Fermenter size for 15L beer kit?

[monotious]

Hi, I am trying to make beer for the first time using a beer kit.
The kit I bought contains 15L of liquid and the instruction tells me that I need a 46L container as fermenter.

The instruction tells me to combine the 15L of liquid that's contained in the kit with 8L of water. That's a total of 23L.

Why does the instruction say I need a fermenter that's twice the volume of liquid it will be containing? I do have a 23L plastic container that I use to make wine (which is actually a bit bigger than 23L, in order to contain the foam that generates during wine fermenting, which I assume beer will similarly generate foam during fermenting), but I want to know if there is an actual reason why my beer kit instruction says I need a 46L fermenter.

This is what's been keeping me from getting started. I don't have a 46L container.

Edit: with some research, I see that the extra space is needed for the foam, and that how much foam is generated depends on the beer. My beer kit says "premium lager". Are lagers the type that produce large head? I suspect the instructions in my beer kit is a universal instruction that the manufacturer includes with all types of kits they sell, so that may be why they ask you to have a large fermenter, but it just makes me wonder if you really need a fermenter that's twice the volume of the liquid.

Oh, and I also have a question about sanitization. Winemaking does not require as stringent sanitization as beermaking seems to demand. It's weekend today and I have nowhere to get that pink sanitizer anywhere. I think I heard diluted liquid bleach will do as well. Is there any specific way in which bleach should be used for sanitizing?

Also, is sanitization really absolutely necessary as they make it out to be, or is a reasonable level of cleanliness (the same level of cleanliness for winemaking, which I am used to and did not cause any issues in winemaking) suffice?

Thank you. I definitely want to get started on this beer kit today, which has been sitting in my basement for months.

 

[bucketnative]

Rule of thumb: 20% to 33% larger to accommodate the krausen during fermentation. So for a 5-gal batch (19 L) most people use a 6 to 6.5-gal (23 to 25-L) fermenter.

 

[monotious]

Thank you.

So what would happen if I just used my 23L (+ some extra) container as fermenter and it turns out it is not enough?
It's typical plastic bucket for wine with a lid with rubber seal.

Will it burst? Will the beer leak through the airlock?

I am inclined to just go ahead with what equipment I have but if it's an absolute no-no, then of course I would reconsider.

 

[dwhite60]

23 liters in a 23 liter bucket is going to cause problems. If your lid has a hole for an airlock you could stick a piece of tubing into it, it has to fit TIGHT, and put the other end in a bucket of sanitizer. This is risky though. If the tube clogs it will blow and and you'll have a serious mess. You MIGHT get by with a 28 liter bucket.

Can you split this into two smaller batches? Just split the yeast between them.

Good luck!

Where are you located? Someone here may be close enough to lend you a bucket.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[PADave]

You need some head space, filling a bucket to the brim wont work. Use a blow off tube from the get go, don't bother with an airlock until vigorous fermentation is done. Yes, sanitation is important, one of the most important parts of brewing. You can use bleach, but then you have to rinse it, which kinda defeats the purpose if there would be anything in your rinse water. Plus there are much better options out there. I'd suggest put the brewing on hold till you get what you need to do it right.

 

[monotious]

Thank you for all responses. I decided to go ahead with what I have, and learn from the likely failure that will result.

I just used the 23L bucket I have. After pouring wort and water there was about 15cm space from the liquid to the rim of the bucket. I didnt close the lid tightly but instead just lightly put the lid on top of the bucket so I can monitor the head.

Also, I did not sanitize. As I said, I am prepared to fail. Just want to know, will it be unsafe to drink the product that results from using unsanitized equipment, or is it just that the taste will be bad, but ok in terms of health?
If former, in what way will the taste be off? Sour? Bitter? In other words, how will I know that the beer spoiled? Will it be very noticeable?

 

[PADave]

Also, I did not sanitize. As I said, I am prepared to fail. Just want to know, will it be unsafe to drink the product that results from using unsanitized equipment, or is it just that the taste will be bad, but ok in terms of health?
If former, in what way will the taste be off? Sour? Bitter? In other words, how will I know that the beer spoiled? Will it be very noticeable?

I think I recall reading in "How To Brew" that there is nothing that will grow in beer that will kill you. If you get an infection, there will be a nasty growth on top when fermentation is finished. Just do a search on here and look at some of the pics. Who knows what it will taste like, depends on what bug grows, most likely sour. When people do get a bad infection, they usually start replacing fermenters, hoses, etc. that touched that brew, because it's hard to get rid of the infection once it gets in your equipment. In summary, not sanitizing on purpose was probably not the smartest idea for this brew or your future ones.

Post your infection thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=71400

 

[monotious]

So why is it that sanitization is more important in beer making than in wine making?

As I alluded to above, I've been making wine all along, without really giving a lot of thoughts to sanitization. It's only when I looked into beer that I started to really hear about this. Is beer somehow more susceptible to infection than wine is for some reason?

I suppose there is at least the difference in the end product. Wine can be stored and aged for years, or even decades, under right conditions, but from what I know beer has much shorter lifespan. But what's the scientific reason for the difference? My google search doesnt turn up anything readily readable on this subject.

 

[MrAverageGuy]

Can't speak to wine, never made any - but yes, you have to be scrupulously clean when making beer. Evrything, and I do mean everything that touches cold-side wort should be sanitized. I'd never use bleach - StarSan is a low investment, and doesn't hurt the beer if there's some minimal contact.

On aging beer, some styles (e.g., RIS) do get better with long aging periods - say a year or more...

Good luck!

 

[PADave]

So why is it that sanitization is more important in beer making than in wine making?

As I alluded to above, I've been making wine all along, without really giving a lot of thoughts to sanitization. It's only when I looked into beer that I started to really hear about this. Is beer somehow more susceptible to infection than wine is for some reason?

I suppose there is at least the difference in the end product. Wine can be stored and aged for years, or even decades, under right conditions, but from what I know beer has much shorter lifespan. But what's the scientific reason for the difference? My google search doesnt turn up anything readily readable on this subject.

I don't do wine, but from what I understand you still should practice good sanitization. My guess would be that wine is more forgiving because of the higher alcohol produced? But that's just a guess. I can't see why you'd want to take the chance, after spending the money for ingredients, equipment, and the time involved? For literately a few more cents per brew you can use StarSan and greatly increase the probability of your brew coming out good. You've got a big thing of sugary liquid that makes the perfect home for all kinds of nastys to grow. Keep them out so only the yeast grows if you want to make something drinkable.

 

[monotious]

It's not just the cost or at least the cost as you might see it. I live in Canada and these things are not as readily available here (just go to Amazon.com and search for Star san and then go to Amazon.ca and search for star san and compare the results). Not otherwise readily available here either.

In any case, now that I know, I will probably get a hold of star san for my next batch of wine or beer.

 

[ncbrewer]

Since you cleaned thoroughly, your beer will PROBABLY not be infected. But sanitizing reduces the chance of infection. According to Charlie Talley (inventor of Star San), it produces a 7 log kill with 30 seconds contact - definitely way better. Star San is a really popular sanitizer, but if you can't get it, check the catalogs for iodophor and others.