Fermentation temp controller question

[Gtrfrk182]

I recently purchased a chest freezer and an inkbird temp controller.
I plan on brewing with safeale us-05 this weekend

I called my lhbs to ask what temperature I should set it to if I wanted to ferment at 70.

He told me to set it to 68, and make sure the differential is no less than 66 and no more than 72.

Now I’m home and looking at it, would I be setting the cooling differential to 72 and heating to 66? Or do I have that reverse?

Also what should the timer be set to in order to make sure the compressor doesn’t get burned out? I’ve read various opinions

Thanks

 

[yoop89]

I recently purchased a chest freezer and an inkbird temp controller.

Which controller do you have?

 

[mongoose33]

Where are you placing the temperature probe of the controller?

You want the controller to be sensing the temp of the beer, not the ambient environment around the fermenter. Two ways you can do this. One is use a thermowell; the other, more common way, is to place the temp probe against the fermenter where the wort is, cover it with a piece of insulation so it draws the temp from the wort/beer, not the ambient environment, and hold that insulation in place with string, bungee cord, strap, whatever.

When you do that, you set the controller at the temp at which you want the wort/beer to ferment. No offsets--just use the actual temp you want. When I do US-05, I'm usually fermenting at 64 degrees, and that's what I set my Inkbird at.

Now, I'm presuming you also have a heat mat or fermwrap or similar so you can warm as well as cool the fermenting wort. If you don't, get one. Amazon sells seedling mats that work just fine for aboutr $12-14. I have one of those, as well as a fermwrap.

This is what I'm talking about: a piece of foam into which I've cut a channel to accommodate the temp probe. Then it gets held against the side of the fermenter.



You can see a pink and a blue piece of foam holding the probes against the fermenters. Nothing holy about foam; styrofoam will work, a folded-over towel, whatever you have so the temp probe is sensing the temp of the wort in the fermenter, not the outside atmosphere.

Yeast is exothermic, and as such will produce a temperature increase of 5-10 degrees above ambient, so you want to measure the wort, not the air around it.

 

[Griffin495]

They say (and they say a lot) that fermenting temperatures can be as much as 5 degrees higher than what a probe taped on or a thermometer stuck to the outside of a fermenter reads. I've had good luck setting my inkbird at 63F with a +/-1 degree differential. IN fact I've always kept mine set at +/-1 differential since I got it.

 

[mongoose33]

They say (and they say a lot) that fermenting temperatures can be as much as 5 degrees higher than what a probe taped on or a thermometer stuck to the outside of a fermenter reads. I've had good luck setting my inkbird at 63F with a +/-1 degree differential. IN fact I've always kept mine set at +/-1 differential since I got it.

I don't know who "they" are--and I've never come across anyone saying the above--but you have to insulate the probe from ambient, using foam or other insulation. Like the pics above. Nobody I know advocates just sticking a controller probe on the side of the fermenter with no insulation. Nobody.

 

[Griffin495]

Sorry I didn't clarify better in my post. I left off that you need to insulate the probe in some way. I guess what I was trying to get across is those sticker thermometers the home brew stores sell you and stick on the outside of your fermenter. Those can be off by as much as 5 or 10 degrees than what the actual wort in the fermenter is. Definitely insulate your probe. Sorry again, morning coffee has not kicked in yet.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Taping/ strapping/insulating how ever you do it is a PITA

Get a $12 thermowell and a rubber stopper. So much easier plus the temp probe is IN the beer. Cant get more accurate than that.

set the Inkbird to the temp you want the beer. 68
Set the difference to 1 deg.
Set the setting that controls when the fridge comes on (forget what they call it) to max. Probably 10. Fridge compressors dont like kicking on and off constantly. This setting saves yours fridge from cycling to often

You beer temp should be 68 BEFORE taping on or using a thermowell.
The reason is the liquid temp takes way longer to adjust than air. Say your off by 5 degs. The fridge will just keep running and running till the liquid temps comes down to set temp. I'll takes hours and by then the freezer will be just that a freezer at whatever its lowest setting gets to, like zero degrees.

Same cold for cold crashing. When your beer is at 68 and you want to get it to 33 for a cold crash if you have the probe taped or in the beer the fridge will never stop running for like 24 hours till the beer gets to 33. By then your freezer is a freezer and a block of ice. You could over chill/freezer your beer.

The ONLY time the probe should be attached to the fermenter is during active fermentation. All other times leave the probe hanging in the air in the fridge at whatever set temp you want it. If the beer is conditioning it really doesnt where the probe is.
I guess a better way to say is NEVER have probe attached/in the beer while making temps changes...just leave the probe hanging in the air. The beer will adjust to the set air temp at its own rate.

 

[mongoose33]

Taping/ strapping/insulating how ever you do it is a PITA

I've found it to be so easy it never dawned on me it is a PITA.

Get a $12 thermowell and a rubber stopper. So much easier plus the temp probe is IN the beer. Cant get more accurate than that.

No, but neither are you taking any particular hurt in putting it on the side of the fermenter. And as far as accuracy...think on that a second. The probe is in the middle of the beer; the chilling and warming is (by necessity) applied to the outside of the fermenter. How much different in temp is the beer at the edge of the ferementer than in the middle where whatever chilling or heating will reach it....last?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I've found it to be so easy it never dawned on me it is a PITA.



No, but neither are you taking any particular hurt in putting it on the side of the fermenter. And as far as accuracy...think on that a second. The probe is in the middle of the beer; the chilling and warming is (by necessity) applied to the outside of the fermenter. How much different in temp is the beer at the edge of the ferementer than in the middle where whatever chilling or heating will reach it....last?

I tried bungee cords and ratchet straps. I always wondered if air was getting in under whatever I used to insulate. Plus like I said I move the probe around during the entire cycle in the freezer. Way easier (for me anyway) to just stick the probe down a thermowell. I like knowing the temp reading is from IN the beer....to each there own

The beers must be moving around in the fermenter from convection I'm sure its pretty even temps in there. Not worried about that in the least

 

[Gtrfrk182]

Which controller do you have?

The 308 model

 

[Gtrfrk182]

Where are you placing the temperature probe of the controller?

You want the controller to be sensing the temp of the beer, not the ambient environment around the fermenter. Two ways you can do this. One is use a thermowell; the other, more common way, is to place the temp probe against the fermenter where the wort is, cover it with a piece of insulation so it draws the temp from the wort/beer, not the ambient environment, and hold that insulation in place with string, bungee cord, strap, whatever.

When you do that, you set the controller at the temp at which you want the wort/beer to ferment. No offsets--just use the actual temp you want. When I do US-05, I'm usually fermenting at 64 degrees, and that's what I set my Inkbird at.

Now, I'm presuming you also have a heat mat or fermwrap or similar so you can warm as well as cool the fermenting wort. If you don't, get one. Amazon sells seedling mats that work just fine for aboutr $12-14. I have one of those, as well as a fermwrap.

This is what I'm talking about: a piece of foam into which I've cut a channel to accommodate the temp probe. Then it gets held against the side of the fermenter.

View attachment 624989

You can see a pink and a blue piece of foam holding the probes against the fermenters. Nothing holy about foam; styrofoam will work, a folded-over towel, whatever you have so the temp probe is sensing the temp of the wort in the fermenter, not the outside atmosphere.

Yeast is exothermic, and as such will produce a temperature increase of 5-10 degrees above ambient, so you want to measure the wort, not the air around it.

View attachment 624990

Thanks for the info!

I don’t have a heating mat, but I’m assuming it’s because of the freezer gets too cold the mat is right there to keep it steady? I assumed I’d be okay with the temp controller keeping it in a certain temp range.

Thanks

 

[Gtrfrk182]

Taping/ strapping/insulating how ever you do it is a PITA

Get a $12 thermowell and a rubber stopper. So much easier plus the temp probe is IN the beer. Cant get more accurate than that.

set the Inkbird to the temp you want the beer. 68
Set the difference to 1 deg.
Set the setting that controls when the fridge comes on (forget what they call it) to max. Probably 10. Fridge compressors dont like kicking on and off constantly. This setting saves yours fridge from cycling to often

You beer temp should be 68 BEFORE taping on or using a thermowell.
The reason is the liquid temp takes way longer to adjust than air. Say your off by 5 degs. The fridge will just keep running and running till the liquid temps comes down to set temp. I'll takes hours and by then the freezer will be just that a freezer at whatever its lowest setting gets to, like zero degrees.

Same cold for cold crashing. When your beer is at 68 and you want to get it to 33 for a cold crash if you have the probe taped or in the beer the fridge will never stop running for like 24 hours till the beer gets to 33. By then your freezer is a freezer and a block of ice. You could over chill/freezer your beer.

The ONLY time the probe should be attached to the fermenter is during active fermentation. All other times leave the probe hanging in the air in the fridge at whatever set temp you want it. If the beer is conditioning it really doesnt where the probe is.
I guess a better way to say is NEVER have probe attached/in the beer while making temps changes...just leave the probe hanging in the air. The beer will adjust to the set air temp at its own rate.

Good info, thanks!

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks for the info!

I don’t have a heating mat, but I’m assuming it’s because of the freezer gets too cold the mat is right there to keep it steady? I assumed I’d be okay with the temp controller keeping it in a certain temp range.

Thanks

It's mostly because you want to control temps in both directions as needed. It's usually advisable to raise the temp toward the end of fermentation to allow the yeast to clean up after itself. If you're brewing a lager, then you'd likely want to raise the temp at the end for a diacetyl rest.

Easy to do w/ the controller, just up the temp. The mats are plenty cheap enough. You can even use the straps/bungee cords you use to hold the temp probe to the fermenter to hold the heat mat there too.

Here are a couple pics showing that. You can see the foam holding the temp probes against the fermenters, and the heat mats wrapped around them. In the pic with two fermenters, the seedling/reptile mat is on the left, the fermwrap on the right. The fermwrap is a little overkill for most cases--it's 40 watts, while the seedling/reptile mat is, IIRC, 18 or 20 watts. But the smaller one works fine.

 

[SpeedYellow]

...I guess a better way to say is NEVER have probe attached/in the beer while making temps changes...just leave the probe hanging in the air. The beer will adjust to the set air temp at its own rate.

Nothing wrong with leaving the probe in the thermowell during temperature changes. I routinely toss 75F wort in my freezer fermentation chamber with probe in the thermowell set to 50F then let the freezer go full blast to chill the wort. Yes, like you said it does overshoot, but only by around 2F (I use a Brew Bucket). So really a non-issue. For smaller temperature changes the overshoot is of course less. In fact, I like the overshoot because it's common to pitch lager yeast a couple degrees cooler than you ferment.

 

[day_trippr]

Somehow I managed to power-through the epic challenge of wrapping these velcro straps

Cheers!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Nothing wrong with leaving the probe in the thermowell during temperature changes. I routinely toss 75F wort in my freezer fermentation chamber with probe in the thermowell set to 50F then let the freezer go full blast to chill the wort. Yes, like you said it does overshoot, but only by around 2F (I use a Brew Bucket). So really a non-issue. For smaller temperature changes the overshoot is of course less. In fact, I like the overshoot because it's common to pitch lager yeast a couple degrees cooler than you ferment.

The first time i used my chest freezer I left the probe in the thermowell and the airlocks froze solid while cold crashing. First and last time I left the probe in the thermowell while crashing. Easy enough to stick the probe in after reaching target temps without the issue of an overshoot

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I recently purchased a chest freezer and an inkbird temp controller.
I plan on brewing with safeale us-05 this weekend

I called my lhbs to ask what temperature I should set it to if I wanted to ferment at 70.

He told me to set it to 68, and make sure the differential is no less than 66 and no more than 72.

Now I’m home and looking at it, would I be setting the cooling differential to 72 and heating to 66? Or do I have that reverse?

Also what should the timer be set to in order to make sure the compressor doesn’t get burned out? I’ve read various opinions

Thanks

Did you get your answer in this thread? I have the same controller and I tape the probe to the side of my fermenter with some foil tape and that seems to work fine. I don't see a need for a thermowell.

As far as the settings go, you set a target temp and then a heating and a cooling differential. Do you have a heater? I have played around some with the differential, but now I have them both set at 1 degree. When cooling more than a few degrees, the temp seems to overshoot, but then the heater will keep it from dropping too far below the target.

As far as temps go, my preference for a yeast like US-05 (I normally use WLP001 or 1056) is to set it to a temp around 64F or 66F, then once the fermentation starts to slow (after 2 to 3 days of active fermentation) boost the temp up to around 72F.

I have my delay set to 5 minutes, but I cannot say for sure if this is the optimal setting.

 

[Gtrfrk182]

Did you get your answer in this thread? I have the same controller and I tape the probe to the side of my fermenter with some foil tape and that seems to work fine. I don't see a need for a thermowell.

As far as the settings go, you set a target temp and then a heating and a cooling differential. Do you have a heater? I have played around some with the differential, but now I have them both set at 1 degree. When cooling more than a few degrees, the temp seems to overshoot, but then the heater will keep it from dropping too far below the target.

As far as temps go, my preference for a yeast like US-05 (I normally use WLP001 or 1056) is to set it to a temp around 64F or 66F, then once the fermentation starts to slow (after 2 to 3 days of active fermentation) boost the temp up to around 72F.

I have my delay set to 5 minutes, but I cannot say for sure if this is the optimal setting.

Thanks for the response. I have taken numerous opinions into consideration and I do think the best thing at this time would be to tape the sensor to the side of the bucket then remove it when I cold crash it.

As far as temperatures go, I’m still playing with it as it’s not going so well. Earlier today I set it at 68 with +/- 1 degree and the delay at 10 minutes, and it was down to 63 after a few hours.
I changed the delay to 5 minutes to see what that does.

I don’t have a heater but that might be next up on the purchase list.

Thanks!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

As far as temperatures go, I’m still playing with it as it’s not going so well. Earlier today I set it at 68 with +/- 1 degree and the delay at 10 minutes, and it was down to 63 after a few hours.
I changed the delay to 5 minutes to see what that does.

If its set to 68 how are you at 63. Somethings wrong. Cant be that cold this time of the year in Orlando.

Whats the room temp

 

[Gtrfrk182]

If its set to 68 how are you at 63. Somethings wrong. Cant be that cold this time of the year in Orlando.

Whats the room temp

House is set for 72. I woke up this morning and checked it and it was pretty much spot on after changing the delay to 5 minutes the night before. It does seem to favor -2 degrees, even though I have it set for only +/- 1*

I think I’ll have to invest in a heating pad or some jacket.

 

[wmubronco]

No means to hi-jack, however with anyone running a temp controller (STC or brewpi) to control Imbera, TGM, Beverage-Air, etc., during fermentation control, do you have the wall outlet cord from cooler directly plugged into your temp controller, or are you hardwiring into the compressor/fridge power?

I have the former, but something tells me I should do the latter in order to extend the life of the cooler, or make it more efficient? Coffee hasn't kicked in yet....

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Somehow I managed to power-through the epic challenge of wrapping these velcro straps

You my friend are Bad A$$

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Could you cold crash slowly by dropping temps a few degrees at a time or does that defeat the purpose? The only thing I know about the fridge is that it keeps my beer cold. Is it bad for the fridge to run an extended time if you are cold crashing in one leap?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

House is set for 72. I woke up this morning and checked it and it was pretty much spot on after changing the delay to 5 minutes the night before. It does seem to favor -2 degrees, even though I have it set for only +/- 1*

I think I’ll have to invest in a heating pad or some jacket.

THe deley isnt going to make a bit of difference. Whether the fridge kicks on in 5 minutes or 10 minutes the beer temp isnt changing in a 5 minute difference time frame. It's strictly for the fridge.

I still dont see how if the temp is set to 68 and your room temp is 72 how your beer got to 63. It's just not possible unless you were trying to adjust the beer temp with the probe attached to the fermenter and overshot your temps like I mentioned.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Could you cold crash slowly by dropping temps a few degrees at a time or does that defeat the purpose? The only thing I know about the fridge is that it keeps my beer cold. Is it bad for the fridge to run an extended time if you are cold crashing in one leap?

just leave the probe hanging and set temp to 33. I would think it would be worse for the fridge to start and stop as you lower the temp than just to have the temp drop as the freezer was intended

 

[Alex4mula]

...

Same cold for cold crashing. When your beer is at 68 and you want to get it to 33 for a cold crash if you have the probe taped or in the beer the fridge will never stop running for like 24 hours till the beer gets to 33. By then your freezer is a freezer and a block of ice. You could over chill/freezer your beer....

This is true. I always have a bottle of water in my cold crash freezer to monitor freeze. One day I put the probe inside the thermowell and set it to 33°F. Caught it on time but I cold see beer was in the direction of getting to freeze. Now I leave it outside. It just takes a little longer but it gets there (I use Tilt). I usually cold crash 2-7 days. Also I find that electrical tape is great to attach my heat pad to gall or SS.

 

[Gtrfrk182]

THe deley isnt going to make a bit of difference. Whether the fridge kicks on in 5 minutes or 10 minutes the beer temp isnt changing in a 5 minute difference time frame. It's strictly for the fridge.

I still dont see how if the temp is set to 68 and your room temp is 72 how your beer got to 63. It's just not possible unless you were trying to adjust the beer temp with the probe attached to the fermenter and overshot your temps like I mentioned.

I’m Not sure either. The thermostat says the temp is 61.2 (still set at 68 +/- 1) however my digital thermometer inside reads 65.3