Feeling defeated

[VikeMan]

I don't have a specific study on the exact topic in the way you are requesting, but proton pump action of yeast in particular is well studied both in brewing and in model environments.

Hey man, I requested it the way you stated it. Perhaps that's the problem.

As @eric19312 says it will derail this thread to continue this discussion, so I will leave you to your own thoughts and opinions.

Anyway, for @Wrinkle_Fever I wouldn't be too concerned about pH and buffering with extract brewing. But RO or distilled water IMO make a lot of sense with extract, because the minerals from the extract manufacturer's water are in the extract. They are (usually) unknown, but the approach (RO/distilled with extract) has been working well enough for lots of extract brewers for a long time.

 

[tbaldwin000]

Hey man, I requested it the way you stated it. Perhaps that's the problem.

Yes, it probably is. I don't have a nice study to sum it up for you, but as I say the biological behaviour is well studied and understood, but you'd have to come to your own conclusions as there is no study whose abstract or conclusion will sum it up in the way that I did.

 

[VikeMan]

Yes, it probably is. I don't have a nice study to sum it up for you, but as I say the biological behaviour is well studied and understood, but you'd have to come to your own conclusions as there is no study whose abstract or conclusion will sum it up in the way that I did.

Okay.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

LME is a low grade and very variable product, and most certainly has a specific flavour which would run through all of your batches, owing to how it is made and stored.

I'm not sure how one can make (and support) that claim for all brands and styles of LME.

With regard to identifying stale ingredients, in the past, I've suggested resources (currently outside the things that get repeated here at Homebrew Talk) that could help brewers identify stale LME.

I don't have the time to repeat those resources here.

Maybe a sticky on the subject would be appropriate.

If you are using filtered tap water then I don't imagine that is your issue. Don't get me wrong, water chemistry is a deep and important topic in brewing, but I wouldn't really pay it much attention until you move to brewing with grain.

The makers of the DME/LME take just the water out - so it seems like the best approach would be to add back only water that is known to have no (or low) minerals.

This isn't water "chemistry" - just a "poka yoke"d approach to knowing that the right water source is being used to brew with DME/LME.

 

[ThatVideoKid]

The makers of the DME/LME take just the water out - so it seems like the best approach would be to add back only water that is known to have no (or low) minerals.

This isn't water "chemistry" - just a "poka yoke"d approach to knowing that the right water source is being used to brew with DME/LME.

This is correct. Extract already has minerals in it, so I always suggest using RO or distilled if your water contains significant amounts of anything.

I also assume its a fairly balanced profile, so you can still add a bit of sulfate or chloride to steer the beer, but I wouldn't add full mineral additions.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

you can still add a bit of sulfate or chloride to steer the beer, but I wouldn't add full mineral additions.

One can, many do, and some talk about doing it. It's a "season to taste" approach.

For me, the amount of additional brewing salts varies based on the brand of DME. Brewing Engineering has a couple of pages that provide some brand specific information. How to Brew, 4e, chapter 8 also some general information.

Over the past year, a couple of us have talked about "adding minerals in the glass" in a controlled manner, then using that information to "dial in" the brewing salt additions in the next batch. "State of the art" for this technique appears to be using three 4 oz pours - one for CaCl additions, one for CaSO4 additions, and one as a 'control'. I'm finding that one doesn't need to do this for every recipe - just cover the broad style groups ("Pale Hoppy", "Amber Malty", ...) for each brand of DME/LME.

edited for formatting.

 

[ThatVideoKid]

One can, many do, and some talk about doing it. It's a "season to taste" approach.

For me, the amount of additional brewing salts varies based on the brand of DME. Brewing Engineering has a couple of pages that provide some brand specific information. How to Brew, 4e, chapter 8 also some general information.

Over the past year, a couple of us have talked about "adding minerals in the glass" in a controlled manner, then using that information to "dial in" the brewing salt additions in the next batch. "State of the art" for this technique appears to be using three 4 oz pours - one for CaCl additions, one for CaSO4 additions, and one as a 'control'. I'm finding that one doesn't need to do this for every recipe - just cover the broad style groups ("Pale Hoppy", "Amber Malty", ...) for each brand of DME/LME.

edited for formatting.

Thanks, I didn't know there was any actual brand information out there for extract. I'll have to dig that up for the occasional times I use it.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I didn't know there was any actual brand information out there for extract

I'm not aware of any specific brand information (for example: Bora Bora Malting DME contains 734 ppm of S04). Both books I referenced talk about additions of CaS04 or CaCl in grams per gallon. It's not science-y, but it works.

 

[ThatVideoKid]

I'm not aware of any specific brand information (for example: Bora Bora Malting DME contains 734 ppm of S04). Both books I referenced talk about additions of CaS04 or CaCl in grams per gallon. It's not science-y, but it works.

Yeah that'll still be a better guideline than what I've currently been doing of just assuming its "pale balanced" and going from there.

Though I generally only use it for quick Berliners, which I don't really put any work into adjusting at this time.

 

[Transamguy77]

I read through most of this thread and my suggestion is to buy a kit from a big supplier, I totally get supporting local but sometimes it’s their kits and ingredients that can be older and cause an issue.

when I can‘t brew AG I look for deals from northern brewer, their kits are pretty solid and being that they are a large volume distributor their ingredients are pretty fresh. I’d give that a try to in case it’s the kits you’ve been buying.

 

[Wrinkle_Fever]

All,
I've gone ahead and brewed the Honey Brown Ale on 6/6 and pitched two packets of US-05 and used plain distilled water. OG was supposed to be 1.053, but I came out with 1.056; hopefully that's not much of an issue. Everything else went according to plan without any mistakes that I'm aware of. I've placed the fermenter into the fermentation fridge at 64 degrees F. Should I change that temp at all? If so, when and for how long? I had nice activity on 6/7 AM.
@Cammanron Thanks for the insight with your results using MB. I'm glad that other people noticed how they all seemed super similar. I'm thrilled to hear that by switching to BIAB you were able to consistently make great beer that you enjoy.
@satph I had actually seen that they were meeting. I had plans to go up and maybe sit in on their get-together and see if I could peel any words of wisdom from anyone's brain. Thank you for the suggestion though! A week ago, I had no idea there was a brewing club in the area.
@Transamguy77 My plan is to do some SMaSH brews after this brown ale recipe is completed, and then after that I will likely try a kit from one of the big suppliers just out of curiousity.

 

[Knightshade]

Smack dab in the middle of the recommended Ferm temp for that yeast, sounds like you'll do just fine. I usually let mine sit for 14 days and usually turn up the temp about 3-5 degrees after I notice activity slowing down a bit, which is usually between days 4-6.

Digging your plan on trying some smash brews too. @NathPowe has a Mosaic SMaSH that is pretty popular, and @Dgallo has a pretty simple base Pale Ale recipe for trying out different hops, give them a look.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/manwells-pale-mosaic-smash.420922/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/base-pale-ale-recipe-for-single-hop-beers.673718/

 

[Snark_Wolf_Brewing]

And before I forget, where does everyone suggest getting their DME? I'm sure I could go to the LHBS, and I truly would like to continue to support them, but I'm also really desperate to make something I can be proud of, so if anyone has a great suggestion to offer, I'll happily jump on the idea.

Welcome to Adventures in Homebrewing - What is your Adventure? <----- My LHBS. Their shipping is pretty reasonable. I've never had a problem with anything I've purchased there.

 

[hamachi]

OG was supposed to be 1.053, but I came out with 1.056; hopefully that's not much of an issue.

The expression I use when I am off by that amount from my target OG is: "Nailed it!" So, no, not an issue.

After your original post of despair, I am happy to see you have gotten back in the saddle.

 

[Transamguy77]

Welcome to Adventures in Homebrewing - What is your Adventure? <----- My LHBS. Their shipping is pretty reasonable. I've never had a problem with anything I've purchased there.

I posted earlier about Northern Brewer and their kits but I have spent almost the last $800 of everything else from these guys, great company to do business with and super fast shipping, I would highly recommend them.

 

[Cammanron]

Wow... $800 is alot of coin..

 

[Wrinkle_Fever]

@Knightshade That's what I was hoping to hear. So activity has practically come to a crawl, so I'll move the temp from 64 to 68 today and let it keep on. Thank you for those recipe suggestions. I swear, I've gotten so many different recipes on my "make it" list now that my wife is going to start questioning why I can't be happy with just one!

@Snark_Wolf_Brewing That's actually where I picked up my fermenters. I've only purchased equipment from them though, no ingredients as of yet. But I'm glad to hear you and @Transamguy77 speak highly of them. I'll certainly take a deeper look.
@hamachi Glad to hear it. I won't stress over a few missed gravity points. I'm really not too worried about what the abv is anyways. I just want the beer to be good enough to share without my friends making ugly faces at the taste or smiling while tears run down their cheeks...

Side note: Signed in as a guest last night at the local homebrew club meeting. They had a lot going on, so I didn't want to interrupt too much, but I was thrilled beyond reason to get to sit and listen to old and new brewers talk about their experiences, how they do things, what they do and don't worry about, and everything inbetween. Taking the trip out there was worth it.

 

[Transamguy77]

Wow... $800 is alot of coin..

Yes it is, that was over most of the past 10-12 months, we bought a house just over a year ago and we had some money budgeted for some beer stuff that I had been putting off until we were in so when I get back to brewing I’ll be ready!