Feedback on an imperial stout recipe

[EMH5]

I was planning on making a split batch Imperial Stout. Half with bourbon soaked oak cubes and the other with just oak cubes. 1 oz oak to 2.5 Gal. I have made an imperial brown before but not a stout so I was thinking of the recipe below – All feedback is welcome!

Dark Side of the Moon split batch stout

5.5 Gal batch
7.5 Gal boil
Boil time: 90 Min
Proj eff~ 70%

SRM: 33.97
OG: 1.095
FG: 1.024
ABV: 9.37%

Grain Bill
7.5 # Maris Otter
7.5 # 2-row
.8 # C60
.2 # C120
.5 # Oat Malt
.5 # Golden Naked Oats
.5 # Chocolate
.25 # Roasted Barley
.25 # Midnight Wheat
.8 # Flaked Barley
1 # Brown Sugar
19.8 #

@ Hop Amt
60 Columbus 1
5 Columbus 1

Yeast – 1318

I am splitting this batch.
#1. Add 1 oz of bourbon soaked oak cubes
#2. Add 1 oz steamed oak cubes

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Few things stand out.

1. That's way too small roasted grain percentage for an imperial stout. I'm calculating 3.7%. Take a look at this article called Building a Behemoth. I'd get up to at least 10% for your roasted barley/chocolate portion if I were you.

http://tobrewabeer.com/index.php/2016/02/10/building-behemoth-grains/

2. What is your IBU? I'd get at least 60 for that big of a beer.

3. Are you sure you can get 70% efficiency with a big beer like that? I scale down to 50% when I go that big because efficiency normally drops with beers that size. Are you boiling for 2 hours? That helps because then you're able to extract more wort out in your sparge which will help efficiency.

4. Have DME on hand and take a preboil OG as well as a reading about halfway through to see where you're at.

5. Why the brown sugar or midnight wheat?

6. What mash temp?

 

[EMH5]

Few things stand out.

1. That's way too small roasted grain percentage for an imperial stout. I'm calculating 3.7%. Take a look at this article called Building a Behemoth. I'd get up to at least 10% for your roasted barley/chocolate portion if I were you.

http://tobrewabeer.com/index.php/2016/02/10/building-behemoth-grains/

2. What is your IBU? I'd get at least 60 for that big of a beer.

3. Are you sure you can get 70% efficiency with a big beer like that? I scale down to 50% when I go that big because efficiency normally drops with beers that size. Are you boiling for 2 hours? That helps because then you're able to extract more wort out in your sparge which will help efficiency.

4. Have DME on hand and take a preboil OG as well as a reading about halfway through to see where you're at.

5. Why the brown sugar or midnight wheat?

6. What mash temp?

All legit questions! Alright…
1. I didn’t know. I'll take a look at the article and I’ll probably bump up the dark malt then. I made a stout like Brown before using a grain bill similar to this one but suggestions like this help me finalize my recipe.
2. IBU – I was aiming for 60-70. I was going to pick up 3 oz of Columbus and possibly add a 3rd addition to the mix. Definitely at 60 and 5.
3. I didn’t know that. I can bump the grain bill up. Should I project more at 60%? I don’t want to go too big… Aiming for a 9-10% but not over 10%. 9-9.5% would be perfect.
4. I always take a preboil OG plus I do have DME on hand, for starters but I do have it.
5. I love the flavor brown sugar adds – a rummy toffee flavor that goes well with darker beers. Midnight wheat is also great for color and head retention.
6. I was thinking 155.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

All legit questions! Alright…
1. I didn’t know. I'll take a look at the article and I’ll probably bump up the dark malt then. I made a stout like Brown before using a grain bill similar to this one but suggestions like this help me finalize my recipe.

Definitely read the article, especially the grain section. It really helped me out when designing my first big RIS last year, and it turned out great.

2. IBU – I was aiming for 60-70. I was going to pick up 3 oz of Columbus and possibly add a 3rd addition to the mix. Definitely at 60 and 5.

Yeah that'll work just fine.

3. I didn’t know that. I can bump the grain bill up. Should I project more at 60%? I don’t want to go too big… Aiming for a 9-10% but not over 10%. 9-9.5% would be perfect.

I would just in case. It's way easier to work with too high an OG than too low in my opinion. I run about 65% on normal beers and drop my recipe to 50% for big beers like this and it works out great. I highly recommend planning for a 2 hour boil, that will allow you to sparge with alot more water and you'll get way more sugars out of it than a normal hour worth volume of sparge.

4. I always take a preboil OG plus I do have DME on hand, for starters but I do have it.

Yep always a safe precaution. I read alot of threads where people complain about poor OG, but didn't take a preboil OG. There's no surprises if you take the preboil reading, and then you can adjust with DME is you're off. However if you drop efficiency in your recipe and boil for 2 hour, I can almost assure you you'll be close to spot on.

5. I love the flavor brown sugar adds – a rummy toffee flavor that goes well with darker beers. Midnight wheat is also great for color and head retention.

Midnight wheat will get lost in this recipe, especially once you increase your roasted grains, but it won't add anything negative to the beer so add away.

6. I was thinking 155.

155 is definitely the highest you want to go. Big beers like this don't need a super high mash temp to achieve a thick mouthfeel most desire, the ridiculous amount of grain does that for you. I usually mash around 152 and have mashed as low as 148 and always finish around 1.015-1.020

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

The best part about beers this big is that if you're off by a few points either way, no big deal. Also oxygen and a huge yeast starter are very important. Do you have an oxygen tank/stone? If so add oxygen for 60 seconds post wort chilling, and again 18 hours into fermentation. If not, you'll need to shake the crap out of it until your arms want to fall off, and then continue shaking.

I will say that as the recipe is constructed now, there isn't enough roasted grain to deliver that big knockout punch of bad-assery that most desire in a RIS. I'd aim for 2.5lbs combined roasted barley/chocolate malt. That's 10% of a 25lb grain bill, assuming you're also going to up the base grain to account for lower efficiency. That's right in the wheelhouse of a classic imperial stout.

 

[EMH5]

The best part about beers this big is that if you're off by a few points either way, no big deal. Also oxygen and a huge yeast starter are very important. Do you have an oxygen tank/stone? If so add oxygen for 60 seconds post wort chilling, and again 18 hours into fermentation. If not, you'll need to shake the crap out of it until your arms want to fall off, and then continue shaking.

I will say that as the recipe is constructed now, there isn't enough roasted grain to deliver that big knockout punch of bad-assery that most desire in a RIS. I'd aim for 2.5lbs combined roasted barley/chocolate malt. That's 10% of a 25lb grain bill, assuming you're also going to up the base grain to account for lower efficiency. That's right in the wheelhouse of a classic imperial stout.

Alright. This information is extremely helpful. I am cautious on how much roasted grains I add to the bill but I bumped it to 8.8%

base malt 79.2% MO & 2-row 18#
roasted malt 8.8% chocolate .75, RB .75, Midnight Wheat .5 (midnight wheat is roasted), .25 Carafa III - 2.25#total roast malt
crystal malt 4.4% C60 .5, C120 .5
flaked grain 7.7% flaked barley 1#, flaked oats .75#

I think I'll also bump the Columbus hop additions to 1.5 oz each @ 60 & @ 5

What do you think? better?

Also - I don't have oxygen - I shake. So you are saying I'll have to shake not only before I add the yeast but while it's first fermenting as well?

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Alright. This information is extremely helpful. I am cautious on how much roasted grains I add to the bill but I bumped it to 8.8%

base malt 79.2% MO & 2-row 18#
roasted malt 8.8% chocolate .75, RB .75, Midnight Wheat .5 (midnight wheat is roasted), .25 Carafa III - 2.25#total roast malt
crystal malt 4.4% C60 .5, C120 .5
flaked grain 7.7% flaked barley 1#, flaked oats .75#

I think I'll also bump the Columbus hop additions to 1.5 oz each @ 60 & @ 5

What do you think? better?

Also - I don't have oxygen - I shake. So you are saying I'll have to shake not only before I add the yeast but while it's first fermenting as well?

Looks great. Imperial stouts are a challenge for sure, but I think you're in a good place. Unless you're turned off by the flavor of roasted barley/chocolate malt, don't fear 8.8%. You'll be just fine with that.

Yeah nothing wrong with a late addition of columbus. Over time that flavor will fade which is OK. It's more about balancing the IBU's with the crazy amount of grain which you've done.

That's ok about the oxygen, just make sure you pitch about 350 billion + cells. If you shake the crap out of it you should be just fine. I am not aware of whether it's OK to shake it 18 hours into fermentation or not. I know that adding direct infused oxygen is OK, but I don't want to give you bad advice and say it's also OK to shake it when I am not sure.

Can't think of much other advice wise. I brew 2 imperial stouts a year, trying to perfect the style. It's a fun and challenging style to brew. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

 

[EMH5]

Looks great. Imperial stouts are a challenge for sure, but I think you're in a good place. Unless you're turned off by the flavor of roasted barley/chocolate malt, don't fear 8.8%. You'll be just fine with that.

Yeah nothing wrong with a late addition of columbus. Over time that flavor will fade which is OK. It's more about balancing the IBU's with the crazy amount of grain which you've done.

That's ok about the oxygen, just make sure you pitch about 350 billion + cells. If you shake the crap out of it you should be just fine. I am not aware of whether it's OK to shake it 18 hours into fermentation or not. I know that adding direct infused oxygen is OK, but I don't want to give you bad advice and say it's also OK to shake it when I am not sure.

Can't think of much other advice wise. I brew 2 imperial stouts a year, trying to perfect the style. It's a fun and challenging style to brew. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

Thanks! And I appreciate all your feedback. one question - I typically harvest yeast (Wyeast 1318), store in a mason jar, build a starter and pitch while fermenting... I don't measure the yeast but I eyeball the yeast amount while storing... My question is - should I double my yeast amount (2 small mason jars) or double the DME/stater amount to build one mason jar of yeast?

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Thanks! And I appreciate all your feedback. one question - I typically harvest yeast (Wyeast 1318), store in a mason jar, build a starter and pitch while fermenting... I don't measure the yeast but I eyeball the yeast amount while storing... My question is - should I double my yeast amount (2 small mason jars) or double the DME/stater amount to build one mason jar of yeast?

I would double the DME/starter amount just so you can get them woken up and ready to perform the monumental task you're asking of them.

Wyeast 1318 is a complete beast too, you should have no problems getting to where you want to be with that yeast.

 

[EMH5]

Finalized recipe-thoughts? I'm aiming for about 10% ABV and assuming about 59% efficiency.

Grain
10# Maris Otter
10# 2-row
.8# Chocolate
.8# Roasted Barley
.5# Midnight Wheat
.25# Dehusked Carafa III
.6# C60
.3# C120
1# flaked barley
.75# golden naked oats
25#
1# brown sugar @ 10 min

Wyeast 1318

1.5 oz Columbus @ 60
1.5 oz Columbus @ 10

90 min boil

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Very nice.

 

[EMH5]

Very nice.

I haven’t brewed this yet, but I’ve had a few imperial stouts looking for inspiration and Great Divide’s Yeti was probably the best stout I’ve had (I would consider myself lucky if I was able to replicate that beer). So since then I’ve been trying to tighten this grain bill, remove the brown sugar and I’ve come up with:

9.5 # Maris Otter
9.5 # 2-row
1 # flaked oats (toasted in oven)
1 # flaked barley
.5 # C120
.75 # roasted barley
.75 # chocolate
.5 # black patent
.5 # Carafa III
.25 # midnight wheat

So this breaks down to

78% base
2% crystal
8% flaked
12% roast

Any suggestions?

 

[Redlantern]

As a question - is there any real chance of tasting the Maris Otter in that? A lot of specialty malts with a lot of body and roasted flavors. Seems a few $$ could be saved with all two row instead of a split on the base malt

 

[Yalc]

FWIW I made a great stout recently with Pilsner as100% of the base. It was all I had. Turned out great.

 

[EMH5]

As a question - is there any real chance of tasting the Maris Otter in that? A lot of specialty malts with a lot of body and roasted flavors. Seems a few $$ could be saved with all two row instead of a split on the base malt

You may be right but I love the richness of MO. Even if I get only a hint of richness or breadiness, I'll be happy.

 

[EMH5]

Any comments or suggestions about grain bill? Curious because this is my first attempt at a stout.

I don't want a sweet stout. I want something like a yeti

 

[Redlantern]

Well - sweet is not a problem if you get your yeast right. Not a lot of anything sweet there. If you mash lower and get good attenuation, sweetness will not be an issue. Granted a sweet stout as far as I know refers to one where lactose is used - but that probably is not what you are talking about.

Black patent and Carafa III is maybe a little redundant. Could probably sub out one.

Midnight wheat with all of the 500+ linter stuff you have will also be buried.

All that being said - no issue with grain bill. It will work and probably pretty well.

Properly attenuated, it will be anything but sweet.

 

[EMH5]

Well - sweet is not a problem if you get your yeast right. Not a lot of anything sweet there. If you mash lower and get good attenuation, sweetness will not be an issue. Granted a sweet stout as far as I know refers to one where lactose is used - but that probably is not what you are talking about.

Black patent and Carafa III is maybe a little redundant. Could probably sub out one.

Midnight wheat with all of the 500+ linter stuff you have will also be buried.

All that being said - no issue with grain bill. It will work and probably pretty well.

Properly attenuated, it will be anything but sweet.

Last year I mixed 1318 and Conan (gigs yeast) and have been harvesting and using this blend for all my beers... attenuates about 80%+ and I love this yeast.