Fermetation

[tommy24a]

Beginner here in AG brewing, playing around in Brewsmith with some recipes to adapt to my equipment. I have a conical fermenter. I see recipies that call for 2 and more stage fermentation profiles. Can I adjust the recipe to use single stage? If so what are the pros and cons of doing so?

 

[rburrelli]

Please clarify “stage fermentation profiles”.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Maybe OP is writing about the BS Session tab?

 

[tommy24a]

Yea its in the brew session tab. The original recipe calls for say 2 stage profile ..but u can change it to single stage..just wanted to know the pros and cons of doing that. Meaning switching from 2 stage to single stage fermentation

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I've been brewing since 1995. Doing a single stage fermentation contributes to cloudy homebrew and possibly bottling (kegging doesn't matter in this case) before FG is reached.

I know others at HBT disagree, but I always do a secondary, cold crash and fine with plain gelatin.

 

[tommy24a]

Then I would need another vessel to do 2 stage?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Yes. We normally begin with another food grade bucket (and then move on to SS buckets, etc). Gently transfer from the primary, leaving all the trub behind, into the secondary. IMO, this will make a huge difference in your homebrew.

 

[tommy24a]

Got ya!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Keep the yeast from the primary and pitch again. This cuts the yeasts costs. I will reuse yeast up to 5 times.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Then I would need another vessel to do 2 stage?

It can also be done in a single vessel in a temperature controlled system.

Turning to the Beersmith fermentation profiles, you can think of them the same way that you approach mash steps. Just like a mash, when you adjust the temperature of a fermentation you're doing so to achieve a result. A common practice is to pitch toward the bottom of the yeast's temperature range (to discourage unwanted yeast-derived flavors) then allow the fermenter to warm toward the end of the process to help the yeast finish up and clean up in an efficient fashion. This is then followed by a "crash," or reduction of the temperature to encourage the yeast to floc out and allow the beer to clear.

This three step (or stage, as Beersmith calls it) process can be conducted in as many as three or as few as one vessel. There are pros and cons to each method, but I'd suggest that whichever process works for you and delivers beer that you're happiest with, is the right process.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

IMO, get the primary off the yeast!

 

[tommy24a]

I do have a temp control spike conical..heat and cool..have not brewed yet on the new system I got...

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Fermentation temp is very important!

 

[jddevinn]

No need for secondary with a conical, just dump the yeast and trub from the bottom.

 

[tommy24a]

Ahhhh...see I'm learning! Thanks!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I have a conical and they don't always reliably dump the yeast. Transfer the beer to the secondary off the yeast.

 

[jddevinn]

Preferably with a couple psi of CO2 pressure at the top of the conical during dumping and cold crashing to prevent sucking in air.

 

[Gozie Boy]

One of the great benefits of having a SS conical is that you can easily dump trub/yeast (and with no risk of O2 entry) without having to go to a secondary. To me, moving the fermentation to another vessel unnecessary. It requires some time, work and hassle; introduces an unnecessary risk (e.g. oxygen); and needs more equipment, space, stuff to clean, cost... The possible limited reward for me is not worth these added costs and risks.

 

[ncbrewer]

White and Zainashef's Yeast book recommends against transferring to secondary - leave it in the primary the whole time. They discuss the theories that a secondary prevents off flavors from the yeast breaking down, and that a secondary clears the beer faster. They discuss reasons that these are not completely valid and conclude that generally speaking, transfer to secondary isn't helpful. I respect both ideas, but I do feel that secondary fermentation should at least wait until you have experience with a few batches, if ever. I haven't used secondary in many years, and the beer generally comes out of the fermenter very clear, with no autolysis flavors that I can detect.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I brew 12 gallons. When primiary is finished I transfer to two SS brew buckets, each 5.5 gallons, allows me to cold condition one of the SS brew buckets while the other SS brew bucket sits at basement temp awaiting use.

 

[Miraculix]

Secondary is rubbish. Don't do it if you don't have a real good reason for it, the only one I can see would be long term aging, that's it. It does not benefit clarity of the beer and it is detrimental to flavour on multiple levels. Don't do it.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Everyone has their methods. I prefer a secondary. To each is own.

 

[Miraculix]

Everyone has their methods. I prefer a secondary. To each is own.

Yes, that is true, you can certainly do whatever you want to your beer and I am sure that your beer tastes fine.

However, this is a newbe asking for advice, and giving dated advice that has be debunked multiple times and that can be argued against by logical reasoning, is not a nice thing to do. Let´s give some examples why secondary is not a good idea.

1. The yeast autolysis thing just does not happen any more. Back in the days, yeast was ****** and half dead, today this is just not happening within the normal primary timeframe. Everything up to multiple months in primary does not display autolysis.

3. The beer does not get clearer through secondary. If the stuff settles out during additional days in secondary, this stuff will also settle out in primary, given the same time.

2. You will introduce oxygen during the proces of transfering and this will degrade your beer. You might be very careful and skillfull and the amount of oxygen might be little, but this means you need to have expensive equipment and you need to know what you are doing. And even if this all is the case, you will still introduce oxygen and it will still degrade your beer. For nothing.

3. You are removing the yeast cake and therefore also loose valuable time during which the yeast actually could clean up some of the bad stuff they created during active fermentation. This clean up phase is important, especially when fermentation conditions were not as perfect as they should be. The yeast will sort this out up to a certain degree, if given time to do so. If you remove it from the yeast cake, it cannot do this cleaning up.

3. You risk contamination. New vessel + transfer + oxygen = Heeellooooo bacteria!

4. You make stuff unnecessarily complicated, especially for beginners, this is really not good.

5. More steps = More sources of possible failures

6. You need more vessels.
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.
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I am sure there is more, but this is what just came to my mind.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

To each his own...

 

[tommy24a]

Thaks all to have replied And gave their opinions..great info!