Fermentation can take 24 to 72 hrs to show visible signs.

[Daveyg]

I had no activity that I could see in the air lock it has been three weeks and I will bottle it today hopefully it is not ruined and if it is on to the next one. Already bought my second recipe kit, doing a Brooklyn summer ale assuming summer ever gets here in CT.

 

[elninbo]

So here's my issue: brewed this IPA on friday night, chilled the wort in a water bath, but then had to cover and let it sit on the counter for about 3 hours (life happens). Came back, racked to the fermenter, aerated vigorously, pitched the yeast, stored in closet at 64F. Here's the recipe:
Yields 2 gallons
3.3lbs golden pale lme
1 lb sparkling amber dme (late add)
.4oz amarillo @ 60 .2oz columbus @15
.3oz ahranum @ 60. .4oz cascade @5
.1oz columbus @60. .2oz amarillo@5
.4oz cascade @ 15. .2oz ahtanum @5
.3oz centennial @15. 1oz simcoe 7days (dry hop)
1pkg wyeast 1275 thames valley

Og 1.083 ---> fg 1.019
Ibu: 97

Couple of things: i don't know what happened but my actual og reading was MUCH lower @ 1.068. I did have a boilover but I didn't think it would effect it that much.
My second issue is that I'm worried the smackpack wasn't viable. I let it incubate at 72F for about 5hours, no swelling at all. When I poured it into my pyrex, it seemed...lifeless. Smelled strange too. This is my first time using 1275 and I've read about pretty large lag times. I think my pitch rate was good for this beer with 100billion being sufficient for 2 gallons @1.083, let alone 1.068.

36 hours later I'm seeing no signs of anything happening at all. I'm going to wait but I must admit I don't think this yeast was viable. Manufacture date of oct 19 2014.

Do I RDWHAHB or start to think about needing to repitch?

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Do I RDWHAHB or start to think about needing to repitch?

I'd wait till after 72hrs. If you are concerned you could bump the temp up a bit. 64 is close to the bottom temp recommended for that strain. But again I'd wait the 72hrs and I think you'll be fine.

 

[Theheadsn]

Just did my first chocolate porter, decided to do a yeast starter this time. Damn did it help. I had activity in less then 6 hours. Checked it this morning (so about 12 hours I pitched) and I needed to switch the airlock with a blowoff line because there was so much activity. So I'm kinda sold on the whole yeast starter thing for sure

 

[unionrdr]

I've gotten beers to start visibly fermenting in 3 hours when rehydrating dry yeast. Pitching it at high krausen (when it's still foaming) & within 10 degrees of current wort temp will get it going quickly as well. The same temp rule works well with starters after settling & decanting the excess liquid.

 

[elninbo]

I'd wait till after 72hrs. If you are concerned you could bump the temp up a bit. 64 is close to the bottom temp recommended for that strain. But again I'd wait the 72hrs and I think you'll be fine.

Good call. Fermentation has started. Almost right at 72 hours. Thanks.

 

[Twotaureanbrewing]

I made a yeast starter for a 1.095 OG ale, oxygenated and fermentation started within 12hrs. Shortest lag time yet! I started fermenting on the 12th and still going. Have 1/2 tube to milk jug and bubbles are still coming out(about every 10secs). Never had a beer go this long. Do big beers have a longer ferment time? Have not taken a gravity reading as fermenting is still in progress.

 

[kombat]

If your fermentation takes 3 days to get started, is there any hope that it'll still be a good beer? Doesn't that usually suggest some extremely stressed yeast (too cold, underpitched, insufficient oxygen, whatever), which will lead to off-flavours? I've had fermentations finish in 72 hours. If one took 72 hours just to get started, I'd be pretty apprehensive about the quality of the resulting beer.

 

[cbmikey]

If your fermentation takes 3 days to get started, is there any hope that it'll still be a good beer? Doesn't that usually suggest some extremely stressed yeast (too cold, underpitched, insufficient oxygen, whatever), which will lead to off-flavours? I've had fermentations finish in 72 hours. If one took 72 hours just to get started, I'd be pretty apprehensive about the quality of the resulting beer.

Up to 72 hours is definitely not unheard of. And there is no way you have had fermentation complete in 72 hours. Impossible unless you started with 1.01 wort. You may have had gotten krausen fall within 72 but primary fermentation takes at *least* a week.

No off flavors will result, biggest threat is from infection and even that is pretty slim if you sanitize properly.

 

[kombat]

And there is no way you have had fermentation complete in 72 hours. Impossible unless you started with 1.01 wort. You may have had gotten krausen fall within 72 but primary fermentation takes at *least* a week.

I see you haven't met my friend, Mr. S-04 English Ale Yeast.

 

[unionrdr]

The time fermentation visibly started in 3 hours was rehydrated S-04 in an ESB. It wasn't done fermenting till 10 days in, but it was already settling out at that time. Usually in 72 hours, only initial fermentation is done. It'll then slowly, uneventfully creep down to a stable FG. I then give it another 3-7 days to settle out clear or slightly misty before priming & bottling.

 

[B8A_AMYLASE]

I like to pitch low temps so fermentation starts slow and the temp doesnt spike. Hate off flavors. Although I will say the longer it takes to start fermentation the more likely it is for bacteria to settle in...

 

[Aarong2008]

When should you start to worry? I made a lager Sunday with a 1.034 og and used an American lager wyeast smack pack and haven't seen any activity. Should I repitch? I did a 5 gallon batch and split it up and used saflager 34/70 and that started fermenting he next day.

 

[kombat]

When should you start to worry? I made a lager Sunday with a 1.034 og and used an American lager wyeast smack pack and haven't seen any activity. Should I repitch? I did a 5 gallon batch and split it up and used saflager 34/70 and that started fermenting he next day.

Can you clarify? Are you saying you brewed a 5 gallon batch and divided it into two 2.5 gallon batches, and that you pitched a smack pack into one and saflager 34/70 in the other? Did you make a starter for the liquid yeast? Did you rehydrate the dry yeast? How did you aerate the batches? At what temperature are they currently? Have you checked the gravity of either one?

 

[Aarong2008]

Can you clarify? Are you saying you brewed a 5 gallon batch and divided it into two 2.5 gallon batches, and that you pitched a smack pack into one and saflager 34/70 in the other? Did you make a starter for the liquid yeast? Did you rehydrate the dry yeast? How did you aerate the batches? At what temperature are they currently? Have you checked the gravity of either one?

Yes, I made a 5 gallon batch and split it up. I did not rehydrate the dry yeast. The instructions just said to pitch them and that batch is fermenting. The snack pack did not have a starter. I just popped the pack inside of it and let it sit at room temperature for 3 hours and it didn't swell much. The smack pack was 3 months past the suggested use by date. I used a aquarium.fish pump and I shook each one also to aerate them.

 

[kombat]

Excellent, that's very helpful. At what temperature are you fermenting the beers?

Regardless, you significantly underpitched the one with the liquid yeast. The rule of thumb for pitching rates is 4 billion cells per 5 gallon batch per point of original gravity, for ales. For lagers, double it. In your case, for a 2.5 gallon batch of 1.034 wort and lager yeast, the optimal yeast cell count would have been:

4 billion * 34 * 0.5 * 2 = 136 billion cells

1 smack pack, fresh from the factory and 100% viable, provides 100 billion cells. Since yours was 3 months past its expiration, your viability was likely abysmally low, likely in the 30% range, meaning you pitched 30 billion cells, or barely 1/5th of what you should have pitched. The yeast are stressed and are struggling to multiply to the necessary cell mass. I'm sure it will still ferment, but it's going to take a while, and you'll likely notice some distinctly "un-lager-like" flavours in the resulting beer. Next time, make a starter, using a site like Mr. Malty to calculate the appropriate size starter.

Lagers also need lots of oxygen. Shaking/splashing/stirring/aerating with a pump are more than adequate for ales, but to truly have a good lager fermentation, you'll need to consider an oxygenation stone. You can still make lagers with what you've got, they just won't be as "clean" if you'd hit it with pure oxygen.

Lagers are a special kind of beast, they're much more sensitive and temperamental than ales, but they can be very rewarding when you get it right.

Also, get in the habit of rehydrating your dry yeast. Here's the manufacturer's data sheet for the yeast you used, which explains their recommended rehydration procedure. Sprinkling dry yeast directly into the wort can reduce cell viability by up to 50%, and as I just outlined, lagers can't afford any reduction in yeast cell count.

 

[Aarong2008]

Excellent, that's very helpful. At what temperature are you fermenting the beers?

Regardless, you significantly underpitched the one with the liquid yeast. The rule of thumb for pitching rates is 4 billion cells per 5 gallon batch per point of original gravity, for ales. For lagers, double it. In your case, for a 2.5 gallon batch of 1.034 wort and lager yeast, the optimal yeast cell count would have been:

4 billion * 34 * 0.5 * 2 = 136 billion cells

1 smack pack, fresh from the factory and 100% viable, provides 100 billion cells. Since yours was 3 months past its expiration, your viability was likely abysmally low, likely in the 30% range, meaning you pitched 30 billion cells, or barely 1/5th of what you should have pitched. The yeast are stressed and are struggling to multiply to the necessary cell mass. I'm sure it will still ferment, but it's going to take a while, and you'll likely notice some distinctly "un-lager-like" flavours in the resulting beer. Next time, make a starter, using a site like Mr. Malty to calculate the appropriate size starter.

Lagers also need lots of oxygen. Shaking/splashing/stirring/aerating with a pump are more than adequate for ales, but to truly have a good lager fermentation, you'll need to consider an oxygenation stone. You can still make lagers with what you've got, they just won't be as "clean" if you'd hit it with pure oxygen.

Lagers are a special kind of beast, they're much more sensitive and temperamental than ales, but they can be very rewarding when you get it right.

Also, get in the habit of rehydrating your dry yeast. Here's the manufacturer's data sheet for the yeast you used, which explains their recommended rehydration procedure. Sprinkling dry yeast directly into the wort can reduce cell viability by up to 50%, and as I just outlined, lagers can't afford any reduction in yeast cell count.

Thank you for the detailed response. This was my first lager and I have learned a lot from what you said. There is no activity in the airlock with the liquid yeast used, if it stays that way can I assume that the smack pack was too old? Or because of the low cell count, it won't cause the air lock to bubble? Should I add more yeast?

 

[kombat]

It's likely too late to add any more yeast, I suspect you'll start to see some activity in the next couple of days, and at that point it will look like a normal fermentation. They're just taking some extra time to get going, because of their sub-optimal initial population. I probably wouldn't do anything with it at this point, just hold the temperature around 50-52° F and exercise some patience. You'll have a very valuable opportunity to compare the two batches when they're finished so you can see how the differences manifest in the flavour profiles.

 

[Aarong2008]

That is a good point, I will let it ferment out so i can taste the differences in both of them. Thank you once again for your great help.

 

[brewmesomewater]

That is a good point, I will let it ferment out so i can taste the differences in both of them. Thank you once again for your great help.

Did you end up seeing any activity?

Even if it was 3 months past it's prime, properly stored those smack packs will show some activity.

I wouldn't recomend rehydrating a smack pack, it would be like reinventing the wheel, the yeast inside is surrounded by yeast nutrients just waiting to be popped so it can start it's feeding frenzy.

Look for krausen, no bubbling doesn't mean ****. I've used a smack pack and literally completed fermentation by the time I came home 3 days later. Take a gravity sample if you haven't already and relaxxxxx man, you're making beer, enjoy it!

And on another note there are tables out there that show how many yeast cells are recomended per OG. I recomend buying 'How to brew beer' to get your toes wet into the world of homebrew.

 

[justingreenwood]

I'm brewing my first batch of beer and I'm quite worried about it (as most people probably are their first time). I brewed it over 3 days ago and I haven't seen any bubbles. I opened up the bucket and the attached image is what I saw. Can anyone help me know what to do? Should I add more yeast or move it somewhere over 73 degrees f.? ... I'm just not sure what to do. If it helps, I'm using the "True Brew Bavarian Hefeweizen" kit.

 

[unionrdr]

That's left over krausen all over the place in there. Perfectly normal. You must have a Brewer's Best style bucket with no lid seal?

 

[justingreenwood]

That's left over krausen all over the place in there. Perfectly normal. You must have a Brewer's Best style bucket with no lid seal?

Yes, Exactly. I guess I should get some better lids. Thanks!

 

[Firewalker11]

The seal line looks pretty good to me and the krausen line looks like it fermented fine too.

We all feel like it failed the first time or like me on my 6th!

Take the advice of those that have all the experience, wait it out, it will be fine.

 

[justingreenwood]

The seal line looks pretty good to me and the krausen line looks like it fermented fine too.

We all feel like it failed the first time or like me on my 6th!

Take the advice of those that have all the experience, wait it out, it will be fine.

Thanks much for the reassurance. You guys are awesome. I was really worried for a bunch of reasons. First, cooling down the wort in the ice bath took forever and I'm not sure if I waited long enough. The temperature was uneven when I moved the thermometer around. I also was following what I read in this "How to Brew" book about re-hydrating yeast with pre-boiled water around 90-100 degrees - and of course I was afraid that the high temperatures killed the yeast. I'm not type to give up though - I'm going to keep trying and trying again until I'm comfortable enough to make my own crazy recipes. Thanks again!

 

[unionrdr]

Well, I could never find a lid with a seal on it to fit the BB-style ale pails. Mine leaked wort out around the lid & down onto those ribs around the top during initial fermentation. Thus not a lot of bubbling in the airlock. I always thought the reverse could also be true, sucking air under the lid during cool down after initial fermentation is done, creating a partial vacuum.

 

[Firewalker11]

Well, I could never find a lid with a seal on it to fit the BB-style ale pails. Mine leaked wort out around the lid & down onto those ribs around the top during initial fermentation. Thus not a lot of bubbling in the airlock. I always thought the reverse could also be true, sucking air under the lid during cool down after initial fermentation is done, creating a partial vacuum.

I'm sorry that you don't have a good store around you for the buckets. Northern Brewer and Midwest Brewing both have the lids with the seal, hole and grommet for the lock stock.

I gotta say that us in Minnesota are spoiled, three national chains in the Twin Cities for brewing supplies and Beverage Elements for kegs etc.

 

[unionrdr]

I got a bad infection in the Brewer's Best ale pail, so I pitched it & bought the shorter, 7.9 gallon bucket with lid seal & spigot from Midwest to replace it. I've got my Irish red PM in it now.

 

[kombat]

Well, I finally had to pitch more yeast into a batch of beer. After over 100 batches, I finally had one that took so long to start, that I had to act. Last Saturday, I brewed a Standard American Lager, and pitched a jar of S-23 yeast I had collected from an earlier batch of the same beer at the beginning of February. I would normally have pitched 2 jars, but I only had the one left. I know this yeast takes a couple of days to get going, so when I still didn't see any activity on Tuesday, I wasn't worried.

But by Wednesday, there were still no signs of life.

Last night, still nothing. So I took a gravity sample. It was unchanged, at 1.041. So I pulled the trigger and dumped in another jar of S-23 (half a cake) from a Schwartzbier I brewed in April. I was hoping to avoid this, because I was worried that the roasted barley character in the Schwartzbier yeast would taint the Standard Lager, but I didn't feel like I had much choice. It had been 5 full days.

No activity yet this morning, but again, this yeast takes a while to get going. I expect to see some action by tomorrow night.

 

[ncbrewer]

Kombat - Please post the results. I think I'm almost as anxious about this as you are.