fermenting, bottling and carbonation

[irishrover32]

im gettin ready to do my first extract brew using DME (a milk stout) and iv got a few questions. first off is it necessary to secondary ferment when extract brewing or can i just primary ferment in my bucket and then bottle? what is the best way to carbonate my beer (ie tablets or surgar) and how do i go about it and what exactly effects carbonation and how can you control it?

 

[microbusbrewery]

1. No, the school of thought has changed on secondary. You usually only need to secondary if you're planning on bulk aging, adding fruit, etc. If you're not doing those kinds of things it's better to not use a secondary and risk issues like oxidation and contamination. You just want to make sure it's done fermenting before bottling, so check the gravity over a few days to make sure it isn't changing.
2. You can carb using just about any fermentable sugar. Tablets are more expensive. Table sugar, corn sugar, honey, all will work. Check out a priming sugar calculator like this one, http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/
3. You control the level of carbonation by the amount of priming sugar you add. Gently mix it with the beer in a bottling bucket.

 

[Doongie]

Add priming sugar to the bottling bucket, then add the beer, racking to the bottom (under the surface of the liquid in the bucket, to minimize aeration. If you get a whirlpool action going, it seems to mix well. I don't know about using honey, being a bit more thick, I've never used it..

 

[irishrover32]

1. No, the school of thought has changed on secondary. You usually only need to secondary if you're planning on bulk aging, adding fruit, etc. If you're not doing those kinds of things it's better to not use a secondary and risk issues like oxidation and contamination. You just want to make sure it's done fermenting before bottling, so check the gravity over a few days to make sure it isn't changing.
2. You can carb using just about any fermentable sugar. Tablets are more expensive. Table sugar, corn sugar, honey, all will work. Check out a priming sugar calculator like this one, http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/
3. You control the level of carbonation by the amount of priming sugar you add. Gently mix it with the beer in a bottling bucket.

thats a great tool thank you very much, i think ill use some brown sugar to ferment my milk stout, does the type of sugar you ferment with impart anything to the beer besides carbonation?

 

[irishrover32]

Add priming sugar to the bottling bucket, then add the beer, racking to the bottom (under the surface of the liquid in the bucket, to minimize aeration. If you get a whirlpool action going, it seems to mix well. I don't know about using honey, being a bit more thick, I've never used it..

would it be acceptable to add the priming sugar to the top of the beer and very gently stir it in as i dont plan on using a bottling bucket, my plan is to botte from the fermantion bucket?

 

[flars]

Gently stirring in the priming sugar will gently stir up the trub. You will have a lot of bitter sediment in your bottles. Rack to a bottling bucket. Hold the siphon above the yeast/trub layer for the least sediment transfer.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Gently stirring in the priming sugar will gently stir up the trub. You will have a lot of bitter sediment in your bottles. Rack to a bottling bucket. Hold the siphon above the yeast/trub layer for the least sediment transfer.

+1, you really want to use a bottling bucket.

As to the other question, I've never been able to detect any kind of flavor contribution from priming sugars. It's a very small amount relative to the volume of beer. I forgot to mention, I always dissolve priming sugar (even when using honey) in a small amount of boiling water. Then add it to the bottling bucket and gently stir so as not to introduce oxygen.

 

[Pie_Man]

Bottling from a bottling bucket with a spigot is a lot easier and will help to keep most the trub and yeast out of your finished beer.

 

[irishrover32]

ok guess ill go for the bottling bucket its only an extra 10er.

getting a bit side tract here but could you add soaked vanilla vodka to the bottling bucket before bottling to induce a vanilla flavour or could this only be done by secondary fermentation?

 

[Pie_Man]

getting a bit side tract here but could you add soaked vanilla vodka to the bottling bucket before bottling to induce a vanilla flavour or could this only be done by secondary fermentation?

You could, but I would not. If you're just blending flavored vodka with your beer, I would either add it to the glass at serving time, or add a little bit to some of the bottles. Maybe that's just me, but I wouldn't want to run the risk of over blending and I certainly don't want 5 gallons of vanilla vodka beer.

Also, you should learn what your beer tastes like unadulterated, so you can improve your recipe and/or technique. Especially on your very first homebrew.

That's my two pennies.

 

[reverendj1]

ok guess ill go for the bottling bucket its only an extra 10er.

getting a bit side tract here but could you add soaked vanilla vodka to the bottling bucket before bottling to induce a vanilla flavour or could this only be done by secondary fermentation?

This is fine and how many people do it. Just dump it into your water/priming sugar solution before the bottling bucket so it will mix more evenly.

Also, on a side note, I think most people use corn sugar for priming. It is supposed to have better carbonation than table sugar. I'm not starting a flamewar, I have never used table sugar for priming, but corn sugar is only $1 a lb at my LHBS.

 

[reverendj1]

I read it as you had soaked vanilla beans in vodka and wanted to add this at bottling. Make sure you soak them for a few days/weeks prior to adding.

 

[microbusbrewery]

It is supposed to have better carbonation than table sugar.

Just playing devil's advocate, do you have any data supporting why it's better and how are you defining "better"? Again, not trying to be a d!ck, just trying to get the whole story.

 

[reverendj1]

Just playing devil's advocate, do you have any data supporting why it's better and how are you defining "better"? Again, not trying to be a d!ck, just trying to get the whole story.

I personally use it because it is what is typically used/recommended, and it isn't all that much more expensive. I have heard that it provides "better carbonation", I think referring to the size of the bubbles. At any rate, it is easier for the yeast to digest, since they have to create an extra enzyme to break down table sugar. If you want to get all technical, BYO has an article that doesn't really say either is better, but has all kinds of info on the chemical differences of sugars. Like I said in my previous post, I have no idea if it truly works better (I've never tried anything else), and I'm not trying to start any kind of flame war, I'm just saying most people (including myself) use corn sugar. Also, I think all kits that come with priming sugar use corn sugar.

 

[reverendj1]

So, after doing a little more research, I really can't find any real evidence saying that corn sugar is better. Most people who have used both seem to notice no difference. It seems corn sugar is used just because it is the simplest sugar. Maybe it would create a difference if the yeast were already stressed? Who knows. For the forseeable future, I'll continue to use corn sugar, because for me, it isn't much more expensive, $1/lb vs $.50/lb (as in ~$.50 vs $.25 per batch), and I know the wife won't use it for regular baking, etc. and leave me running to the store on bottling day. I've never been opposed to using table sugar if I didn't have any (since I've always known the differences were negligible), but that has never been a problem.

 

[microbusbrewery]

It's all good, like I said I wasn't trying to be a d!ck about it, I was just curious. I've been brewing for about 13 years but it seems like there is always new info that comes out about this process or that process, so I figured it was worth probing a bit deeper.

 

[aslander]

It's all good, like I said I wasn't trying to be a d!ck about it, I was just curious. I've been brewing for about 13 years but it seems like there is always new info that comes out about this process or that process, so I figured it was worth probing a bit deeper.

Read John Palmers How to Brew. It goes over the efficiency of various sugars and has a chart IIRC that shows corn sugar as being more effective than cane sugars etc.

 

[reverendj1]

It's all good, like I said I wasn't trying to be a d!ck about it, I was just curious. I've been brewing for about 13 years but it seems like there is always new info that comes out about this process or that process, so I figured it was worth probing a bit deeper.

No worries. I like being called out. It gives me more reason to research.