Finally pinpointed my off-flavor

[elpenoso]

Well, I did it! hot damn! After stressing out for a year on most of my beers uncommercial like quality, I finally figured out what was as I called the "homebrew flavor". The problem was simply dry yeast more specifically us05 (the yeast I primarily used).
During my quest for eliminating this flavor I have come a long way. I have built a fermentation chamber capable of holding 5 fermenters and made a water filtration system. Both great things to do for your beer. I have recently started to use 1056 liquid yeast with proper starters and since then my beers have all been excellent.
The conformation came when I didn't have enough starter for a 10g batch of brown and had to use us05 for 5g of it (with proper pitching rate). Not until I tasted the difference did I realize that those two yeasts are completely different. And not only that the us 05 batch had the particular off-flavor that I hated. So never again will I use this yeast.
And the people that say it is the same yest are wrong, they might have similar characteristics but they are not by any means the same. Try it and find out for yourself.

 

[Nateo]

I make good beer with dried yeast all the time. I'm not really sure what "off-flavor" the yeast makes. Maybe you just don't care for the flavor, and there's nothing wrong with the yeast?

 

[kingmatt]

Maybe you personally don't like the flavor that Safale-05 produces (which IMO is minimal given proper procedure, sanitation and temperature). To simply claim that the yeast causes an off "homebrew" flavor is incorrect.

I have brewed many quality beers using 05 that I would defy anyone to recognize as homebrew if they weren't told in advance...

 

[BrewerinBR]

I have used both Wyeast 1056 with and with out a starter... good success -- and Safale US-05 and had great success. I have never split a recipe and used a 1056 in one and us-05 in another, but I am going to try it, on a Brown Ale.... I will report back ...
I am very curious about this little experiment ... I use both of those yeasts consistently and interchangeably but never compared side by side.

 

[beergolf]

I use a lot of US-05 and do not taste any off flavor. It does attenuate very well and may dry out your beer and this may be what you are tasting.

 

[JonW]

I use US-05 a lot and never have off flavor issues.

I find it ironic that the OP is from Chico!

 

[TheMan]

What specifically is the flavor you are talking about?

 

[elpenoso]

I use US-05 a lot and never have off flavor issues.

I find it ironic that the OP is from Chico!

Yea thats funny isn't it. I guess that makes me an expert?. I am not saying that making good beer is impossible with s05 because I have done it. I am saying that's its not the same yeast and therefore does not have the same flavor. After all they are made by different companies.
Its funny some of my friends cant taste this so called "homebrew flavor" so I wouldn't expect all of you too either.
This post was for people that are trying to figure out their off flavors. Im not try to start **** with the dry yeast community. This is simply a report of my observations.

 

[AleFred]

i dont mean to hi-jack this thread but i'm having a problem with off flavors aswell...i've got 2 extract with specialty grains, 3 partial mashes under the belt so far. but im my last two batches i've gotten this sort of tangy smell and taste..honestly thats not really a valid description of the taste..i wish i could but it has occurred in the last two beers i've done, one a libtery ale pm and a bear racer pm...i wish i could send one of you so you can see what i mean.

 

[JonW]

My apologies elpenoso. I just found it ironic that US-05 is the "Chico strain" and you're in Chico. No offense meant.

Obviously, if you're having issues with the yeast you need to try and find something that works for you. We all do that. I think some of us were just trying to point out that US-05 doesn't automatically give beer that "homebrew flavor" and that maybe there is something else going on like temperature control. There are many commercial breweries that also use (dry) US-05 for their beers.

 

[flyfisherwes]

i dont mean to hi-jack this thread but i'm having a problem with off flavors aswell...i've got 2 extract with specialty grains, 3 partial mashes under the belt so far. but im my last two batches i've gotten this sort of tangy smell and taste..honestly thats not really a valid description of the taste..i wish i could but it has occurred in the last two beers i've done, one a libtery ale pm and a bear racer pm...i wish i could send one of you so you can see what i mean.

I have had the same problem with some of my beers I just recently did. Kind of tangy. Discussing it on the thread "all my beers taste the same" on beginners. My problem might be the oxyclean but it seems similar to yours.

However the beer I did with liquid yeast was the only one that turned out good without any off flavor.

Next. Isn't it possible that the yeast works differently with different water with different mineral concentrations. Maybe the yeast could produce an off flavor with certain minerals in the water? I don't know its just a suggestion.

 

[elpenoso]

My apologies elpenoso. I just found it ironic that US-05 is the "Chico strain" and you're in Chico. No offense meant.

Obviously, if you're having issues with the yeast you need to try and find something that works for you. We all do that. I think some of us were just trying to point out that US-05 doesn't automatically give beer that "homebrew flavor" and that maybe there is something else going on like temperature control. There are many commercial breweries that also use (dry) US-05 for their beers.

None taken. And yea I do realize that each brewery has its own unique problems and thus unique solutions. I know that its a large claim to make and isn't really supported by much evidence. But it appears the change has worked for me. It will probably work differently for others as they have different systems and methods.
I have not made a starter for the dry yeast as I have with the liquid so that is a factor as well. I am just having wonderful results with the 1056 now and don't see the need to ever go back.
The taste I get with the dry is hard to explain but it has some type of esters that dominate the flavor. In lighter beers especially (I have fermented it in a chamber with proper pitching temps and rates). The taste I am getting from the 1056 more closely resembles the Sierra Nevada yeast flavor (which is my goal).

 

[elpenoso]

Next. Isn't it possible that the yeast works differently with different water with different mineral concentrations. Maybe the yeast could produce an off flavor with certain minerals in the water? I don't know its just a suggestion.

Yes. I cannot explain what is going on micro-biologically all I know is that it is. This might not be your solution you might have to mess with your water. That was next on my list.

 

[bruin_ale]

I often get a peach or apricot flavor using S05, I wouldn't call it an off-flavor or even a "homebrew" flavor though.

 

[flyfisherwes]

Im going to start using liquid yeast either way and I'm Goin to wash and re use it as well.

 

[JonW]

My next brew day on 10/2 we will be brewing two 10 gallon batches of Pliny, blending the wort to normalize any differences and then fermenting 10 gallons each with US-05 and WLP001. It will be an interesting experiment. Both fermentations will be done in sanke fermenters and in the same refrigerator for consistency.

 

[Nateo]

The biggest problems with liquid yeast are price and viability. The biggest problem with dry yeast is the lack of selection. I live in the boonies, and I use almost only dry yeast now. They're every bit as good as my beer was when I used only liquid yeast, but maybe not as varied. Anyone who gets a poor result from dry yeast is not using it correctly.

 

[Coldies]

I will agree with that claim that they do not taste the same at all. I have brewed a pale ale about 5-6 times and the 1 time I used US-05 instead of the WLP001 I noticed a big difference. Certainly not as appealing as the WLP001 I was use to. I brew with a RIMS system and have temperature control so nothing could have been to off to cause the change of taste except the yeast.

Im not saying that US-05 is bad, IMO WLP001 is just better.

 

[SC_Ryan]

Before I started monitoring mash pH with a meter I found that I would sometimes get diacetyl and some ester presence with s05 that I didn't get with Nottingham or 1056. Mostly in lighter beers.

 

[Elweydoloco]

I won't lie my go to yeast is S-05 but I'm a very firm believer in if it works for you keep doing it. I keep a pack of S-05 in the fridge at all times. You never know when you'll need it.

You did a good job eliminating everything down to finding what it was. So who knows, maybe his LHBS bought a ton of S-05 it didn't move and he was buying old yeast, or maybe the LHBS didn't refrigerate it. There's no telling. In short I'm glad you found your problem and found what works for you.


Funny side note the first beer I brewed was a mini mash porter that had sat in my Dad's shop through Texas summers at easily 120 degrees inside a metal shop for two years. The yeast was never refrigerated nor were the extracts this one had some LME and some DME. I did a partial boil set the water up to almost boiling then did the mini mash after turning off the water and walking away for 45 minutes.

The over heated and longer mash should have made crazy off flavors, the yeast should have never hit the FG. Through some grace of God though it came out not just good but damn good.