Feeling defeated

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FWIW, the size of book previews (at online book stores) can be generous - especially if one "thinks outside the (amazon) box".

OTOH, many home brewing ebooks are often the same price as a craft beer (or two).

 

[Brewer dad]

I just used the filtered water from my fridge. I drink the water all day, and I had read that if I enjoyed it, it was likely fine for brewing.

FWIW I thought the same thing at first with mine. My water issue was initially more apparent to me in high OG beers. After learning more about it I've learned to "pick my water out", so to speak, in other beers I made. So having drinkable water doesn't always mean it'll make the best beer.

 

[mendelec]

I'll add a several thoughts to the discussion. Water, oxidation, and expiration dates seem likely the most likely issues to look into further. All good points being made here. Oxidation, water, and technique are likely your biggest issues.

My first question is do you have equipment other than what came with the Mr. Beer kit? I played with a Mr. Beer kit many (many) moons ago, long before I actually got into home brewing. It is physically possible to make decent beer with one, but you are hamstringing yourself with the equipment if that's what you're using. If memory serves, the Mr. Beer setup doesn't even have an airlock and just relies on a poorly sealing lid to let the CO2 from fermentation escape. You mentioned 3 weeks in one of those before bottling. You can do that in a decent normal setup, but in a Mr. Beer, I suspect you're looking at significant oxidation due to air coming in that poor seal. Think about wet cardboard. If you're tasting that, oxidation is at least part of your problem.
I'm probably going to sound snobby, but I'd put the Mr. beer setup on craigslist and get better equipment. You an go surprisingly cheap if you go BIAB, shop around some, score used equipment off craigslist, and/or enjoy doing a bit of diy. Great beer may take some extra equipment (and practice), but pretty darn good beer can be made with the basics and some attention to detail. If you don't have one, get yourself a fermentation vessel that seals well and has an actual airlock. Plastic, glass, whatever. You have options. Some are better than others. Glass is probably better in the long run, but a plastic fermentation bucket will do the job too. I'll say it again, scrap the Mr. beer fermentation vessel.

Second, patience. You waited 3 weeks to bottle, so you have more than enough patience. I'm going to suggest that as a beginner, you are far far better off not checking the progress of the fermentation. Just don't. Every time you open the lid, you introduce oxygen, risk contamination, and reduce the quality of your final product. And yes, repeatedly opening the container to check the S.G. absolutely can have a huge affect on the flavor, particularly when your equipment and technique are suboptimal (as they almost certainly is at this stage). Check your O.G. and your F.G. and that's it. When you get better with your technique and have better ways to check the progress of your fermentation, then you can consider it again. But for now, just stop it. Your eyeballs and the activity in the airlock will tell you it's fermenting and when it ain't. Wait a week more and bottle it. Don't open the fermentation vessel until you are confident that it is time to bottle. Make sure you're using a decent fermentation vessel and resist the temptation to keep cracking it open to check on it and I expect that will fix half your issues.

Third, fermentation temperature matters, but it is unlikely to be you're biggest issue when you're starting out. You almost certainly have one or more major (though possibly simple) issues that are dwarfing any temperature effect on flavor. You've got a way to hold a temp and that's great, so don't stop. But, you'll notice that none of the comments have focused on temperature. As long as you're avoiding the extremes, worrying about temperature comes later as you get more skilled.

Fourth, I'll just echo the comments on expiration dates. I have nothing to add there. Kits and cans of extract can sit on the shelves for a long time, if the shop mostly serves experienced home brewers or they've been shuttered from the pandemic.

Fifth. Water matters and just going by taste isn't really a good way to go. I suspect this is where the other half of your problems are. Find a reasonably comprehensive water chemistry report for your specific water source. Virginia Beach, presumably, but figure out where your water actually comes from. Water chemistry reports are almost always publicly available, though they aren't always detailed enough to tell you what you need to know. If this is your's (https://www.vbgov.com/government/de...ities/water-quality/Documents/2021CCR_Web.pdf), it doesn't really have all the information you'd like and seems to just be reporting ranges and averages and is missing some useful information. So, find a water chemistry analysis for your local tap water. Then, go online and find yourself a water chemistry calculator. I usually use the one on brewersfriend, but there are plenty out there. Compare what you have against what sort of water profile is the closest match for the style of beer you're going for. It really can make a huge difference. I had a similar issue in my first few brews and fixing my water is what made the difference for me. If you can't find a water chemistry analysis that contains the information you need to plug into the calculator, then consider building your water from the ground up with RO or distilled water and the appropriate salts. You mentioned your filtered tap water and the Walmart spring water tasting the same. There's an excellent chance that they are one and the same. An awful lot of bottled water is just filtered tap water, no matter what they call it. If you can find a local homebrewer that knows what they're doing, they may be able to tell you what the right fix for your water is. Mine just needs some gypsum. Your's? Who knows.

Last thought: If you can, find someone in your area that brews and watch them brew or (preferably) have them watch you. That includes bottling. You may be doing something incredibly simple to to fix, but it's a little hard to diagnose from a distance. There are many simple ways to screw up the flavor of what could have been a perfectly good beer. You may be doing something that you wouldn't even think to mention and we'd never think to ask about. If you can have someone watch you brew that knows what they're doing, you may save yourself a lot of headaches.

 

[RufusBrewer]

Buy a copy of Simple Brewing by Denny Conn & Drew Beechum. Learn what you can and apply the best practices that can apply o your Mr. Beer kit.

One tip is see if DME is a viable substitute for LME.

If you cannot get a copy of Simple Homebrew, get Complete Joy of Home brewing or John Palmer's Bow To Brew.

I recommend that if you want to make decent t beer, best to start thinking that a Mr Beer kit ain't going to get you there. Depends on how much time and money you want to put into the hobby.

 

[hout17]

I am in the get distilled water for your extract brews camp the extract already has the minerals as mentioned.

Also if you want to use your tap water get some campden tablets and crush half a campden tablet and add it to your brewing water before brewing (1/2 a tablet per 10 gallons). This will get rid of any potential chlorine or chloramines if they are present.

I would also recommend getting your water tested by Wards Lab then you can put those results on the forum and the experts can tell you if your water is good for brewing or if it needs treatment.

Don't give up I've brewed some great beer with extract. Maybe order a northern brewer kit and try that I've had very good luck with them.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Fifth. Water [...] Then, go online and find yourself a water chemistry calculator. I usually use the one on brewersfriend, but there are plenty out there. [...]

At the moment, OP is brewing with malt extract. The mineral composition of malt extract is known to vary noticeably based on the brand of the LME (see Brewing Engineering).

Do the latest version of water chemistry software include the various brands of DME/LME as ingredients?

 

[IslandLizard]

I would also recommend getting your water tested by Wards Lab then you can put those results on the forum and the experts can tell you if your water is good for brewing or if it needs treatment.

It's only a snapshot. One needs to make sure their water quality is fairly consistent, or that $40 test becomes meaningless quickly.

Unless you're on your own private well, call your water supplier's quality control department, and get the nitty gritty on their supply sources. They also have the mineral content numbers (the ones we brewers are interested in) for you and how they fluctuate from season to season or after heavy precipitations or during droughts.

 

[Wrinkle_Fever]

@GoodTruble When I ran my bottles thru the washer, I did not use soap during that cycle. I should have mentioned that. Just a hi-temp rinse with a heated dry.
@bmc1313 Sadly no, I don't know anyone local, aside from the fella at the LHBS.
As it stands, it seems the majority of everyone here has strong suspicions of my water. So while it was spring water from Walmart, I couldn't tell you what it's content was made of. On my next batch to start out, I'm going to just buy some RO water and start from there. At some point, yes, I will also go and get my own water tested.
I'm not sure what the expiration date was for my LME, but I had not considered that before. The LME came in just a plastic tub with no markings. I've got one more tub of this, for my next brew, but at this point I've been convinced to just get some DME and take it from there.
@bwible You also mentioned the multi packs of yeast or a starter. Until I can actually make a beer that I enjoy, I think I'll wait on trying to do a yeast starter, but would you suggest me using 2 packs if the beer is supposed to end in less than 6% ABV? High to me would have been 7%+

@NSMikeD A clone recipe is something that I want to do soon. And likely, should have tried sooner. You're completely right that I have no idea what these beers will taste like, and can really only speculate on what I think they should be like. Once I try brewing my last bit of ingredients I have, I'll look at that kit from NB.

@mendelec Thanks for the huge effort in your reply. I really appreciate it. To answer your questions, Yes, I have different equipment now. I don't use the MR Beer equipment at all anymore. It just sits on the shelf in the garage as a reminder that I can do better. I've got two of These. They come with O-Rings, and I'm pretty confident that they seal themselves off just fine. I've got the traditional S shaped airlocks with the rubber bung. I use an autosiphon and some tubing to transfer my beer from the primary into the second vessel. I don't ferment in this one, I just have a valve drilled into that that allows me to attach my bottling wand. Now that I just typed that out, I'm wondering if maybe I'm causing oxidation by transferring to the other vessel? I make sure that I'm not splashing, but, it is still open to atmosphere and oxygen at that point. Let's see..I've rigged up my fridge to be a ferm chamber, using a digital temp controller, a ceramic heat emitter, and an inline fan to push cold into the chamber if I need it. I use a propane burner with a turkey fryer pot to do my boil. (Prior to this brew, I had only used my stove top)
From now until who knows when, I will not be opening up the lid on the fermenter to check FG. I'll just leave my stuff in there for 3 weeks, and make the assumption that it's good and ready based on the activity in the airlock.

Thank you all for your words of support. I'm very optomistic again, and I'm ready to make some good beer. I'll get some DME to replace the current LME that I have on hand. I'll get a second pack of liquid yeast, and I'll get RO water.

Does anyone mind if I question about my next brew real fast? You've all opened my eyes so much, I'd like to have you take a look at this recipe, and tell me if anyone would suggest changing anything before I brew it, aside from what we just mentioned above (and I don't plan on putting it in the secondary) ^^ I've attached it to this post.

 

[Wrinkle_Fever]

And before I forget, where does everyone suggest getting their DME? I'm sure I could go to the LHBS, and I truly would like to continue to support them, but I'm also really desperate to make something I can be proud of, so if anyone has a great suggestion to offer, I'll happily jump on the idea.

 

[Dancy]

“I drink the water all day, and I had read that if I enjoyed it, it was likely fine for brewing.”
The above is one of the biggest fallacies in home brewing EVER, IMO — unless you’re just lucky to have good brewing water out of the kitchen tap. Even before I used pH measuring strips and then a good pH meter, I greatly improved my beers immediately with RO water and some basic mineral additions based on what I read.

 

[IslandLizard]

And before I forget, where does everyone suggest getting their DME? I'm sure I could go to the LHBS, and I truly would like to continue to support them, but I'm also really desperate to make something I can be proud of, so if anyone has a great suggestion to offer, I'll happily jump on the idea.

Unlike LME, DME is very stable. The largest packages I've ever seen on a shelf at a LHBS are 3# sealed bags, running around $4.00 a pound. They can last 10 years like that. Even when previously opened and resealed well.

I buy DME at a (semi-local) group grain buy for around $2.30/lb. Since our buys have become far less frequent, I stock up on grain and DME, and quite well at that.
We split 50# sacks of Briess Pilsen Light DME among those interested. I only use it for yeast starters, so 20-30# lasts a few years, in a sealed, screw lid bucket.

 

[MaxStout]

I don't know if it's been mentioned upthread already, but another factor to dial in better beer is the fermentation temperature. Check the temp range for whatever yeast you are using and try to keep the fermenter within that range. Especially during the first several days of fermentation. Fermentation generates heat, and the internal temp may be several degrees above the surrounding room temp. Get a $3 adhesive "fermometer" and stick it on the side of the fermenter. If the temps start creeping up you can keep the fermenter cool with water and ice packs. Look up threads for "swamp coolers" on this site.

 

[Knightshade]

<——I’ve got a sparkly new label, not solely due to this thread but it certainly contributed. Been tinkering on idea of upgrading past annual membership for a couple months now anyways.

Willingness to help on this forum has been aptly demonstrated here.

Ive only been brewing about a year or so, but the amount of info I’ve gathered via this forum has been pretty damn extensive. Not positive how long into my lifetime I intend to brew, but a resource like this place needs to stick around.

 

[Rodent]

lots of excellent advice here in this thread

OP - nice avatar

 

[Bobby_M]

@Bobby_M I did not realize that LME had such a short shelf life. That's a bit frustrating. I have another container of LME that I picked up at the same time for a Honey Brown Ale that I was hoping to make soon, but if the life is that short, then it's likely already too old and will taste weird. Also, why pitch multiple packs of yeast? I had mentioned this to the guy at the LHBS and he said that it would be pointless and I only need one. I'll happily pitch two if it will make my stuff taste better though.

If they are supplying you with a pack of dry yeast with the kits, one is enough. The recipe you posted along with this post has a White Labs liquid yeast pack. I'm sure the local guy means well (as would others on this site) to suggest one pack is enough but it's much more complicated than that. The date on the pack matters A LOT but even if it were packaged yesterday, one pack is not enough.


Here's a pitch rate calculator for a 1.057 OG with a 3 WEEK old pack, using BrewFather (but you can find free ones online as well). You can see it recommends 3 packs.

Here's the same screenshot with only one thing changed... I put the package date to 2 months old. This is still pretty conservative because small homebrew shops will still sell you a pack that is FIVE MONTHS OLD.... The calculator recommends 5 packs that are 2 months old. A 5mos old pack is down to 5% viability and you really wouldn't want to use it unless you build a healthy starter first.

There are going to be people who claim to make good beer with single pack pitches of even old packs. Good for them. They either don't know a bad beer when they taste it or they got very lucky once. My good friends, peers, and fellow homebrew club members who are all slaying the various BJCP comps in our area won't be bragging about how old of a yeast pack they got away with. Most of us make a 1-2 liter starter on a stir plate to get away with buying a single pack of yeast. If I'm really lazy for a brew, I'll grab two of the absolutely freshest packs out of the fridge because I own the homebrew store.


Ok... but WHY? There are a lot of thing that get affected by pitch rate (how many viable cells you pitch in a certain volume of wort at a certain gravity). Here's a quick paste right from White Labs:

HOW DOES PITCH RATE AFFECT MY BEER? Pitch rates make a dramatic difference in the final flavor and aroma profile of any beer. Ester production is directly related to yeast growth as are most other flavor and aroma compounds. A low pitch rate can lead to: Excess levels of diacetyl Increase in higher/fusel alcohol formation Increase in ester formation Increase in volatile sulfur compounds High terminal gravities Stuck fermentations Increased risk of infection

The infection risk comes from the longer lag time before the colony gets going. The longer wort sits before strong active fermentation, the more likely bacteria will outcompete it.

Diacetyl is certainly one big flaw but I find more bad beer has Acetaldehyde in it which tastes like raw pumpkin flesh and smells like green apples. Both of these compounds are normal in beer but the batches that end with a very healthy yeast colony consume it quickly. When you underpitch your yeast, it is utterly exhausted and drops out without cleaning up after itself. I even encourage the clean up process by warming the fermenter a couple degrees towards the end.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

When brewing with malt extract, if the water tastes good to begin with, the beer should taste good.

The above is one of the biggest fallacies in home brewing

But but but... it says that at howtobrew.com (the 1999 edition) as well as the 3rd edition (2006).

It's not until 4th edition (2017) that "distilled, RO, or low mineral spring water" (emphasis mine) is recommended.

Which makes sense - as the professional wort makers are taking the water out and leaving minerals behind. So putting back just the water (or the water with a small amount of minerals) would seem to be the best approach.

 

[Wrinkle_Fever]

@Rodent I agree, the amount of information that I have gotten from this thread has absolutely floored me. In the last week alone I have spent so much time crawling thru different threads on here and I have learned so much, it's outrageous. And that is a fantastic avatar pic as well. With so many wrinkles, you nearly have yourself a new best friend!

@Bobby_M These screenshots that you've posted have really given me a lot to consider. But everything makes sense. I don't know what the mfg date was for the yeast used in this beer, but I took a look at the other packet of yeast I bought that day, to go with the brown ale I want to do. As of today, it's about 3 months old, and according to the calculator, down to 38% viability. I did not know that this was a thing. I have since then watched quite a few videos on how to do the yeast starters and read up on the SNS method. Would you suggest doing a stir plate or the SNS for my starter? Also, if one pack of dry yeast is enough for a 5gallon batch, why does it seem like so many people are still using liquid yeast and making starters? One last question on this topic...The calc at brewers friend says I need to make a 2L starter, if I use one pack of liquid yeast for my next brew (OG 1.053). So I would make this starter the day before brew day? And then after I've cooled my wort and put it in my fermenter, what's next? Do I pitch a separate packet of yeast into the wort, and then wait until I'm at high krausen to pitch my starter in? That last part has really confused me and I haven't found an answer for yet.

 

[Bobby_M]

@Bobby_M These screenshots that you've posted have really given me a lot to consider. But everything makes sense. I don't know what the mfg date was for the yeast used in this beer, but I took a look at the other packet of yeast I bought that day, to go with the brown ale I want to do. As of today, it's about 3 months old, and according to the calculator, down to 38% viability. I did not know that this was a thing. I have since then watched quite a few videos on how to do the yeast starters and read up on the SNS method. Would you suggest doing a stir plate or the SNS for my starter? Also, if one pack of dry yeast is enough for a 5gallon batch, why does it seem like so many people are still using liquid yeast and making starters? One last question on this topic...The calc at brewers friend says I need to make a 2L starter, if I use one pack of liquid yeast for my next brew (OG 1.053). So I would make this starter the day before brew day? And then after I've cooled my wort and put it in my fermenter, what's next? Do I pitch a separate packet of yeast into the wort, and then wait until I'm at high krausen to pitch my starter in? That last part has really confused me and I haven't found an answer for yet.

Dry yeast remains viable for very long periods of time and one pack usually has the cell count to handle 5 gallons of 1.050 OG or lower. If you brew something that is known for its yeast character like Belgian or English, generally you want a little more "in process" yeast growth so I'd pitch one pack. If you want a neutral clean ferment (or the gravity is above say 1.060), two packs would be better.

People have gotten into a groove using liquid yeasts because until very recently there wasn't a one for one relationship between dry and liquid as far as strain availability is concerned. The other issue is that while you'll find crossovers, such as US-05 being a general equivalent to WLP-001 or Wyeast 1056, if you split a batch and fermented with all three of those yeasts you'd get 3 different beers. I've had success with dry yeast plenty of times but I tend to stick to liquids to stay sharp on yeast handling processes and it gives me the greatest strain versatility at all times. This is really a nit picky area of brewing though and sticking to dry yeasts to rule out other process flaws is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.


I personally use a stir plate, let it run for about 36 hours and then crash it in the fridge overnight to be able to decant off most of the spent beer. That stuff tastes nasty and I don't really want it in the final beer if I can avoid it. I take the flask out of the fridge carefully and pour off most of the clear beer. Then leave it out to warm while I'm brewing. You want it to be pretty close to your chilled wort temp to avoid thermal shock.

If the starter size is smaller (around 1 liter for 5 gallons) and/or the beer is strong flavored by design, I'll pitch the full starter save time. In that case it's usually about 24 hours on the stirplate so I'd make it the day before.

To be honest, usually the decision is based on how well I planned or how impromptu the brew session is. If I plan ahead, I make the starter 3 days early and do the crash/decant thing. If I plan ahead a little, I'll pitch the whole thing because I don't have time to cold crash, etc... If I don't plan at all, I'll pitch multiple packs of yeast and just spend that extra money to save time.

 

[Dancy]

It's not until 4th edition (2017) that "distilled, RO, or low mineral spring water" (emphasis mine) is recommended.

Big “Duh” on my part. The OP is using extract and my comment pertained to AG. ☺

[Fixed quoted text -Mod]

 

[IslandLizard]

Big “Duh” on my part. The OP is using extract and my comment pertained to AG. ☺

[Fixed quoted text -Mod]

Actually, using water with low mineral content pertains to extract brewing just as much, or even more.

In my early brewing days I was misled by Palmer's statement (in the 3rd Ed.) too. Luckily, we have very soft water in this area (low mineral content). That's probably why my extract and partial mash brews turned out quite OK. It wasn't until I went all grain (in 2013) when I started to read up on water, and it was here on HBT.

 

[Knightshade]

I've seen a couple comments in here about finding a local brewer w/more experience to either brew with, watch, or have them watch op. Couple Questions/Comments in regards to that.

Have you (op) watched or attended any of the live/recorded brewing sessions some of the brew tubers out there put on? It is a time commitment, but you might pick up some tips.

Covid not withstanding, have you looked into if any of your local craft beer or LHBS do interactive brewing sessions, classes, etc.? Feels like the craft brewery one is a little less common, but one of my mine (that sadly closed just this past month) did a monthly "Brew With Ben". He did a different beer every month and you had the opportunity to watch, ask questions and interact with the brewing process on their small batch system.

Finally..and just throwing this out there. I'm...less than 25 batches in and still figuring things out myself. However, I have some friends that are a couple of states over who have gotten into brewing as well. We probably started around the same time, I guess I just drink more? Hence..I've brewed more and definitely made alot more mistakes. Long story short, we've held Zoom sessions on occasion during any one of our brew days so we can BS, ask each other questions, do sanity checks, etc. Maybe host your own and see who would be willing to attend, or maybe somebody in here might be willing to host one?

 

[RufusBrewer]

If they are supplying you with a pack of dry yeast with the kits, one is enough. The recipe you posted along with this post has a White Labs liquid yeast pack. I'm sure the local guy means well (as would others on this site) to suggest one pack is enough but it's much more complicated than that. The date on the pack matters A LOT but even if it were packaged yesterday, one pack is not enough.

Here's a pitch rate calculator for a 1.057 OG with a 3 WEEK old pack, using BrewFather (but you can find free ones online as well). You can see it recommends 3 packs.

He's the same screenshot with only one thing changed... I put the package date to 2 months old. This is still pretty conservative because small homebrew shops will still sell you a pack that is FIVE MONTHS OLD.... The calculator recommends 5 packs that are 2 months old. A 5mos old pack is down to 5% viability and you really wouldn't want to use it unless you build a healthy starter first.

There are going to be people who claim to make good beer with single pack pitches of even old packs. Good for them. They either don't know a bad beer when they taste it or they got very lucky once. My good friends, peers, and fellow homebrew club members who are all slaying the various BJCP comps in our area won't be bragging about how old of a yeast pack they got away with. Most of us make a 1-2 liter starter on a stir plate to get away with buying a single pack of yeast. If I'm really lazy for a brew, I'll grab two of the absolutely freshest packs out of the fridge because I own the homebrew store.

Ok... but WHY? There are a lot of thing that get affected by pitch rate (how many viable cells you pitch in a certain volume of wort at a certain gravity). Here's a quick paste right from White Labs:

Yeast pitch rate calculations. Seems like there are a few different rule of thumbs, formulas, on line calculators. They seem come to the same conclusion, no matter how yeast you are pitching, you need to pitch more.

I recall some people making 5 liter starters because some web site calculated as such. There was a time home brewers calling Wyeast and White Labs frauds and criminals because it contradicted Mr. Malty.

It is my observation that home brewers tend to be absolutist about things. They hear what is optimum or best practice, and if you do not follow the concept, you beer will suffer greatly, be ruined it or taste like bath water.

Now we have the Shaken, Not Stirred (AKA 007) starter method. It does not seem to get much attention here on HBT. Maybe I do not frequent the correct subforum to see it.

From my perspective, the S,NS starter makes the most intuitive logic to me. Sort of accounts for everything that I understand about yeast.

Bobbie, do you have any experience with using Shajrn , Not Stirred starters.

 

[Bobby_M]

There was a time home brewers calling Wyeast and White Labs frauds and criminals because it contradicted Mr. Malty...

It is my observation that home brewers tend to be absolutist about things. They hear what is optimum or best practice, and if you do not follow the concept, you beer will suffer greatly, be ruined it or taste like bath water....

Now we have the Shaken, Not Stirred (AKA 007) starter method. It does not seem to get much attention here on HBT. Maybe I do not frequent the correct subforum to see it.....

I'm not a yeast expert but I've attended several talks given by Omega, Wyeast and White Labs techs and you will never hear that a single aging pack of yeast is good enough. It's kind of an unspoken dichotomy. At a product packaging and marketing level, a single pack of yeast is enough. Yeah, until you ask biologists working at the yeast labs specifically how much yeast you need. Well, it depends on gravity. It depends on pack age. It depends on intent. They likely find it impossible to reconcile the science with the product marketing and competitor sales trends.

In my 16 years of brewing, I've experimented with yeast pitch rates, cut corners, gotten lazy, made some absolute crap beers. I know that I'm making very good beers now, as are my friends, and we're all copying commercial pitch rates roughly approximated by the calculators. Of all the absolute retched beers I consume as a homebrew shop owner, there is a very high correlation with "good enough" aka, low pitch rates. It's not concrete causation.

The high krausen pitch starter is definitely something I do when I have a very healthy young pack of yeast but I have to try it more often.

 

[Upstate12866]

Definitely keep with it!

One more perspective. I started brewing because I really wanted to make my favorite beer. After several years, I've never been able to make that, or really anything like a commercial brew. I just digitized my notebook and I saw I'm 50+ brews into the hobby. Still trying to stay simple rather than buy a 500 dollar setup.

I found other versions of success. Like I can brew a lot faster than before (thanks to help from this forum), and I have learned enough about ingredients to save money by avoiding kits. I have also learned about a lot of styles and the history of brewing and the like. Easier to give a weird brownish brew to a friend when I have a story to share about it.

My good beers are about 7/10, and always just a bit odd, but I found a way to make it enjoyable enough. I'm OK with the restrictions I face based on my setup. Slowly my brews do get better, but I've never risen to commercial quality.

I will add another voice to the notion that all grain made a big difference for me in taste, color, and more. To learn a lot i recommend some very simple single malt and single hop brews that you can pin down and then branch out with variations. I find it very hard to make good porters, stouts, and complicated beers.

My local store sells fresh(ish) grain from 1.50/lb. With just a sock and a baggie of hops I can make an easy drinker at around 4 bucks a case. Smaller half-sized recipes make things go much faster too. This is all to say that ease of brewing (from learning more with time) and avoiding expensive explorations (kits) makes my 7/10 pale ales and lagers much easier to, um, swallow.

Also, I have more respect than ever for macro Miller, Coors and the like. It is hard as hell to brew clean tasting beers that keep well and come out the same each time. I encourage you to chase a couple sources of problems as you go, but these are like advanced TLC for your process and not "the answer." Eg, learn about oxidation and think about how you can minimize it, but expect just a (worthwhile) step in the right direction.

Try all grain! GL!

 

[GoodTruble]

I'm certain I'm delusional, but by Batch 5, I preferred my homebrew to more than half the commercial beers put there.

I've read on this site about a phenomenon wherein homebrewers' subconsciously adjust their expectations/tastes to prefer homebrew tastes and start to dislike commercial beer tastes. That switch flipped very quickly for me, and commercial beers now taste odd.

 

[Knightshade]

@Wrinkle_Fever Have you brewed that brown ale yet? In an effort to reduce complexity/variables until you get comfortable, have you considered just using dry yeast?

I'm less than 15 batches in and just took the dive on liquid yeast myself with a NEIPA that is currently in fermenter right now (also my first go w/that style). Just part of my progression anyways...went from pitching dry yeast from the bag, then took to consistently re-hydrating the dry yeast, and felt like I had enough of the other stuff under control to "tackle" liquid yeast. (although it seems like I still make plenty of mistakes during brew day...mostly because I've started doing recipes that require multiple hop drops, so more to keep track of...again, increasing complexity as time goes on)

 

[Brews and Blues]

I'm certain I'm delusional, but by Batch 5, I preferred my homebrew to more than half the commercial beers put there.

I've read on this site about a phenomenon wherein homebrewers' subconsciously adjust their expectations/tastes to prefer homebrew tastes and start to dislike commercial beer tastes. That switch flipped very quickly for me, and commercial beers now taste odd.

I feel like I am there too. Maybe its just the excitement of pouring my own brew, but right now I enjoy my own beer way more than commercial beers including some really good microbrews that used to be my go-to. Is it freshness? Or is it just because its mine? Not sure... but right now a lot of beer I am getting in store is tasting bland to me.

 

[eric19312]

I'd second and perhaps expand on @Knightshade 's advice. Use dry yeast until you are making pretty good beer consistently. Probably pick one and only one dry yeast and use it in everything you make for now. US-05 would be my choice but there are other good choices to consider. pay attention to things like pitch rates and fermentation temperatures. Stay away from lagers for now.

Maybe brew one gallon batches. This looks like James Spencer's hop sampler recipe.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/793838/hop-sampler
It is a pound of extra light DME, water to reach 0.75 gallons, heat to boil and turn off, add a few grams of hops, chill in a sink and pitch 2 grams US-05. This will make a six pack of decent beer if your ingredients are fresh (the hops and yeast mainly here since the extract is dry), your water is low mineral and not chlorinated, your sanitation practice is decent and you adequately control fermentation temperature. Get the process down on something like this and then start adding complexity. I'd give James another plug...go back and listen to podcasts in his archive.
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio

 

[Wrinkle_Fever]

Hey everyone,
Thanks again for all the support and all the knowledge bombs! I really can't express all my gratitude here. I'm looking through this entire thread and I've learned so much from everyone in such a short time.

@Knightshade Sadly, no. I haven't had a chance to brew that one yet. Work finally started to pick up a bit, so I haven't had a solid chance to do it. Also since we're on the topic...I bought the extract for that kit back in March of this year. I know one of the major topics during this thread was expiration dates and extract having a short shelf life. Think I should get new extract for this? It's been sitting in the cupboard, so it hasn't been exposed to any light (not sure if that matters). What you mentioned about the dry yeast is something that I had been thinking about over the last few days. I did a lot of reading on liquid yeasts and how to do starters, but also feel like if it's an acceptable strain for that beer style, then I might just use the dry yeast until I get consistent good beers. So the brown ale calls for WLP001 California Ale Yeast, which I have. Is there a dry yeast strain that you or someone else would suggest for that beer? I'd feel much more comfortable at this point just buying the dry. It seems no matter how often I risk it, I never get the biscuit. Oh, and I have watched quite a few brew sessions that I've came across on youtube. I haven't actually been to any classes myself yet. My LHBS was putting them on Pre-Covid, but has since stopped. Perhaps now that regulations are starting to lift they'll start back up. If they do, I'll be there in a heartbeat.

@GoodTruble I truly hope this is the case. I'll happily buy commercial beer to support the brewery's that I enjoy, but I also want to be able to drink my own and be just as happy. Although the first DFH 120 minute I had actually brought tears to my eyes. That'll be a tough one to top!

@Upstate12866 You're entire post had a ton of meaning to me. Thanks for taking the time to share your words. As I mentioned to Knightshade, I have a honey brown that I want to make, purely because I already have the steeping grains and the extract for it. As soon as I get that one wrapped up and in one of the fermenters, I plan to order the stuff to start doing BIAB. I don't have nearly enough room to be doing a full-blown AG setup, but from everything I've read, BIAB is just as good. I spent a few hours this morning researching SMaSH brews. A lot of people really seem to enjoy the Maris Otter & EKG brews, so that's going to be what I do next once I finish out the stuff I have on hand. I'm really excited about this. I hadn't considered doing those prior to your post, but now I'm looking forward to getting a good observation of the different flavors that everything can offer, without the complexity of it all being mixed up.

@eric19312 You know, me fumbling thru my Spotify and coming across Basic Brewing podcast was actually what really got me hooked. James Spencer does a phenomenal show and I always enjoy listening to him. I haven't caught completely up to where he is now with it, I think I'm still a few years behind on listening. But either way, I do enjoy it quite a lot. I have not done his hop sampler beers, but I'll add it to my list. Sounds like another fantastic way to really find out what/how everything tastes and how much I enjoy them.

@Bobby_M Thanks for answering my questions and concerns about the yeasts. It'll be just dry yeasts for me, at least for a little while. And two packs if my OG is over 1.060.

 

[Upstate12866]

You are the man for sticking with it!

One thing I've noticed as a frequent observer of this community... Everybody has their own opinion and lots of people would probably like you to view things their way. Sometimes people even argue (gently). But by god if you mention frustration or poor results we all align ourselves in a very wholesome way: "You're doing it wrong, I can't believe you aren't kegging, and you should really do all-grain...but don't STOP, are you crazy!?"

I have never heard anyone suggest that poor results are a reason to stop, and I imagine that's important for this and many other hobbies. Also why this community is so nice.