FG & ferment speed (Newbie questions)

[eewanco]

I am making my first batch of cider and after one false start the fermentation is going great guns now. In fact it's going so fast, that after three days or so, I'm already halfway to my FG of 1.010 (now at ABV 2.9%). This is causing me to confront some questions I wasn't ready to answer, I have a book on order I was planning on referring to that's taking its sweet time (thanks, Amazon; trying to nudge us to Prime I suppose).

I heard that you're not supposed to bottle above SG 1.010, so, wanting a less dry cider, I set that as my FG as, again I am told, you are supposed to choose a FG and go for it. But I'm not sure of the what or why of 1.010, and I have only a vague conception of how to pick a FG (much less how to achieve a sweeter cider, though I suppose that's for another topic). I've also heard it said you should ferment until the yeast is done (otherwise won't your bottles explode?), but how does that fit into picking your FG? How do you determine from the beginning how to get the yeast to stop at the FG you want? And how about adding potassium sorbate when you hit your FG, or does that prevent proper aging? Is this done or is it verboten?

Is my fermentation going too fast?

I am not using secondary fermentation because my buddy who has been doing this for years doesn't bother. The guy at the brew store confirmed that this is OK. I just threw everything in a carboy and plan to go til the end. What are the disadvantages of this? When is primary fermentation supposed to end and secondary begin?

Thanks for answering and for any feedback.

Details, if you want them:
K1 yeast
No added sugar
Half-dose of Fermax at rehydration
Around 58 degrees
OG 1.051
SG 1.030
Target ABV 5.5%
Bubbles are about once a second and have been for most of the fermentation (I understand this is not the proper way to gauge fermentation)

 

[Maylar]

Most people don't target a specific FG, we just let it go until the yeast run out of sugar. From what I understand, the only practical way to stop an active fermentation is to heat the cider and kill the yeast.

What are your intentions as far as bottling or kegging?

 

[eewanco]

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what my intentions are for bottling. I plan to bottle. I want a carbonated cider (but not by adding pure CO2, forget what this procedure is called). I think my buddy adds dextrose before bottling and I'd thinking of doing the same. Obviously adding potassium sorbate before bottling would make this not work.

 

[MarkKF]

Ferment dry ( when it stops on its own ). Then back sweeten as desired. Bottle with corn sugar or brown sugar. When desired carbonation is reached pasteurize. See the sticky.

 

[eewanco]

Thanks for the help, Mark. I may try pasteurizing. How do you know when the carbonation is enough, though?

 

[MarkKF]

Use a couple plastic soda bottles. Squeeze them every day. You'll feel them getting harder. When you think you are there open one and drink it. If it's not enough you still have another to squeeze for a couple more days.

 

[madscientist451]

If you have swing top bottles, you can bottle when the gravity hits 1.005, and the cider will then bottle condition and give you some carbonation. If using regular beer bottles, I'd let the yeast work till its done and then add the priming sugar you like and bottle.
Your fast fermented cider may suit your taste, maybe not.
I've found a fast ferment with 1118 can throw some off flavors, but the juice you are using and several other factors may make a difference.
Your details above don't say anything about what kind of juice you are using, so its hard to predict the outcome with the information that's provided.

 

[eewanco]

Madscientist,

To be honest I don't quite know how to answer your question about what kind of juice I'm using. It's raw cider, without preservatives, from an orchard (Honey Pot Hill in Stow, Mass.), there isn't much more to it than that. Is that the answer you're looking for? No clue what kind(s) of apples.

I am using K1-V1116, is that what you were referring to or is there another K1 yeast? I'll be using regular bottles. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[rowan57]

I am making my first batch of cider and after one false start the fermentation is going great guns now. In fact it's going so fast, that after three days or so, I'm already halfway to my FG of 1.010 (now at ABV 2.9%). This is causing me to confront some questions I wasn't ready to answer, I have a book on order I was planning on referring to that's taking its sweet time (thanks, Amazon; trying to nudge us to Prime I suppose).

I heard that you're not supposed to bottle above SG 1.010, so, wanting a less dry cider, I set that as my FG as, again I am told, you are supposed to choose a FG and go for it. But I'm not sure of the what or why of 1.010, and I have only a vague conception of how to pick a FG (much less how to achieve a sweeter cider, though I suppose that's for another topic). I've also heard it said you should ferment until the yeast is done (otherwise won't your bottles explode?), but how does that fit into picking your FG? How do you determine from the beginning how to get the yeast to stop at the FG you want? And how about adding potassium sorbate when you hit your FG, or does that prevent proper aging? Is this done or is it verboten?

Is my fermentation going too fast?

I am not using secondary fermentation because my buddy who has been doing this for years doesn't bother. The guy at the brew store confirmed that this is OK. I just threw everything in a carboy and plan to go til the end. What are the disadvantages of this? When is primary fermentation supposed to end and secondary begin?

Thanks for answering and for any feedback.

Details, if you want them:
K1 yeast
No added sugar
Half-dose of Fermax at rehydration
Around 58 degrees
OG 1.051
SG 1.030
Target ABV 5.5%
Bubbles are about once a second and have been for most of the fermentation (I understand this is not the proper way to gauge fermentation)

Your K1V is likely to stop at 1.000-0.990 giving you an ABV between 6.7% and 8.1% without intervention.

 

[eewanco]

rowan,

Thanks for the very useful information. Not what I wanted to hear but it's important to know. Looks like I may want to try another yeast next time.

SG is 1.018 as of today (4.4%). And I thought it tasted pretty good.

 

[Yooper]

rowan,

Thanks for the very useful information. Not what I wanted to hear but it's important to know. Looks like I may want to try another yeast next time.

SG is 1.018 as of today (4.4%). And I thought it tasted pretty good.

Different yeast won't change the FG, at least not much. Cider is made up of simple sugars, which are fully fermentable. Wine yeast will take it to .990-.996 generally, while I've had some with ale yeast finish at 1.004 but that is the highest.

I generally reach FG by day 5 in my wines and ciders, so yours sounds on track.