(Final Attempt) Switch to AG: Worried

[TheCADJockey]

I recently gave brewing another try this September when I joined HBT and after annoying the living hell out of a few members, successfully made a partial-mash pale ale. It has reinvigorated my love for the hobby after previously quitting for a few years after a devastating attempt to switch to all-grain.

I'd really like to give it another try and make the switch to all-grain from partial mashing now. The partial works great for me but I worry about the end product once I remove the addition of extract and find out if I am in fact mashing effectively. I currently use a brewing bag just for ease and I'll likely stick with it. The only other homebrewer I've met does all-grain and produces beer of all styles; they all taste like burnt plastic. That being said, I have never had a homebrew that has blown me away. Mine have been good but still don't seem to be nearly as good as everyone else here who boasts of their success.

The Point: I would appreciate some criticism going in:
- If there is any absolutely necessary equipment I am missing or things to look out for.
- If anyone has any suggestion as to a great recipe to start with. My previous AG attempt was a Hefe, in the middle of summer with unmanageable ferment temps. (result was 60 gushing bottles that tasted like an over-carbonated cider, if you could salvage any of it).

My Equipment: Mostly basic kit with few additions:
- One quality brew pot, perfect for 5 gal batches
- Autosiphon
- Brewing bags
- Digital scale
- (Coming soon: early xmas gift) 10g cooler

As usual, I can not thank everyone enough. You've really helped me get my passion back.

 

[soccerdad]

IMHO - if you can make a good PM beer, then you can make the move to AG easily using BIAB. No need to rush - work the process a step at a time.

 

[dkevinb]

I agree with soccerdad. BIAB is very simple and easy. I'm in the middle of a BIAB mash right this minute. It's virtually the same as a partial mash, except with more grain.

That plastic taste may be due to chlorophenols, which are produced when the water contains chlorine and/or chloramines, which is virtually all city tap water anymore. The easiest way to get rid of it is to dissolve 1/2 a crushed up Campden tablet per 10 gallons of water a few minutes before starting to heat the strike water.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I agree with soccerdad. BIAB is very simple and easy. I'm in the middle of a BIAB mash right this minute. It's virtually the same as a partial mash, except with more grain.

That plastic taste may be due to chlorophenols, which are produced when the water contains chlorine and/or chloramines, which is virtually all city tap water anymore. The easiest way to get rid of it is to dissolve 1/2 a crushed up Campden tablet per 10 gallons of water a few minutes before starting to heat the strike water.

I have the same city tap water that he has and it really seems to be just fine. I've never had it tested or anything but I've never had any horrible off flavors or anything. He just ignores sanitation, fermentation temps, boiling temps etc.. claims its not a science and thinks it turns out great. So I think our water is fine. My three PM batches have turned out alright, they just seem a little lacking to me. It is hard I guess, not having any fellow brewers to critique what I have made or similarly, to try theirs to compare to my end result. I've only given a few of my pale ale to a friend and his girlfriend to try who's feedback was, "its good".

Anyway, I will try a Campden tab per your suggestion though. It can't hurt right?

 

[Happywanderer]

Doing partial mash you are 1/2 way there.

Use brewersfriend or Beersmith to build your recipe. I prefer brewersfriend. It has a great checklist for brewdays.

Water quality is important as is water pH.

I've not had a homebrew that tasted like burnt plastic. Your friend is doing something wrong. I've made homebrews that are far better than main commercial beers. I've made some that make me do a happy dance

I've had a couple batches that were ... eh... wont make those again.

It is a trial and error process for me. I try. If it is good ... great. If it is bad... I try again.

Equipment - you've already got the cooler inbound? If not, save your cash and buy a $30 coleman extreme cube cooler from Walmart.

**10-gallon pot (brew kettle, heating strike water, boil)
**5-gallon pot (heating sparge water)
**Hydrometer
**Really good thermometer
**A cooler or BIG bucket to stick your fermenter in. Add frozen 16-oz soda bottles. This keeps temps stable even in hot temps. I use a 70-qt Igloo cube cooler ($32).
**Immersion chiller. Or CFC chiller. I like the immersion chiller because I don't lose any wort in the chiller. And I don't have to ever worry about nasty bugs growing in my chiller. I place an aquarium pump in my Igloo cube cooler and fill with ice water. I pump the ice water thru the chiller. Works great. Not necessary if you've got cold hose water.

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

A little confused, you say that you currently use a bag and pan to stick with it. Does that mean you plan on doing BIAB? If so, why do you need a 10g cooler? If not, how are you planning on using the bag?

As for equipment, I would say some way of effectively cooling full volume wort should be high on the priority list, either an immersion or CFC. If you are even slightly handy you can make the rubber hose/copper tubing CFC for the same price as buying a 25' immersion, and in my opinion the CFC does a better job, faster, with less water. It also has the ability to grow with you moreso than the immersion chiller. Being in buffalo you can get away with setting the bucket on cold concrete or moving it around in snow drifts for the next few months.

As for recipes, what do you like to drink? Some suggestions I would offer would be simplicity to start. Don't go balls deep with some kind of vanilla coffee bourbon breakfast stout aged on oak transferred to cherries in secondary to start of with. Also try to stay under 1.060 to start, it will be less stress on the yeast.

I would also suggest using a recipe that has darker and or crystal malts in it. This will help with the water PH without getting to into water science to start. Unless you are using RO or distilled water, then add brewing salts accordingly. Use camp den tablets if using tap water. It will remove chlorine without having to boil or let set out. Treat mash and sparge water.

I would also suggest using a recipe that utilizes some of the more forgiving yeasys, cal ale, notty, english ale, and making sure you keep fermentation temps in check, either by a swamp cooler, basement, or T shirt and fan. Always try to get to the lower end of temp spectrum for "cleaner" flavor profile. Unless you have the ability to make a starter ( even if just a jar with DME and yeast that you shake every time you walk by), then stick with dry yeast, that you rehydrate.

Most importantly, have fun and enjoy what you are doing. It will take a few times to get your process down. It's always easie to start with a bare minimum base and add, then it is to start with too many variable and try to deduce.

The second most important thing (For me at least) enjoy some tasty homebrews while brewing (even if it is 8 in the morning �&#56883

 

[Happywanderer]

I have the same city tap water that he has and it really seems to be just fine. I've never had it tested or anything but I've never had any horrible off flavors or anything. He just ignores sanitation, fermentation temps, boiling temps etc.. claims its not a science and thinks it turns out great. So I think our water is fine. My three PM batches have turned out alright, they just seem a little lacking to me. It is hard I guess, not having any fellow brewers to critique what I have made or similarly, to try theirs to compare to my end result. I've only given a few of my pale ale to a friend and his girlfriend to try who's feedback was, "its good".

Anyway, I will try a Campden tab per your suggestion though. It can't hurt right?

Don't do what your friend does. NEVER ignore sanitation. EVER. Never ignore fermentation temps. This actually is a science. You don't have to know all the chemistry involved to make great beer... but observing good scientific practices will yield better results.

And it isn't hard. Star San is easy to work with. Soak your bits and pieces in that for a while before needed. Temperatures are easy to monitor and manage.

Water quality is important. It effects beer flavor and yeast health. Water with chlorine/chloramines in it isn't the best for yeast. Get Campden tablets as the easiest solution. Look up the water report for your area and figure out if it is good for brewing or not. Most likely it is ok, but if you have really hard water or really soft water then you might want to look into using reverse osmosis water or distilled water.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Thanks for the quick response guys, so a few things to try to answer some things you brought up:

- I agree I would like to get a wort chiller, but that part doesn't really bother me. I chill it outside now while I clean up inside.

- I don't know about the cooler I wanted to get, it just seems like everyone uses one. I found a 10g mash/lauter on northernbrewer.com for like $149, told the family it would help. Then I assumed I could use the ~5g kettle I have to strike/sparge or whatever.

- Someone suggested trying a bag for my PM in September when I restarted. I tried it for my grains, loved it just due to the ease of clean up. I used to strain all the grains out with my little strainer and it took forever.

- I will try a campden tablet and I also got some basic equipment to get my ferment temps in check a little better. They were never overly high (except for that one hefe), but they were on the high end for sure.

- Also, just started using StarSan in September. In love. My entire kitchen gets a solid coating of it by the time I'm done on brew day.

- As far as the recipe goes, I can not justifiably say I can create one myself. If I was given a pile of ingredients, I could not tell you what kind of beer it would make. I am not looking for something crazy, just a tried and true recipe that, if done correctly should yield great results. I do not care what style, as long as it doesn't take any out of the ordinary steps to accomplish.

 

[kombat]

The only other homebrewer I've met does all-grain and produces beer of all styles; they all taste like burnt plastic.

He's likely fermenting too hot.

Regarding recipes, start with a basic ale. Regarding equipment, make sure you have a good thermometer, and some items to keep your beer cool during those critical first few days of fermentation (i.e., swamp cooler).

Temperature control is the single most critical factor in making good beer. Sanitation is a close second.

 

[Foosier]

As someone who wants the brewing process to be as simple as possible while producing the best results possible, I would make the following recommendation.

Pots and process and all are important, but pale in comparison to the need to control your fermentation temperatures. If you can keep the fermentation temps low during the first few days, you will see a dramatic improvement in finished beer quality regardless of whether you do all grain by BIAB or conventional three vessel. There are a number of ways to do this which are not expensive including the "swamp cooler". Or you can spend money on a purpose built fermetation fridge. Personally, I use an old wine fridge with a broken compressor. I keep the temps down by adding frozen liter bottles to keep the temps low. This alone will make the biggest difference in the quality of the finished product.

Also, if you had gushers it likely had little to do with going all-grain and was more likely a result of bottling too soon (fermentation was not finished), too much priming sugar (leads to too much carbonation) or bad sanitation (infection got into the bottles and overcarbonated the batch.) Don't fear all grain it is really not that much harder than partial mash or full extract brewing.

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

I would suggest BMs oktoberfast, or the tasty nut brown ale, if you like those styles, as both are proven, and have fast(ER) turn arose me times.

As far as the cooler goes, if you are using it for mashing, you will not need the bag. If you are going to do BIAB, you will not need the cooler.

There are a ton of good recipes in the recipe section, as well as a new thread started last week about must brew proven recipes. Maybe search those and find something you would like to try.

Also, for the $5 campden costs, it's usefulness cannot be overstated. You do not want to mix chlorine of any kind with your grains.

 

[RM-MN]

How about we make this easy? I'd like to know how big your brew pot is but let's say it's at least 5 gallons. Bigger would be better to a point but for now lets start small. Put about 3 3/4 gallons of water in your brew pot and heat it to 160F. While that is heating, assemble and weigh the grains you have with the weights adjusted for a 2 1/2 gallon batch. Yep, just half as much as for a 5 gallon batch. With that smaller amount, if you totally screw it up, you won't have much invested. Get the grains milled, the finer the better. When the water is at 160, drop in the bag and fasten it to the sides of the pot so it will stay up and loose.

{BAG? You need a bag that is large enough to let the grains be loose during the mash. I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag but a nylon or polyester mesh bag will be fine.}

Use a stiff wire whisk to stir the grains into the heated water or a big spoon like I started with. Stir vigorously so all the grains are wet, no big blobs with dry centers. Put the lid on the pot, wrap it with an insulator (towel, sleeping bag, warm coat?) Ignore it for an hour. Don't even touch it!

When the hour is done, lift the lid carefully. Is the liquid clear or hazy? If it is clear, your conversion is done. Lift the bag out and suspend it over the pot to drain. At this point I usually move the bag to a colander set into a bowl but you could let the bag hang from something or rest on an oven rack to let it drain some more. You'll want all of this liquid back into the pot. If you haven't collected enough liquid to leave you with 2 1/2 gallons when your boil is over, pour some over the bag and let that drain into the pot.

Turn the heat on under the pot and while it is heating, dump the spent grains out and rinse the bag. I like to hang mine to dry at this time but I make sure I'm back to the brew pot before it starts to boil as that is when it will boil over if it isn't a big pot. Once the boil starts and the hot break material settles down, add your bittering hops and boil for an hour, adding any flavor or aroma hops as the schedule for your recipes states.

When the boil is done, you need to cool the wort. I like to set my pot into a large plastic tub that has some cold water in it and add snow to keep it cold. (You wouldn't happen to have any snow, would you?) Chill the wort to the bottom of the yeast's preferred range or if you don't know what that is, plan to chill it to 65, then pitch the yeast. Keep the fermenting beer cool for at least 3 or 4 days, then let it come up to room temperature until it is done, something like 2 to 4 weeks. Use your hydrometer to verify that it fermented properly, then verify it again in a couple days. Use a calculated, weighed amount of priming sugar dissolved in boiling water. Pour that into the bottling bucket, then use your sanitized autosiphon to transfer the fermented beer on top of the sugar solution, then using a bottling wand, fill and cap the bottles. Give them 3 weeks at room temperature, then sample the beer you made.

At this point, you will know if you should make more all grain batches or if you should give up. I think you'll want to continue and make bigger batches but if not, you haven't spent a lot to find out.

 

[Gavin C]

I have the same city tap water that he has and it really seems to be just fine. I've never had it tested or anything but I've never had any horrible off flavors or anything. He just ignores sanitation, fermentation temps, boiling temps etc.. claims its not a science and thinks it turns out great. So I think our water is fine. My three PM batches have turned out alright, they just seem a little lacking to me. It is hard I guess, not having any fellow brewers to critique what I have made or similarly, to try theirs to compare to my end result. I've only given a few of my pale ale to a friend and his girlfriend to try who's feedback was, "its good".

Anyway, I will try a Campden tab per your suggestion though. It can't hurt right?

I'm a bit confused. Are you asking for tips to improve your beer without including any science related to brewing? Sanitation, fermentation temps, yeast management, volume measures, water ions and their concentration, ingredients and their management, bottling etc, the list can go on and on. The forum is full of information. Does burnt plastic not count as an off flavor?

From a personal viewpoint I have noticed an improvement as I have refined the process. Science of brewing is central to my methods however. I've never been a fan of, "this works for me so it must be OK approach to brewing". I want to know what is ideal based on the science and what is doable in my own setup. Prime example is fermentation control. The result of no control on temps is beer. The result of carefully controlled fermentation is beer. Use whatever approach is suited to your needs and wants, but understanding the rationale behind the process will aid one in tweaking their setup should they wish to do so.

I am indebted to the contributions made by others on the forum. I also do all grain via a BIAB method and am very pleased with the results. I have invested quite a bit from my initial starter kit. Temperature controlled fermentation was crucial. An immediate improvement was noted and I am no expert on taste.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I've made homebrews that are far better than main commercial beers. I've made some that make me do a happy dance

I've never had this, it is exactly what I am trying to achieve. Even if it's just once

He's likely fermenting too hot.

Regarding recipes, start with a basic ale. Regarding equipment, make sure you have a good thermometer, and some items to keep your beer cool during those critical first few days of fermentation (i.e., swamp cooler).

Temperature control is the single most critical factor in making good beer. Sanitation is a close second.

He does things in the kitchen that are terrifying for someone who used to cook in a commercial kitchen. I am not comparing to him, just saying I don't have anyone else to accurately assess what I am doing or to talk to in person. I am going to fix my temp control for this one.

Pots and process and all are important, but pale in comparison to the need to control your fermentation temperatures. If you can keep the fermentation temps low during the first few days, you will see a dramatic improvement in finished beer quality regardless of whether you do all grain by BIAB or conventional three vessel. There are a number of ways to do this which are not expensive including the "swamp cooler". Or you can spend money on a purpose built fermetation fridge. Personally, I use an old wine fridge with a broken compressor. I keep the temps down by adding frozen liter bottles to keep the temps low. This alone will make the biggest difference in the quality of the finished product.

I have been able to keep my ferm temps relatively stable, they are just almost always at ~68*F. I'd really love a ferm chamber but I do not have the room for it where I live. I was thinking of getting one of those rubbermaid tubs with the rope handles that people like to put kegs in at frat parties and cover with ice. Maybe put a little water in it and use frozen water bottles to try and keep it low, cover with a towel and see if that helps?

I do have a good thermometer (since thats come up a few times) and a hydrometer. I always take readings and wait until fermentation is complete. However, I've never had a really violent fermentation. Lots of pictures on here show people having tubes on their airlocks going into buckets or beakers. I just have the little squirrely airlock.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I'm a bit confused. Are you asking for tips to improve your beer without including any science related to brewing? Sanitation, fermentation temps, yeast management, volume measures, water ions and their concentration, ingredients and their management, bottling etc, the list can go on and on. The forum is full of information. Does burnt plastic not count as an off flavor?

From a personal viewpoint I have noticed an improvement as I have refined the process. Science of brewing is central to my methods however. I've never been a fan of, "this works for me so it must be OK approach to brewing". I want to know what is ideal based on the science and what is doable in my own setup. Prime example is fermentation control. The result of no control on temps is beer. The result of carefully controlled fermentation is beer. Use whatever approach is suited to your needs and wants, but understanding the rationale behind the process will aid one in tweaking their setup should they wish to do so.

I am indebted to the contributions made by others on the forum. I also do all grain via a BIAB method and am very pleased with the results. I have invested quite a bit from my initial starter kit. Temperature controlled fermentation was crucial. An immediate improvement was noted and I am no expert on taste.

No no, I know its all science and plastic is not a good flavor. That was a statement referring to the only homebrewer I know personally. If I looked up water reports for my area I wouldn't know what I was looking at in the least. After his suggestion for the campden tab, I will just go to my LHBS on the way home to get the tabs and ask them if its the right thing for the area.

 

[TheCADJockey]

@RM-MN : Thank you for dumbing it down for me. This is the exact process I use for PM, I just used less grain and some extract.

Maybe it simply is my water and ferm. temp. that is keeping me from more exciting results. Each beer ends up having a familiar taste, regardless of style.

 

[squash1978]

He's likely fermenting too hot.

Regarding recipes, start with a basic ale. Regarding equipment, make sure you have a good thermometer, and some items to keep your beer cool during those critical first few days of fermentation (i.e., swamp cooler).

Temperature control is the single most critical factor in making good beer. Sanitation is a close second.

^ This.

I noticed a significant improvement in my homebrew when I began to more closely control fermentation temperature. It can be done pretty simply too. In the summer, I place my carboys in a giant rubbermaid tub filled with water and add ice packs to keep the temperature down during active fermentation. In the winter, I will move carboys upstairs if the temperature in the basement gets too cold.

 

[RM-MN]

I have been able to keep my ferm temps relatively stable, they are just almost always at ~68*F. I'd really love a ferm chamber but I do not have the room for it where I live. I was thinking of getting one of those rubbermaid tubs with the rope handles that people like to put kegs in at frat parties and cover with ice. Maybe put a little water in it and use frozen water bottles to try and keep it low, cover with a towel and see if that helps?

If the area you ferment in normally is that cool, you might not even need the ice. Cold water in a tub will bring down the temperature in the fermenter quite a bit. You might be able to keep it in the low 60's pretty easily just by adding a little snow if you could find some.

 

[TheCADJockey]

If the area you ferment in normally is that cool, you might not even need the ice. Cold water in a tub will bring down the temperature in the fermenter quite a bit. You might be able to keep it in the low 60's pretty easily just by adding a little snow if you could find some.

We lost all our snow believe it or not. We went from several feet of snow to shorts weather in a matter of days. My wife just bought me a set of huge rubbermaid totes. Maybe I don't need to pick up any new gear.

 

[feinbera]

Two general pieces of advice:

1. Pick one thing at a time to work on, and get that nailed before you start worrying about something else.
2. Related to #1, don't sweat overall quality (espeically compared to pro brewers with years of school and hundreds of batches under their belts!), celebrate the small victory of conquoring whatever thing you're working on.

Sounds like you've got the sanitation down. I'd almost say, just keep doing partial mash for a couple batches until you're sure you've got your temp control where you want it. Meanwhile, take copious notes on volumes/gravities of your partial mashes, and practice picking and hitting your volumes and rest temperatures – by the time you're confident you can keep an actively-fermeting batch to within a degree or two of where you want it, you'll have partial mash dialed in, and what you can do two three or four pounds of grain, you can do to twelve or fifteen. As long as you're not going completely crazy with specialty grains or adjuncts, it's just volume, time and temperature – if you get and hold one to two quarts per pound somewhere between 150° and 160° for an hour, and give it a couple good, hard stirs, your mash will be successful.

...then, once you've got three or four all-grain mashes under your belt and that starts to get boring, you can start geeking out on water reports.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Two general pieces of advice:

1. Pick one thing at a time to work on, and get that nailed before you start worrying about something else.
2. Related to #1, don't sweat overall quality (espeically compared to pro brewers with years of school and hundreds of batches under their belts!), celebrate the small victory of conquoring whatever thing you're working on.

Sounds like you've got the sanitation down. I'd almost say, just keep doing partial mash for a couple batches until you're sure you've got your temp control where you want it. Meanwhile, take copious notes on volumes/gravities of your partial mashes, and practice picking and hitting your volumes and rest temperatures – by the time you're confident you can keep an actively-fermeting batch to within a degree or two of where you want it, you'll have partial mash dialed in, and what you can do two three or four pounds of grain, you can do to twelve or fifteen. As long as you're not going completely crazy with specialty grains or adjuncts, it's just volume, time and temperature – if you get and hold one to two quarts per pound somewhere between 150° and 160° for an hour, and give it a couple good, hard stirs, your mash will be successful.

...then, once you've got three or four all-grain mashes under your belt and that starts to get boring, you can start geeking out on water reports.

I guess you're right. Maybe I should just do a few more partial mash. Talk to LHBS about our water and try a campden tablet and attempt to drop my fermentation temp. five degrees or so.

Thanks everyone. Sorry for the annoying questions.

 

[RM-MN]

I guess you're right. Maybe I should just do a few more partial mash. Talk to LHBS about our water and try a campden tablet and attempt to drop my fermentation temp. five degrees or so.

Thanks everyone. Sorry for the annoying questions.

I'm not sorry a bit. From questions such as these we can all learn. :rockin:

 

[Happywanderer]

Yep - no worries. Ask all the questions you can.

Fermentation temp will vary depending on yeast and on desired result.

62-68 seems a good range for many yeasts. Some (like belgians) can go much higher. Lower temps = cleaner finish. Higher temps = esters and perhaps some fusel if too high.

Check your yeast package for ideal temp range. Try to maintain within 1-2 degrees of whatever temp you pick for a few days, then let it warm up by a few degrees for a bit longer.

 

[ghohn]

I would suggest BMs oktoberfast, or the tasty nut brown ale, if you like those styles, as both are proven, and have fast(ER) turn arose me times.

As far as the cooler goes, if you are using it for mashing, you will not need the bag. If you are going to do BIAB, you will not need the cooler.

There are a ton of good recipes in the recipe section, as well as a new thread started last week about must brew proven recipes. Maybe search those and find something you would like to try.

Also, for the $5 campden costs, it's usefulness cannot be overstated. You do not want to mix chlorine of any kind with your grains.

+ 1 If on a city water supply, campden is your best friend.

I disagree about the either or when it comes to BIAB VS Mashtun. I use a 'hybrid' system. It's a rectangular cooler that's in the 80-100qt range. Use the existing bore or create your own (hidden under the SS colander) like I did. Place an upside down colander over the bore. Drape a bag or lining inside to create a reliable filter. It's cheap, easy to clean, reliable (no stuck sparges), serves as a fermentation bath, serves as storage and is still suitable for the family BBQ (no permanent manifold hardware).

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

The either or response was based on (at least they way I understood it) Cad already having a bag for PM, and buying a new Igloo cooler already set up for mashing (spigot, sock, thermo, etc).

Your post does bring up an interesting alternative though. All said and done, you could probably do your method with the bag on the cooler, for less that the preassembled mash cooler.

 

[madscientist451]

I do the bag in a cooler for mashing, but I did replace the original spigot with a valve from my local hardware store, Its not the best setup but its simple, cheap, easy to use and clean up.
Bag was $6.95, 5 gallon cooler was $19.95 at walmart, valve and pipe was like $10.
I skipped partial mash and extract and went with all grain from the get go and even with the inevitable problems the beer was good, not great, but way better than some of the crap some "craft brewers" are selling for $10 a six pack.
So get a book, or look online for recipes and get brewing, just follow the directions in the recipe, you'll be fine. Go get a copy of "Brewing Classic Styles" by J. Zanisheff for yourself for christmas and down load a copy of John Palmers free ebook on how to brew and you'll put your problems behind you after a few batches.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I really appreciate all the input guys =) I do however, have an entire bookshelf of brewing books and have read just about all of them. The real problem is that I tend to stress out over it, probably due to the fact that I haven't made one of those knock-your-socks-off beers yet. At least not in my mind, and as I've stated elsewhere... without having any viable feedback I don't really know. I'm very excited to try a water tablet; who knows, maybe it will be the one thing that bumps it up a notch. A few little tweaks from all of your suggestions has already helped a ton. I made myself a swamp cooler last night and have a spare dorm freezer stocked with frozen ice bottles. Now I just need to find my first all-grain recipe to try out.

 

[noblesquirrel]

I really appreciate all the input guys =) I do however, have an entire bookshelf of brewing books and have read just about all of them. The real problem is that I tend to stress out over it, probably due to the fact that I haven't made one of those knock-your-socks-off beers yet. At least not in my mind, and as I've stated elsewhere... without having any viable feedback I don't really know. I'm very excited to try a water tablet; who knows, maybe it will be the one thing that bumps it up a notch. A few little tweaks from all of your suggestions has already helped a ton. I made myself a swamp cooler last night and have a spare dorm freezer stocked with frozen ice bottles. Now I just need to find my first all-grain recipe to try out.

Here's a couple more things I'll throw out there. Fermentation temperature is important, for sure. But so is pitching rate. If you're underpitching, you'll get beer that is pretty mediocre. This would speak to why you've never had a particularly vigorous fermentation. What are you fermenting in? What size of container? Additionally, I highly encourage you to get in touch with a local homebrew club. Looking at the AHA website, there appear to be 4 in Buffalo registered with the AHA:
Barley Sober Brewing Club (no website)

Brewbonic Plague (no website)


Niagara Association of Homebrewers - http://www.niagarabrewers.org/

Sultans Of Swig (no website)

I'd recommend getting in touch with them so you can actually experience some other folks homebrew and get some feedback on your own. It'll do a ton for improving your beer, be it all grain or otherwise.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Here's a couple more things I'll throw out there. Fermentation temperature is important, for sure. But so is pitching rate. If you're underpitching, you'll get beer that is pretty mediocre. This would speak to why you've never had a particularly vigorous fermentation. What are you fermenting in? What size of container? Additionally, I highly encourage you to get in touch with a local homebrew club. Looking at the AHA website, there appear to be 4 in Buffalo registered with the AHA:
Barley Sober Brewing Club (no website)

Brewbonic Plague (no website)


Niagara Association of Homebrewers - http://www.niagarabrewers.org/

Sultans Of Swig (no website)

I'd recommend getting in touch with them so you can actually experience some other folks homebrew and get some feedback on your own. It'll do a ton for improving your beer, be it all grain or otherwise.

Hey thanks man. I've never played with pitching rates. I do everything by 5g. batches so I just use the single packets of yeast that I get from LHBS. So far all I've used is US-05 as well, as they suggested its pretty durable for the temps I'm at. I'm hoping the swamp cooler will help out a bunch; will just need to practice keeping it at a steady temp I assume.

 

[kombat]

So far all I've used is US-05

Did you rehydrate or just sprinkle in? Just one pack?

And that dorm freezer you mentioned - is it big enough to hold a carboy with an airlock? Have you considered using it as a fermentation chamber to really dial-in your fermentation temperatures?

 

[TheCADJockey]

Did you rehydrate or just sprinkle in? Just one pack?

And that dorm freezer you mentioned - is it big enough to hold a carboy with an airlock? Have you considered using it as a fermentation chamber to really dial-in your fermentation temperatures?

I always just open the (1) pack and sprinkle it on top. Always 1 pack, always US-05. Oh... I've tried getting my carboy in there. It's too small sadly. That would've been perfect.

 

[kombat]

I always just open the (1) pack and sprinkle it on top. Always 1 pack, always US-05.

This is a little bit of a controversial subject, but the science shows that sprinkling dry yeast directly into the beer can reduce yeast cell viability by up to 50% (ref: "Yeast", by White/Zainasheff). So this is another clue that you've probably been underpitching, which stresses the yeast and produces unpredictable (and often undesirable) flavours.

 

[TheCADJockey]

This is a little bit of a controversial subject, but the science shows that sprinkling dry yeast directly into the beer can reduce yeast cell viability by up to 50% (ref: "Yeast", by White/Zainasheff). So this is another clue that you've probably been underpitching, which stresses the yeast and produces unpredictable (and often undesirable) flavours.

Gaah... Its just how I learned, never made any attempts to change that. I'll have to figure out what goes into rehydrating then. For thinking I was doing okay, this thread makes it seem like half of what I was doing was wrong... or at least sub-par.

 

[chato]

I was thinking of getting one of those rubbermaid tubs with the rope handles that people like to put kegs in at frat parties and cover with ice. Maybe put a little water in it and use frozen water bottles to try and keep it low, cover with a towel and see if that helps?

This is what I use and I'm able to control my fermentation temps pretty well. I fill the tub up with water that is a few degrees below my target pitch temp, drop the fermenter in, then fill it up to within a few inches of the level of the wort in the fermenter. I then add frozen liter-sized water bottles during the early exothermic stage to keep it at my target temp. I use a big mouth bubbler with the two-hole lid and have a 24" long Thermoworks thermometer that I keep in the wort to show me the actual wort temp. Now that winter has hit, I have to take the fermenter out of the tub after fermentation dies down and use a heating pad to keep the wort warm.

 

[kombat]

Gaah... Its just how I learned, never made any attempts to change that. I'll have to figure out what goes into rehydrating then. For thinking I was doing okay, this thread makes it seem like half of what I was doing was wrong... or at least sub-par.

Don't be so hard on yourself - you still made beer, didn't you? Taking these few extra steps will simply help you make BETTER beer, which is the entire point of this thread, isn't it?

Rehydrating is VERY easy. You can find the manufacturer's data sheet here, but the instructions for rehydration are as follows:

Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°C ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes.
Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

I start prepping my yeast with about 10 minutes left in the boil. I take a (sanitized) graduated beaker and add 115 mL of tap water, checking the temperature with my (sanitized) thermometer and adjusting (by dumping a little out and adding hot/cold water as needed) until it's right at 80°F. I then sprinkle in the yeast (some will just sit on top, not contacting the water - that's fine), cover the beaker with (sanitized) aluminum foil and go chill my beer.

Once the beer is chilled and I'm racking it to the carboy, I run back inside and give the yeast a stir with a (sanitized) spoon, then recover it and go back to my beer. I aerate, move it downstairs, and by the time I'm ready to pitch the yeast, it's got a nice little creamy foam on the surface.

I've found that when I follow the above procedure, and I'm particularly careful about the temperature and water volume, I have noticeably faster and more vigorous fermentations.

 

[TheCADJockey]

That doesn't seem bad at all, I wish I had known how important that was in the beginning. I'm going to start doing this; I assume I should purchase stuff for a blow-off tube then too just in case. Can not thank you enough for the generous information.

 

[kombat]

A blow-off is good insurance, but (again, just in my experience) I've found that if you're having a fermentation violent enough to push up through the airlock, then you either filled the carboy too full, or are fermenting too warm. When I control my fermentation temperatures (I use a plastic laundry tub and water bath, with a wet t-shirt draped over the carboys, controlling the water bath temperature with frozen 2L pop bottles), and hold the temperature right around 63-65° F, the fermentation doesn't go too crazy, and I get a nice, controlled krausen for 3-5 days. I then take the carboys out of the water bath and let them warm up to room temperature to finish the fermentation. Doing it this way, the krausen rarely fouls up the airlock, and even then, only on high-gravity beers, or if I let it get too warm.

 

[TheCADJockey]

A blow-off is good insurance, but (again, just in my experience) I've found that if you're having a fermentation violent enough to push up through the airlock, then you either filled the carboy too full, or are fermenting too warm. When I control my fermentation temperatures (I use a plastic laundry tub and water bath, with a wet t-shirt draped over the carboys, controlling the water bath temperature with frozen 2L pop bottles), and hold the temperature right around 63-65° F, the fermentation doesn't go too crazy, and I get a nice, controlled krausen for 3-5 days. I then take the carboys out of the water bath and let them warm up to room temperature to finish the fermentation. Doing it this way, the krausen rarely fouls up the airlock, and even then, only on high-gravity beers, or if I let it get too warm.

That sounds right down my alley and is exactly what I am doing with the cider I made to test out the swamp cooler thing. The only thing I was missing was the wet t-shirts. This is very reassuring. I can not wait to make beer Saturday now. Confirmed from a few guys in a local brewing club through facebook that they use Campden tabs too. This thread has been so very helpful.

 

[Gavin C]

Gaah... Its just how I learned, never made any attempts to change that. I'll have to figure out what goes into rehydrating then. For thinking I was doing okay, this thread makes it seem like half of what I was doing was wrong... or at least sub-par.

The various yeast companies' websites give detailed instructions on the optimal way to handle the yeast. Hydration of the yeast is important enough that the manufacturers give detailed instructions on how to do it. Why just one type of yeast? Many beers rely on a specific yeast for flavor. An obvious example is a Hefeweizen.

This is redundant info as I have just read prior posts in the thread on the subject. Sorry

 

[TheCADJockey]

The various yeast companies' websites give detailed instructions on the optimal way to handle the yeast. Hydration of the yeast is important enough that the manufacturers give detailed instructions on how to do it. Why just one type of yeast? Many beers rely on a specific yeast for flavor. An obvious example is a Hefeweizen.

This is redundant info as I have just read prior posts in the thread on the subject. Sorry

Its all good man. Every time I think I have a grasp on how things work, something comes up and makes my head esplode. I usually just ask my LHBS what I should use and they keep handing me the 05. I need to start going in with more confidence, but they are just as bad as this forum sometimes. If I ask them (what I think is) the most simple question, they retort with a question that makes me question everything I've been doing! Oh well. It gives me something to think about at work when the work is so repetitive that I have black and white lines burned into my vision when I close my eyes.