FIB War Room

[SAISON FUCK]

Yes and they are always fun. Whoever thought of turning that space into a popup is a wizard. It always does well and was empty all the time when it was the surf bar.

I went to the surf bar once, such a weird vibe. Almost Lynchian. We closed it down on a weeknight I believe.

 

[Alum]

Just wait till the Transient pop up (which makes much more sense than any of these by definition). We are gonna have a couple trash cans on fire and you’ll all drink beer out of used cans of beans. You’re gonna hate it.

"But Chris.. can't we just use any cans?"

"NO. THEY HAVE TO BE BEANS. PEOPLE WILL KNOW."

 

[Gonzoillini1]

I highly recommend reading the comments on Josh Noel's FB post from this afternoon regarding the newly signed IL Taproom Law.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

I highly recommend reading the comments on Josh Noel's FB post from this afternoon regarding the newly signed IL Taproom Law.

Maynard does not disappoint.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

So remind me: HB 4897 allows for these taprooms to also serve other breweries' beer, plus wine and cider, and be able to transfer beer from one production facility to another or a taproom without going through their distributor?

 

[Gonzoillini1]

So remind me: HB 4897 allows for these taprooms to also serve other breweries' beer, plus wine and cider, and be able to transfer beer from one production facility to another or a taproom without going through their distributor?

No to wine, only for cider (and I'm not sure about Mead / Cyser honestly). And yes regarding part 2, but only for beer that has already had taxes paid on it. It was pitched as a way for places to serve collaborations if they didn't have a brewpub license, and to allow a gluten free option for places that didn't have a wine license.

The back and forth between Maynard / Mike Roeper was fascinating, and while I empathize a bit with Mike (Owner of Hopleaf for those who don't recognize the name) I don't really care that the Guild is promoting legislation that benefits breweries at the possible expense of craft beer bars.

However, if I owned a beer bar there is no way I'd be paying the associate member fee to join the Guild when it is actively promoting legislative agendas that might run counter to what benefits my own business.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

I don't really care that the Guild is promoting legislation that benefits breweries at the possible expense of craft beer bars.

However, if I owned a beer bar there is no way I'd be paying the associate member fee to join the Guild when it is actively promoting legislative agendas that might run counter to what benefits my own business.

What irks me about the discourse is that these breweries make the claim that this *finally* gets them on the road toward an even footing with the business model they weren't born into but are now trying to co-opt to continue growth, while at the same time being defensive/protective over certain special dispensations they've been able to keep carved out only to themselves (i.e., growler sales).

But to your final point, Gonzoillini, this seems like a prime opportunity for Chicago breweries with taprooms to lose friends and alienate people. My hope would be that these brewers see the need to forge new and maintain established retail relationships, but with the ink barely dry we've already got some saying to their partners, "get your own lobby, or maybe consider becoming a brewery."

 

[kodt]

I highly recommend reading the comments on Josh Noel's FB post from this afternoon regarding the newly signed IL Taproom Law.

Very entertaining. Zak has been fighting to do growler fills for years, that was a fun read. I feel like Gerrit was kind of being an ass though, his argument was basically: "Since we don't fill growlers, it isn't a revenue motivation for us, therefore your point is invalid" lol what about all the breweries that do fill growlers?

 

[thewimperoo]

Maynard trying to be an authority on anything besides chicken wings is always fun.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

I feel like Gerrit was kind of being an ass though

"This is not a legislative issue we are currently pursuing at this time."

 

[BobCobb1]

If you accept the non-protectionist / "quality" arguments against retail growler sales (I don't, for the most part), why is a blanket law necessary? Would it not be possible for a paricular brewery to ink an agreement through a distributor with growler restrictions for retailers who receive kegs? I imagine the distributor would be the sticking point there, as a direct brewery-to-bar agreement would seem to be quite simple.

 

[Thorpe]

I’m probably missing some helpful rule here, but I don’t think there should be any restrictions on alcohol sales other than not serving to people who are underage or clearly intoxicated.

Retailers should be able to fill growlers and breweries, taprooms, etc should be able to sell whatever alcohol they want. Distributors should be optional for everyone.

 

[trickytunadicky]

I’m probably missing some helpful rule here, but I don’t think there should be any restrictions on alcohol sales other than not serving to people who are underage or clearly intoxicated.

Retailers should be able to fill growlers and breweries, taprooms, etc should be able to sell whatever alcohol they want. Distributors should be optional for everyone.

The argument some breweries have against bars filling growlers is that they won’t meet qc standards, though I guess like most things, if a place us bad at growlers they won’t sell a lot.

 

[Thorpe]

The argument some breweries have against bars filling growlers is that they won’t meet qc standards, though I guess like most things, if a place us bad at growlers they won’t sell a lot.

Right. And this is in my fantasy world with no distribution laws so just don’t sell to that place anymore.

 

[kodt]

The argument some breweries have against bars filling growlers is that they won’t meet qc standards, though I guess like most things, if a place us bad at growlers they won’t sell a lot.

True, but they are fine selling their beer to places with bad draft lines?

 

[trickytunadicky]

I don’t think it’s just about how often a place cleans draught lines. Once you start growlering you add more complications: Nitro purging, bottom filling, etc.

And I do know places that have been cut off from receiving kegs because they growlered things they weren’t supposed to. But how much control do you have as the producer? What if the distributor is the problem? Are you ****** until your contract expires?

 

[danbanana]

So remind me: HB 4897 allows for these taprooms to also serve other breweries' beer, plus wine and cider

Which taprooms? Because Haymarket has had guest taps since they opened. And the Mousetrap does, too, right? Probably others I'm not thinking about. What's the differentiation before and after this bill?

I know I've probably talked about this before, but in conversations over the years with beer nerds from other parts of the country, Chicago's general lack of brewery taprooms/brewpubs has always seemed unique compared to other older beer cities/regions (Colorado and Oregon, in particular). Up until the last couple of years, Chicago breweries seemed to jump into production and ignore the brewpub model. I always suspected it was because of land prices but I'm not so sure anymore. Was it more about limitations to those businesses imparted by Illinois law? Was it a healthy number of good beer bars?

 

[Alum]

I'd imagine if you have a full liquor license you can serve whatever you want.

It's probably the specialized tap room ones (IE - Cheaper licenses) that just allowed you to pour your own product that now get this added benefit.

It kinda ***** over places like you mention (Haymarket, Off Color, etc) because they were already doing it the right way.

 

[danbanana]

Also, the argument that a bar can't "properly" fill growlers is ******** and a common tactic for many industries to create artificial limitations to benefit certain segments. I've seen this time and time again in my own work life.

Once a brewery releases their product to the distributor, they've essentially ceded control of it. They have the option to work with the distributor or even the POS location to encourage proper handling, but that's about it. Being concerned about how to fill growlers is silly when a significant number of POS- and even distributors- pass off old product, store it in poor conditions, etc. It's strange to harp on "quality" when it comes to growlers but not with packaged goods.

 

[Alum]

It would be nice to hear from someone that actually understands liquor licenses though.

I'm just trying to link together what I'd assume is fairly close to the truth.

 

[Thorpe]

It would be nice to hear from someone that actually understands liquor licenses though.

I'm just trying to link together what I'd assume is fairly close to the truth.

Brewpubs are a different license already allowed for serving liquor, wine, and guest beers. Brewpubs have limited production caps and cannot self-distribute. Large breweries (Class 2) can also own brewpubs (e.g., Rev). Brewpubs don’t have to serve food. I beliee previously beer needed to go from the production facility to a distributor and then to the brewpub for places like Rev and Off Color. I don’t recall if that changed here but I suspect so.

 

[middlebrow]

Which taprooms? Because Haymarket has had guest taps since they opened. And the Mousetrap does, too, right? Probably others I'm not thinking about. What's the differentiation before and after this bill?

I know I've probably talked about this before, but in conversations over the years with beer nerds from other parts of the country, Chicago's general lack of brewery taprooms/brewpubs has always seemed unique compared to other older beer cities/regions (Colorado and Oregon, in particular). Up until the last couple of years, Chicago breweries seemed to jump into production and ignore the brewpub model. I always suspected it was because of land prices but I'm not so sure anymore. Was it more about limitations to those businesses imparted by Illinois law? Was it a healthy number of good beer bars?

zoning & liquor licensing have long been the issue holding back breweries in like popular parts chicago (ohh and the astronomical cost where you are forced to take on investors). you think our great BYOB culture is because restaurants dont want to make money on alcohol? watch the months on the calendar fall as pipeworks deals with it.

and you can walk out to lots of collar suburbs and you encounter a forced brewpub scenario where 60% of your business has to be food and not alcohol. if you make beer, maybe you dont wanna make burgers.

and i had no idea 350 was doing so well that one of their employees can scorch earth a bunch of chicago bars (and quite frankly the biggest of chicago beer bars).

 

[danbanana]

and you can walk out to lots of collar suburbs and you encounter a forced brewpub scenario where 60% of your business has to be food and not alcohol. if you make beer, maybe you dont wanna make burgers.

I've lived in Oak Park for 15 years. You don't have to tell me about arcane booze laws and food percentages!

 

[lb304854]

and i had no idea 350 was doing so well that one of their employees can scorch earth a bunch of chicago bars (and quite frankly the biggest of chicago beer bars).

I regularly forget they even exist and I live ten minutes away.

Copy/paste what they posted pls.

 

[mjohnson171]

My (limited) understanding through talking with a few industry people is one of the main drivers to this new law was (supposedly) so that breweries didn't have to carry a bunch of different liquor licences (both State and City). There's a complicated matrix of different licenses you need from a state perspective depending on the type of booze you server, you make, the amount you make, etc etc. So a brewery may need to carry something like 6 different licenses if they're a brewpub but also have a production facility, etc.

I think the City of Chicago rules are more straight forward, it's basically $4,400 for a liquor license for 2 years (unless you get into special stuff like outdoor patio, late night, or special event things like catering).

So I think this discussion really revolves around State licensing.

But to be honest, it's not like these state licenses should be breaking the bank for a brewery. Most of these are between $500-$1200. So if you were in a complicated situation where you're a brewpub who's also a brewery, who also wants to serve wine and other spirits and maybe some other exception or two, you'd be looking at a few grand in licensing fee.

Are we really to believe that this fight is over a couple grand in operating costs/year? Let's be real, it's more than that, with deeper seeded motivations.

 

[middlebrow]

I regularly forget they even exist and I live ten minutes away.

Copy/paste what they posted pls.

imagine every large bar owner saying i dont like this rule if further hurts us or why cant we fill a growler and being met with -
JM - 'don't like it, open up yr own brewery brogan.'

 

[yeahnatenelson]

Perfect encapsulation of the Manard vs everyone conversation:

Justin, I think you're missing our point. We can all fight to the bitter end to enact laws that only promote our own business but it's a tad short sighted. Breweries and bars depend on one another. If you rely on outside bar sales it makes sense to promote the existence of bars. I know a lot of bars (mine included) that have spent years promoting small breweries. I think a lot of small breweries are doubling down on their pubs because it's so hard to get tap handles. That fine but don't expect us to welcome you with open arms when you outgrow your pub and need to move some kegs. As you say "fight for your rights." Excuse us if we feel a little double crossed but it's bars like Michael Roper's that have championed craft beer and made your career possible. Keep that in mind.

Wow. You even mentioning your business made my career a possibility is shocking. I think we are done here.

 

[vav1]

Oh man I have so much to say but no time to do it right now hhhnnnnnnngg

 

[Tooch4321]

Perfect encapsulation of the Manard vs everyone conversation:

God, I wish someone mentioned chicken wings during all of this. Where can I go view this dumpster fire?

 

[thewimperoo]

God, I wish someone mentioned chicken wings during all of this. Where can I go view this dumpster fire?

The comments for this FB post.

(Link to media)