Fermentation temperature

[DrNecropolis]

So, I'm trying to nail down my fermentation temp control.

I know the ambient temperature of the room I will be using, but being as fermenting beer is exothermic, I'm trying to get a handle on what the fermentation temp will be..

I have several lbs of dextrose, would it be possible to boil up 5 gallons of sugar water and add a bread yeast in my primary to monitor the internal temperature with a digital thermometer?

I highly doubt that would work, just something I thought of while I was cleaning bottles..

If not, what could I do to be able to test the fermentation temp before brew day?

 

[kh54s10]

I am not really sure what you are getting at or how you plan to control the temperature. You can expect the wort to go 5-10 degrees higher than ambient.

If you are using a swamp cooler you will need to watch the wort temperature and add ice bottles when necessary. It might take some experimentation to know how much ice and when.
If you have a fermentation chamber with a temperature controller. The sensor against the side of the fermenter and insulation (folded washcloth) taped over it should do it automatically.

 

[DrNecropolis]

Not trying to control it with fermenting sugar water.. just want to see what it will roughly be so I can plan my control procedures accordingly..

Looking to see where its going to be, that way I will know if a simple fan blowing on it will be fine or if I need to look at a SC or beyond..

 

[kh54s10]

I don't know about doing a sugar water fermentation. I doubt it would be very accurate to the actual beer, and personally I would not waste any yeast or $$ doing it. I recommend the swamp cooler. If a fan works, fine. If not add ice water bottles. You just need to watch the temperature fairly closely for the first couple of days.

 

[DrNecropolis]

I don't know about doing a sugar water fermentation. I doubt it would be very accurate to the actual beer, and personally I would not waste any yeast or $$ doing it. I recommend the swamp cooler. If a fan works, fine. If not add ice water bottles. You just need to watch the temperature fairly closely for the first couple of days.

Yeah, I got thinking about the difference between fermenting beer vs "cheap hooch" (seen another thread where the guy was fermenting sugar water and adding cheap juice to it) and figure it isn't going to be the same reaction, hell, I'm sure each batch will vary.. so the experiment seems moot in that aspect anyway..

Just rather bored and have some bakers yeast and about 15lbs of dextrose laying around..

Thanks anyway..

 

[kh54s10]

Interesting. I am very frugal so my penny pinching would stop me from this type of experimentation.

As I said the fermentation would probably be different enough that the results would not be useful.

But if you are bored enough - post the results.

 

[DrNecropolis]

I might go ahead with it.. not sure..

I mean, do I really want to go through the hassle of boiling 5 gallons of water to just add some dex?

Hell, I might as well..

 

[DrNecropolis]

OK.. done.. in the process I noticed the temp wasn't coming down.. turns out my digital is jacked up (I really doubt the inside of my mouth is 130 degrees)..

So I suspended a floating thermometer in there, I plan on checking it twice a day for 5 days..


Ambient in the room is 69.4 (taken with a different, verified thermometer)

So, active should be anywhere from 73-80 is what I'm assuming.. once it gets to 75, I will try tote with cool water and towel with a fan to see where the temperature stands..

 

[BigFloyd]

Unless you really want to "reinvent the wheel", this information is pretty well established and discussed in these forums with some frequency.

For a typical gravity (say 1.050) 5-gallon batch of ale with the correct amount to yeast pitched into it and fermented at the suggested temps, you're likely to see a beer temp of 5-8*F higher than the surrounding air during the most active part of fermentation. Slightly more (up to +10*F) and somewhat less has been observed, but that's a pretty good rule of thumb.

Monitor the fermenter temp as you should and take necessary steps to keep that temp in the proper range for the yeast used regardless of the ambient air temp.

 

[DrNecropolis]

Unless you really want to "reinvent the wheel", this information is pretty well established and discussed in these forums with some frequency.

For a typical gravity (say 1.050) 5-gallon batch of ale with the correct amount to yeast pitched into it and fermented at the suggested temps, you're likely to see a beer temp of 5-8*F higher than the surrounding air during the most active part of fermentation. Slightly more (up to +10*F) and somewhat less has been observed, but that's a pretty good rule of thumb.

Monitor the fermenter temp as you should and take necessary steps to keep that temp in the proper range for the yeast used regardless of the ambient air temp.

I know.. I've been lurking and reading for a few months, just wanted to get an idea of it the path I am going to have to take to maintain proper temperature.. knowing what the possible temperature is going to be is great, but finding out my method of cooling it down doesn't work when its in motion already isn't acceptable to me.. that is the purpose of this, to find out the length I have to go to make sure I don't overshoot the temp by a mile..

Preventive precautions I suppose..

 

[BigFloyd]

I know.. I've been lurking and reading for a few months, just wanted to get an idea of it the path I am going to have to take to maintain proper temperature.. knowing what the possible temperature is going to be is great, but finding out my method of cooling it down doesn't work when its in motion already isn't acceptable to me.. that is the purpose of this, to find out the length I have to go to make sure I don't overshoot the temp by a mile..

Preventive precautions I suppose..

You sound like a guy who values a certain level of precision. Have you considered getting a used fridge/freezer and plugging it into a controller box using an STC-1000? That way, you tape the sensor to the fermenter, set the temp on the controller and it maintains it for you right where you need it (+/- 0.5*C is where I have the tolerance on mine). It's by far the best $100 I've ever spent on brew gear.

 

[DrNecropolis]

You sound like a guy who values a certain level of precision. Have you considered getting a used fridge/freezer and plugging it into a controller box using an STC-1000? That way, you tape the sensor to the fermenter, set the temp on the controller and it maintains it for you right where you need it (+/- 0.5*C is where I have the tolerance on mine). It's by far the best $100 I've ever spent on brew gear.

Having to maintain precise levels in a fish tank is something that has never left me..

I can break out one of the dozen ranco's I have and all that jazz, but these days space is a premium.. I'm trying to find the smallest footprint that's effective right now, if its not possible then of course I will have to go a bigger route and eat in to the space..

But so far,

Ambient temperature in the room is right at 70, my sugar water junk is definitely rolling right now, the internal temperature was 76.3..

I added a container with cold water, towel around the carboy and a fan and over the past 2 hours its came down to about 74.. I think it might drop another degree or so, and that's without adding ice bottles to the water.. with ice on a constant rotation I can *maybe* get it down to 70.. that would be fine with me..

Little back story.. I live in GA and its brutal in the summer here sometimes and over fall,winter and spring the temp won't be as big of an issue..

The easiest worst case scenario I have planned out is, I have a 1/4hp chiller for fishtanks.. I can always cool the water in that container by about 25 degrees.. lol

But those things consume an obscene amount of power..

 

[scaffologist]

While you have that sugar water brewed up, you may as well find a buddy with some equipment to turn that into something usable

 

[DrNecropolis]

While you have that sugar water brewed up, you may as well find a buddy with some equipment to turn that into something usable

Don't think it hasn't come up already with more than 2 people I know..

This stuff is bound to be infected.. I didn't sanitize anything, have a floating thermometer hanging from yarn into it, I open and check several times a day, etc..

Although, distilling it might remove all the baddies..

Maybe a repurpose for the wort chiller..

LoL

 

[scaffologist]

Don't think it hasn't come up already with more than 2 people I know..

This stuff is bound to be infected.. I didn't sanitize anything, have a floating thermometer hanging from yarn into it, I open and check several times a day, etc..

Although, distilling it might remove all the baddies..

Maybe a repurpose for the wort chiller..

LoL

All you would need then is a keg, a swagelok fitting and a welder. Not that I would know though. Lol.

You ever see turbo yeast in action? 2 packs of yeast can eat up 32lbs of sugar pretty in about 3-4 days. Looks like a boiling pot of water.

 

[BigFloyd]

I can break out one of the dozen ranco's I have and all that jazz, but these days space is a premium.. I'm trying to find the smallest footprint that's effective right now, if its not possible then of course I will have to go a bigger route and eat in to the space..

Gosh, since you already have the controllers, if you can figure out the space, a fermenter fridge or freezer would put you in great shape.

Go for it. I wouldn't be able to brew anything worth drinking much of the year here in TX without good ferment temp control.

 

[DrNecropolis]

Gosh, since you already have the controllers, if you can figure out the space, a fermenter fridge or freezer would put you in great shape.

Go for it. I wouldn't be able to brew anything worth drinking much of the year here in TX without good ferment temp control.

I can always move one of my gun safes and create room, just a matter of moving one of those monsters somewhere else..

Without the ice, I'm down to 71 with a swamp cooler.. with ice I think I will be golden for now, the time I have between now and next summer will give me more than ample time to work out a long term solution to this summer issue..

I'm thinking a small chest freezer.. I need to buy one anyway for a keezer, might as well buy 2..

 

[DrNecropolis]

Overnight I ended up at 68.8 without ice..

I moved the fan closer, pulled the towel up onto the carboy a little better (should probably use a small towel, the one I am using is super thick and big)..

I did notice with the door closed in the room I'm using, the ambient temp increased by 3 degrees.. with the door open and fan closer and all that jazz, I'm where I am..

I think with the ice (which I'm doing now, I have two 1qt bottles in there) I will be in the butter zone, even if the fermentation temp is only 5 degrees warmer and a batch ferments an extra 5 over what it is now, I should still be in decent shape..