing this soon. I have everything except the WLP002. Would London III 1318 be OK? I also have Mangrove Jacks M42 and US-05. Doesn't have to be an exact clone but I guess 1318 would be closest?

I didn't brew this yet but it's on the list for my next brew session in September.
I still don't have the wlp002 but I do have wlp005 British ale and London III 1318.
which one would be the better option?
I'm guessing wlp005?

Thanks

 

[govner1]

I’ve brewed this s couple of times using 1098 with great success. If you cannot get it I’d go with 1318

 

[Shenanigans]

I’ve brewed this s couple of times using 1098 with great success. If you cannot get it I’d go with 1318

OK, thanks for your recommendation.

I have an oat pale in the 3rd day of fermenting with 1318 so I'll guess I'll open 'er up tomorrow night and harvest some off the krausen.
Also have an Ommegang BPA clone on the go so will do the same with that.

 

[aaronm13]

Hi all. I've been looking fora for a good black ipa recipe for a while and I think this could be the holy grail, I'm so excited to brew this. I'm trying to get all ingredients together and can get everything except midnight wheat. Nowhere in my country sells It (Ireland) and can't get it from the uk either so trying to come up with alternatives.
I can get Weyermann Chocolate wheat. Not sure if this will be suitable as I'm worried about it giving off bitterness but will get the color.

I can get carafa Special III, so could I just double the amount of it and scrap the midnight wheat and maybe just add some regular wheat for mouthfeel.

Or third option would be replace midnight wheat with Carafa special II, which is closer in color and again add some regular wheat.

I hate not being able to get the correct ingredients so just going to have to make the best attempt at it. Would love some feedback on how to get this recipe as close as possible.

 

[samandbekah]

Hi all. I've been looking fora for a good black ipa recipe for a while and I think this could be the holy grail, I'm so excited to brew this. I'm trying to get all ingredients together and can get everything except midnight wheat. Nowhere in my country sells It (Ireland) and can't get it from the uk either so trying to come up with alternatives.
I can get Weyermann Chocolate wheat. Not sure if this will be suitable as I'm worried about it giving off bitterness but will get the color.

I can get carafa Special III, so could I just double the amount of it and scrap the midnight wheat and maybe just add some regular wheat for mouthfeel.

Or third option would be replace midnight wheat with Carafa special II, which is closer in color and again add some regular wheat.

I hate not being able to get the correct ingredients so just going to have to make the best attempt at it. Would love some feedback on how to get this recipe as close as possible.

I think you'll be fine if you substitute one of the other darker malts as you're thinking currently.

My advice would be to to just keep the same ratio for whatever you substitute the midnight for so you still get the same base. The color may be slightly lighter depending on what you can get your hands on if not as dark as the midnight.

The hops in this beer really shine too and I think that will help balance out any difference from the midnight wheat. I have brewed this multiple times and everything something's gone awry and the beer always turns out delicious.

 

[Shenanigans]

I'm from Ireland too and also have this on my too brew list. What a coincidence

Joking aside I'm just going to go for the Weyermann chocolate/roasted wheat. I don't have a real Wookie to compare it to so a slight difference won't be a problem. I would also think it would come closer than any of the carafa specials which are barley not wheat. The fact that I have 1.5 kg of it waiting to be used is another good reason to use it rather than buying more malt. Now I just have to decide what to do with the rest of my chocolate rye malt

 

[aaronm13]

Thanks to both of you for your replies. Good to know samandbekah that no matter what options I go with the beer should still come out good.

Im like you Shenanigans, I've never tried Wookie but love black ipas and had a Kinnegar Black Rye ipa recently and it was excellent, the rye takes it to the next level so this is why it's next on my brew list. Hopefully ordering the grains in the next week with a view to brewing by the end of the month.

I've never used chocolate wheat so worried about it adding additional bitterness as to me black ipas should be smooth which is why I was leaning to carafa II with a bit of additional wheat. Have you used chocolate wheat before? What is its flavor profile like?

Also going to use Pearl malt as the base as I can't get American 2 Row here. Would this be OK as the base? What are you using for you base Shenanigans?

 

[samandbekah]

@aaronm13 - another thing you can consider if you're worried about the bitterness - is mash the substitute malt you choose in cold water separately a day or two ahead of time and then add the extract back in to your regular mash come brew day. This would be similar to making cold brew coffee, you're taking the bitter/harshness out of the malt(s) and keeping the roasty darker flavors you want.

Sorry to hear you've never tried the real wookie... It's such an amazing beer I was so sad when Firestone Walker retired it!

 

[Shenanigans]

Thanks to both of you for your replies. Good to know samandbekah that no matter what options I go with the beer should still come out good.

Im like you Shenanigans, I've never tried Wookie but love black ipas and had a Kinnegar Black Rye ipa recently and it was excellent, the rye takes it to the next level so this is why it's next on my brew list. Hopefully ordering the grains in the next week with a view to brewing by the end of the month.

I've never used chocolate wheat so worried about it adding additional bitterness as to me black ipas should be smooth which is why I was leaning to carafa II with a bit of additional wheat. Have you used chocolate wheat before? What is its flavor profile like?

Also going to use Pearl malt as the base as I can't get American 2 Row here. Would this be OK as the base? What are you using for you base Shenanigans?

I know I used the chocolate wheat before because I have 500g less than I bought a few years ago.
I need to look up my old recipes in beersmith because I cant remember exactly what I used it for.
I'll be using Dingemans pale ale myself. I'm from Ireland but I live in Germany near the Dutch and Belgian borders so I buy from different online shops in Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands. I've used Best, weyermann, Castle, Schwan and Dingemans pale ale for dark beers before.
Dingemans just happens to be what I have at the moment. The English ones like pearl and MO would be fine too but are a bit more expensive over here and I think the extra flavours they impart would be lost with all the special malts. So I save them for lighter styles but if it's hat you have go for it. Pearl is probably comparably cheaper in Ireland than continental pale ale malt anyway and I think the color comes closer to American 2-row too.
I'm planning this in for if sometime around the start of November so that it's ready for Christmas

 

[Albionwood]

I've never used chocolate wheat so worried about it adding additional bitterness as to me black ipas should be smooth which is why I was leaning to carafa II with a bit of additional wheat. Have you used chocolate wheat before? What is its flavor profile like?

Jumping in because Wookey Jack was a favorite beer for me...
Midnight Wheat in my experience adds no bitterness. It's actually my favorite dark malt and I sometimes sub it for Carafa. I think you can do the reverse - substitute Carafa (the darkest you can get, as Midnight Wheat is 500L) and add some wheat malt, should get you close. If you sub Chocolate Wheat and add some Carafa for color you should be fine.

 

[aaronm13]

Thanks all for your advice.

@samandbekah: that's a great tip about cold steeping the grains. I've seem mentions of that while looking for black ipa recepies so I'll definitely look into it more.

@Shenanigans: think the Pearl malt is probably overkill but I had to buy 25kg for a Heady Topper clone I did so have around 19kg still left so will probably just use them to keep the cost down on this. Think the equivalent in Pale Malt would cost me around 14 euro so will help a bit with cost. Hoping to have this ready and in peak condition for Christmas too.

 

[Shenanigans]

Well I brewed this 10 days ago, got an OG of 1.079 and pitched WY 1098 British Ale yeast.
I took a reading on Sunday and it was already down to 1.019.
I'm going to leave it for 3 weeks in total before kegging because I brewed a Belgian blonde on the same day with WY 3787 and want to be sure it's done before I bottle it and will package everything on the same day.
I will dry hop in a few days, a week to 10 days before kegging.
I have two more beers that will be ready to package on that day too.

Can hardly wait!

 

[samandbekah]

Well I brewed this 10 days ago, got an OG of 1.079 and pitched WY 1098 British Ale yeast.
I took a reading on Sunday and it was already down to 1.019.
I'm going to leave it for 3 weeks in total before kegging because I brewed a Belgian blonde on the same day with WY 3787 and want to be sure it's done before I bottle it and will package everything on the same day.
I will dry hop in a few days, a week to 10 days before kegging.
I have two more beers that will be ready to package on that day too.

Can hardly wait!

It's the best!! I haven't brewed it in two years but I'm making this my next brew... Enjoy!

 

[samandbekah]

Brewing the Wook this weekend with a slight twist to the hops and yeast... So pumped, one of my favorite beers to make!

 

[Shenanigans]

Well I brewed this 10 days ago, got an OG of 1.079 and pitched WY 1098 British Ale yeast.
I took a reading on Sunday and it was already down to 1.019.
I'm going to leave it for 3 weeks in total before kegging because I brewed a Belgian blonde on the same day with WY 3787 and want to be sure it's done before I bottle it and will package everything on the same day.
I will dry hop in a few days, a week to 10 days before kegging.
I have two more beers that will be ready to package on that day too.

Can hardly wait!

Well mine turned out very good.

It was the first beer I packaged in a keg so I was constantly drawing off a few samples to see how the carbonation was going. I managed to finish it off with the other keg on my own within 3 weeks.

I have to learn to use smaller glasses because when pouring I always ended up filling the glass to the top.

Anyway next time hopefully it lasts longer and I can give it a chance to mature for a few months. I think it will only get better.

 

[rickyrich]

So awesome looking back at old threads. I have always been and will always be a HUGE fan of Black IPA. The sucky thing is the style is pretty much dead. I haven’t been able to find anything on the shelf forever!!!

My fave Black IPA was always NightTime from Lagunitas but I could never find a clone recipe for that one. I’ve decided to brew Wookie this weekend and want to thank everyone for the info they contributed to this thread. I also wanted to add that I was quite surprised FW said they only used 5% Rye in the original Wookie recipe and are doing the same in Wookus.

https://www.brewbound.com/news/fire...us-imperial-black-ipa-part-leo-v-ursus-series

Wookus also has Mosaic in it now. I’ve always liked Mosaic in Black IPAs because the combination of that (berry) hop with the dark malt gives a dark fruit flavor.

Thanks again!

 

[cbier60]

Bought a 21st Amendment variety pack last month, and damn, that Back in Black was good. So the style is still available, though limited. Also had a draft black IPA at a local brewery in Mt Pleasant, SC last night. It was OK, but too roasted in my mind, a fault of many of the lesser versions of this style.

 

[rickyrich]

Bought a 21st Amendment variety pack last month, and damn, that Back in Black was good. So the style is still available, though limited. Also had a draft black IPA at a local brewery in Mt Pleasant, SC last night. It was OK, but too roasted in my mind, a fault of many of the lesser versions of this style.

I would actually settle for Back in Black right now but it’s not the same level as Wookie or NightTime IMO. Unfortunately, I can’t even find BIB.

 

[samandbekah]

IMO there's nothing close to Wookey Jack... Such an epic beer, I still struggle with the fact that FW retired it... I just brewed it this weekend and replaced Citra and Amarillo with Simcoe and Mosaic... Can't wait to try it!

 

[eric19312]

My two favs of the style were (and still are) wookey and sublimely self righteous.

 

[samandbekah]

My two favs of the style were (and still are) wookey and sublimely self righteous.

Nice... Never tried Sublimely Self Righteous... Where is it from? I'm in the North East and we get a lot of stuff from across the country here but obviously only if they distribute.