Feedback on my first saison recipe?

[Halfakneecap]

So I've been considering brewing this next, but I'm still a bit worried about whether my BrewBelt will be enough to keep the fermentation temp around 77-79F. Things had suddenly warmed up and we had 77F to 79F weather outside, but then it got super cold and now it's in the mid to upper 30s outside again.

I bring this up for two reasons, though. One is that my wife acted pretty blown away when she was trying a saison I really like. But this made me realize something I hadn't considered before. The saison she was blown away is a more "modern saison." Still super dry with lots of "farmhouse" yeast character, but it uses American hops like Cascade. This suddenly made me wonder whether I should just go that route instead of the more typical saison hop route. Personally, I love both modern and traditional saisons, and my wife has shown a great enjoyment of both, but I've started to think that the times she's expressed how delicious a saison is have been way more common with American / New World hops.

Also, thinking of maybe brewing this ahead of time and maybe just letting it stay in the fermenter for 3-5 weeks before kegging, which is something I very rarely do nowadays, but I have an impression that saisons might benefit from "age" more than most of the styles I commonly brew nowadays.

I don't keg saison. I find age in the bottle makes a big difference. I like highly carbed, in a champagne bottle, which i think suits the style. Or at least, the way i like them. It's a broad style to say the least.

Definately think some age will make it better, so leave it a while for sure.

 

[worlddivides]

I don't keg saison. I find age in the bottle makes a big difference. I like highly carbed, in a champagne bottle, which i think suits the style. Or at least, the way i like them. It's a broad style to say the least.

Definately think some age will make it better, so leave it a while for sure.

I don't know if saison would be the style that would get me to re-buy all my bottling equipment and have to go through that annoying process all over again. Kegging has a lot of benefits, but the biggest benefit by far is not having to bottle. I'd definitely start bottling again for styles that I either don't want on tap or that would require aging to taste good such as Russian Imperial Stouts, barleywine, triple IPAs, and so on, but I don't have any plans to brew any of those styles in the immediate future. I'm thinking I'll just leave the saison on the yeast in the fermenter for some amount of time before kegging (but not so long as autolysis would kick in).


EDIT: Thinking about this some more, while I really do hate bottling, I've been doing 3-gallon batches nowadays as opposed to the 5-gallon batches I used to do, and I still will be doing kegging for most brews, so I thought it probably would be best to get bottling equipment for the beers that I'd prefer to age to some degree -- and saison is definitely one of those styles. So I ordered some bottles, caps, a capper, bottling bucket, bottle filler, and so on online.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I don't know if saison would be the style that would get me to re-buy all my bottling equipment and have to go through that annoying process all over again. Kegging has a lot of benefits, but the biggest benefit by far is not having to bottle. I'd definitely start bottling again for styles that I either don't want on tap or that would require aging to taste good such as Russian Imperial Stouts, barleywine, triple IPAs, and so on, but I don't have any plans to brew any of those styles in the immediate future. I'm thinking I'll just leave the saison on the yeast in the fermenter for some amount of time before kegging (but not so long as autolysis would kick in).


EDIT: Thinking about this some more, while I really do hate bottling, I've been doing 3-gallon batches nowadays as opposed to the 5-gallon batches I used to do, and I still will be doing kegging for most brews, so I thought it probably would be best to get bottling equipment for the beers that I'd prefer to age to some degree -- and saison is definitely one of those styles. So I ordered some bottles, caps, a capper, bottling bucket, bottle filler, and so on online.

Its pretty much the only style i bottle haha, I don't brew strong beers, and i definately hate bottling as well. I make the exception for saison haha

 

[worlddivides]

Its pretty much the only style i bottle haha, I don't brew strong beers, and i definately hate bottling as well. I make the exception for saison haha

I'm thinking I'll probably also bottle some regular-strength stouts and porters that I'd normally keg but that I think could benefit from some aging. But yeah, I hate bottling, so it'll just be a nice option to have for those kinds of beers.

 

[Indian_villager]

The recipe looks like it will make a beer and a good one at that, but you have to remember this whole thing is super subjective and really depends on what the individual calls a good time. Maybe it would help to understand what your goals are as far as flavors, looks, abv? Me personally, I'd ditch the Munich for some Vienna, and add some Flaked Rye. But that is because of the flavors I am gunning for.

 

[MikeCo]

I bottle Belgian ales to get high carbonation that doesn't work well in a keg system. I also bottle beers want to keep in my cellar for several months to age or just because it's not a I style I drink that quickly (high ABV beers). Saison is an appropriate style to bottle condition for the high carbonation, but I have always kegged my saisons because I usually drink them quickly. I just try to carbonate them as highly as possible without foaming problems at the tap.

 

[worlddivides]

I bottle Belgian ales to get high carbonation that doesn't work well in a keg system. I also bottle beers want to keep in my cellar for several months to age or just because it's not a I style I drink that quickly (high ABV beers). Saison is an appropriate style to bottle condition for the high carbonation, but I have always kegged my saisons because I usually drink them quickly. I just try to carbonate them as highly as possible without foaming problems at the tap.

Right. While saisons are one of me and my wife's favorite beer styles and I could easily see myself drinking quickly through a batch of 3.5% to 6.5% ABV saison, the main reason I've thought that it'd probably be better for bottling is just that I've heard and read that even lower ABV saisons can drastically benefit from age, with a lot of people saying that they start getting really good after 2, 3, or even more months in the bottle.

My favorite kinds of saisons (if Indian_villager is interested) are wild and sour saisons, and if I were to make those (which I don't plan on, at least not anytime soon), I'd definitely want them bottled instead of kegged. For a more table or standard ABV saison, I'd be pretty interested in kegging one if I had more than one keg, but I'm trying to prevent myself from getting another one, and bottling for stuff like this is a good compromise. The high ABV beers or more standard ABV beers that drastically benefit from aging (such as sours) kind of require bottling in my mind, though I know a lot of people keg them as well, especially people who have tons of kegs. Whereas these kinds of saisons could really be kegged or bottled.

Personally, I think kegging is more suited for the high carbonation typical of saisons. If I was kegging, I might go for a high CO2 volume than I'd go for bottling.

 

[DuncB]

I use a 2mm internal beer line and inline regulator to keep my kegged saison at 3.5 vols.
The line doesn't need to be that long with that diameter to get non foam pours.
It develops in the keg as it takes me a while to get through 20 litres.

 

[Halfakneecap]

Right. While saisons are one of me and my wife's favorite beer styles and I could easily see myself drinking quickly through a batch of 3.5% to 6.5% ABV saison, the main reason I've thought that it'd probably be better for bottling is just that I've heard and read that even lower ABV saisons can drastically benefit from age, with a lot of people saying that they start getting really good after 2, 3, or even more months in the bottle.

I definately notice a big difference when aged. More than any other style, apart from sour,brett etc beers.

 

[MikeCo]

I definately notice a big difference when aged. More than any other style, apart from sour,brett etc beers.

What differences do you perceive?

 

[Halfakneecap]

What differences do you perceive?

I find the flavours just meld together, and more flavours emerge. I just find the last end of the batch is always the best.

 

[DuncB]

What differences do you perceive?

With my Elderflower saison I find the elderflower becomes more obvious with time, whether bottled or in keg.

 

[worlddivides]

I brewed this yesterday (there are quite a few differences from the initial recipe I made, though, so I didn't make it exactly as it's written there). As the title and original post states, this was my first saison, but it's probably like my 20th Belgian beer I've brewed. At first I was surprised at how fast fermentation started and how ridiculously active it was, but then I thought A: I started at 76F and raised it to 79F, which is where I'm keeping the fermentation temperature with a temp controller, thermowell, and BrewBelt, and it only makes sense that yeast fermenting at 79F would be super fast compared to my more typical fermentation temperatures of 62-68F, and B: While it is my first saison, a Belgian yeast is a Belgian yeast (and MAN it does smell like a Belgian yeast, that's for sure), and the most aggressive and violent fermentations I've ever had have ALL been Belgian yeasts. Probably the most insane fermentation I've ever had was an abbey ale yeast that clogged up the airlock 2-3 times and might have caused an explosion (since it was a glass carboy) the first time. While all the Lallemand data says that banana esters (amyl acetate, I'd imagine) are more common on the low end of the fermentation range, I do smell quite a bit of banana coming from the airlock, even though I'm right in the middle of that range (the ideal fermentation range was given as 72F to 86F, so 79F is exactly in the middle). The gravity sample tasted amazing, but I expect the finished product to taste nothing like that, what with saison being such a yeast flavor-dominated style.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I use a 2mm internal beer line and inline regulator to keep my kegged saison at 3.5 vols.
The line doesn't need to be that long with that diameter to get non foam pours.
It develops in the keg as it takes me a while to get through 20 litres.

Where can I find 2mm id and related fittings? Thanks

 

[DuncB]

Where can I find 2mm id and related fittings? Thanks

I'll find a link, have replied without link in thread you mentioned.

 

[worlddivides]

The fermentation itself was basically finished in about 3 days, but I left the temperature at 79F until Day 5, then lowered it to 76F, then on Day 6 lowered it to 72F. I took a gravity sample and it's at 1.007, which is 85% attenuation. Since I'm not going to be kegging this but will be bottling it, I'm going to at least wait another day or two before cold-crashing, since there is a slight possibility it might get down to 1.006, though the listed attenuation range is 78-84%. That said, Brewer's Friend estimated an FG of 1.006 with a calculation of 82% attenuation, but Brewer's Friend's own ABV calculator says that 1.048 to 1.006 would be 87% attenuation.

Even though only about 1 week has passed since I pitched the yeast, the gravity sample tasted very... clean. Not "Chico" clean, but cleaner than any Belgian ale I've ever brewed before or any hefeweizen for that matter. It did have a slight banana and clove flavor, but overall it was just a pretty clean flavor. I imagine the flavor will change once the yeast falls out of solution and the beer matures, giving the flavors more of a chance to blend and develop. But I'm wondering what the benefit of keeping it in the fermenter will be instead of just cold crashing for several days and then bottling it and letting it carb and then mature in the bottles.

 

[Halfakneecap]

If you're bottling i think as long as you're comfortable with the FG i'd bottle. As you say it will mature in the bottle.

I think either way will be fine though

 

[worlddivides]

If you're bottling i think as long as you're comfortable with the FG i'd bottle. As you say it will mature in the bottle.

I think either way will be fine though

Since I really doubt the FG will fall any more than this and the main benefit of leaving it in the fermenter would be clarity, I started cold crashing yesterday and am planning to bottle tomorrow after it's been cold crashed for 48-60 hours. Most commercial saisons tend to not be particularly clear (probably mainly because they often contain wheat, oats, spelt, etc. which mine does not), but I do want to get as much yeast and hop matter out of it as possible before bottling, which cold crashing tends to do.

I'm using normal beer bottles, so I'm going to shoot for a carbonation level of around 2.6 or 2.7 CO2 volumes, though it's a bit difficult to estimate since it was at such a high temperature for all of fermentation and for a few days afterwards. I'm thinking 80 grams of table sugar should do the trick (for 11 liters of beer, which is how much I'm assuming will go into the bottling bucket).