fermentation temps/bsmt vs ferment chamber

[phishheadmi]

I'm currently in the process of putting together my first all grain brewing setup and I'm debating whether or not I should build a fermentation chamber. I guess I'm kind of a gear head and I can't stand half measures, so I want to have everything right before I brew my first batch. If I have to build a chamber, so be it...if I can get away without, that would be preferable.

I'll be doing my brewing in an attached garage. I could build a fermentation chamber that would live in the garage OR use an unfinished storage room in my basement. (I'm a reasonably skilled DIYer so constructing the chamber doesn't scare me...though finding the time might) I've had a container of water in the storage room for a couple of weeks now and the water temp fluctuates only from 67-68 degrees F (this during the hottest time of the year). Currently, there's no HVAC running in the room, so it's completely ambient temp. I do have a heat run into the room that I could activate, so heating in the winter shouldn't be an issue, just keeping the room cool enough in the summer. I live in Northern Michigan, near the lake and humidity is an issue (90 degrees today and 90% humidity) so evaporative coolers are not an option.

I anticipate wanting to have more than a couple brews fermenting at a time, so I'd prefer to stay away from a fridge or chest freezer chamber. I do have a couple of window a/c units that are no longer used (but working) that could easily be sacrificed for the build should I decide on a fermentation chamber.

I guess first I need to decide whether or not my storage room would be good for fermentation...it maintains a relatively constant temp in the mid-high 60's, it's dark and rarely accessed, spillage would not be an issue.

Thoughts?

 

[Jakor]

Fermentation off flavors are determined almost entirely within the first 2-3 days after pitching your yeast. After that, temperatures don't matter much, so long as they don't get so cold that the yeast go dormant, or the yeast don't die from 90F+ temperatures. With a mini fridge or chest freezer, you could ferment a batch in the fridge for a few days, then pull it out and let it sit at ambient to finish up/do a diacetyl rest/age for as long as you want. Only limitation is that you would need to use your fridge space to do any lagering if you want to do lagers. It is usually recommended though that beginners stick to ales, since they are more forgiving.

That said, you absolutely do not need a fermentation chamber if you have a room in the mid to high 60's. This happens to be the perfect temperature for almost all ale yeasts. My father has a room like this, and never has an issue with off flavors. I would say start out fermenting ales in your storage room, and if you want to proceed to hybrid/lager style beers, you can get a small fridge or freezer that can fit 1 or two carboys at a time. The fridge will also give you the ability to cold crash your ales, which helps with clarity, but isn't necessary in the slightest.

Maybe use the money you would have spent on a fermentation chamber to make sure you buy a big enough kettle/mash tun so that you won't have to upgrade in the near future if you decide to do larger batches. That is of course only if you know you will be sticking with this hobby.

 

[RM-MN]

The activity of the yeast during the active part of the ferment can raise the temperature of the beer. Your basement is at a pretty decent temperature for the ferment but the beer might not be unless you control it somewhat. When I put my beer in a 62 degree room, the beer temp will rise to 64 to 66. If I started at a higher temp, the temperature rise can be more so make it difficult for the yeast to bring the beer temperature up by setting the fermenter in a tub of water as that water will absorb some of the heat produced. You can help it even more by dropping in one or two soda bottles full of ice.

 

[phishheadmi]

Thanks for the input, Jakor. That's exactly the answer I was hoping for.

I like your idea of having a small fridge or freezer to use for initial fermentation and cold crashing. I'll start with my storage room for now, but keep an eye out for a cheap chest freezer or something to use in this manner.

I also agree with your thought of going with a larger kettle. I'm actually kind of jumping in with both feet on that one...I'd been looking at used setups or creating my own, with a HLT, Igloo cooler style mash tun and boil kettle when I came across a great deal on a used RIMS setup...$675 includes steel brewstand, 3 keggles, 3 burners, 1 march pump, electric RIMS module/controller and all the hoses, sparge arms, fittings, accessories, etc. It does need a couple items, like a new ball valve on one of the kettles, second pump replaced (though I think I can use it with just one pump by batch sparging, no?) All said, I think I'll have about $1,000-1,200 in the setup, additional equipment and supplies for the first couple/few brews. I'm going to pick up the brewery Monday, can't wait! I'm sure the setup I'm buying is way overkill for a beginner...and I'll be facing a steep learning curve, but the price is comparable to what I was seeing for a basic cooler setup and I should be able to use the system for a long time. I'd rather buy the right gear now and not have to continually upgrade. If I get to the point where I'd like to do larger batches, I'm confident I can just switch out the keggles for larger pots.

 

[phishheadmi]

Thanks for the info RM-MN, so do you think I'd be smart to go with a shallow water/ice bath for the first 2-3 days then remove to mid-60's storage room for the remainder of fermentation?

 

[blizz81]

I would still recommend a fermentation chamber. Not only do you get these advantages: "and if you want to proceed to hybrid/lager style beers, you can get a small fridge or freezer that can fit 1 or two carboys at a time. The fridge will also give you the ability to cold crash your ales, which helps with clarity, but isn't necessary in the slightest."


...but as mentioned, thermal activity can really bump up temps depending on the beer and / or the yeast used. In ambient 67-68*F, I'd say you're pretty much always going to end up in at least the low 70s at the peak of your fermentation, which is generally borderline for most yeasts re: esters, etc. As another example, I used S-04 in a 7% stout in my ferm chamber with the probe dangling in the freezer, and set it to 63*F, and came home the next day to a freezer full of liquid and my fermentation going nuts, measured inside the carboy at 79.8F. Some yeasts that take off (as well as just some bigger beers period) will experience an almost-exponential thermal increase if not held in check.


Could work around it re: beer styles and known yeast behavior if it gets colder in the winter (ie, brew estery or intentionally warm-fermenting beers only in the summer, or if you generally brew pretty small-ish beers with yeast that doesn't take off like a rocket, maybe it would never be a big problem for you). But it's nice to have options / control. Doesn't need to be big - as mentioned, you really only need to run it during the active first few days of fermentation, then you can move out.

 

[m00ps]

id use that 90F room for some SAISONS!

if you can, id try to keep it in the ice bath thing for the first 5 days or so. By then, most of the flavor has been developed and its less susceptible to temp differences. Letting it warm up will actually help the yeast anyway

 

[Bellybuster]

just for interest, over the years I have spent thousands on brewing equipment. The $200 I spent building a fermentation chamber was the biggest improvement in my beers over everything else

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks for the info RM-MN, so do you think I'd be smart to go with a shallow water/ice bath for the first 2-3 days then remove to mid-60's storage room for the remainder of fermentation?

I think that would be a good place to start although depending on the brew and the yeast used you might need a couple more days. Once the activity slows down you can let the beer temp climb into the 70's for most ales if you want. Here's a better description than I can write. http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html

 

[phishheadmi]

Well, like I said, I can't stand half-measures...and, it seems most folks here agree that temp control during fermentation is the best way to make better beer...

So, I grabbed a used chest freezer on CL for $50 and just ordered the inkbird ITC-308...I figure for $90 total, it's $$ well spent.

Now, for the heat portion of the equation, I have one of these bad boys laying around that I'm not using...

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...X&ved=0CH8QuiRqFQoTCLu9n6qH6McCFUg0PgodPYYH8g


What do you think about mounting it on the inside sidewall of the freezer?

I also have a couple oil radiator type electric heaters as well as a fan style heater...or should I just go with a heat light bulb?

 

[slym2none]

An IR bulb (like for a reptile cage) seems to be what a lot of people use.

 

[SpeedYellow]

...

That said, you absolutely do not need a fermentation chamber if you have a room in the mid to high 60's....

Wow, I come to the exact opposite conclusion. About half my beers are lagers and thus need much colder, like around 50F. The other half are ales, which I generally ferment around 63-65F, which thus needs an ambient around 60F or less due to temp rise during active fermentation. So mid- to high-60s would be completely useless to me.

Which is why I have a fermentation chamber in my basement.

 

[SpeedYellow]

...
Now, for the heat portion of the equation, I have one of these bad boys laying around that I'm not using...

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...X&ved=0CH8QuiRqFQoTCLu9n6qH6McCFUg0PgodPYYH8g


What do you think about mounting it on the inside sidewall of the freezer?

I also have a couple oil radiator type electric heaters as well as a fan style heater...or should I just go with a heat light bulb?

You have to be careful here. If you are measuring beer temp using a thermowell, then a high-powered heater can overheat the chamber as it waits for that heat to get through your beer. So it could be very dangerous.

If you use a thermowell, you want the heater to be as close to that thermowell as possible, which means you want the following, in order of best to worst:
1. Heater inside the beer. (yeah, impractical)
2. Heater wrapped around your fermenter.
3. Heater heating up the air around the fermenter.
4. Heater heating up the walls of your chamber. <--- the worst option.